Well Boys,
D-Day today for our friends in Croke Park this evening. The 5 appeals go before the past presidents to see if the motion to open Croke Park will be raised in Congress in April.
For the 2nd year running the submissions were found to be "flawed" and final decision will be taken tonight.
This topic has been discussed to death. The GAA will do what the GAA will do but the fact remains that if these applications are rejected, the FAI/IRFU will have no option but to go abroad to play their games until Lansdowne has been redeveloped.
While the fans will have tho suffer the financial hardship of having to travel long distance to support their respective codes for "home" internationals, I feel the biggest losers in this will be the players.
We have potentially the most successful groups of talented individual youngsters in both soccer and rugby, the majority of whom were born and bred on this island, who would have played soccer, rugby, hurling and gaelic football in their early days. Who can tell what impact this will have on these sporting bodies on what should be their glory years.
It seems to me that in a "holier-than-thou" manner, the GAA Godfathers of today are telling these ambassadors that theyre not as Irish as themselves. Im sure the original founders of the GAA would turn in their graves at the notion that an Irishman would be turned away from representing their country in any sport by a fellow countryman. The first GAA meeting made no reference to hurling or football and concentrated on Athletics and the revival of the Tailteann Games. It was organised in an inclusive manner with support received from the organiser of the Caledonian Games and similar organisations from Wales.
The GAA have an oppurtunity to make many friends or a horrendous mistake. Lets hope sense prevails. To the future...
Who is this guy, Trapper Tony?
Have to disagree - on the most part (Bar eL games) both sports are happening in eachothers off seasons. Cant see it causing revenue loss - especially when the GAA would be payed handsomly for the use of a stadium that would otherwise be sitting there earning nothing. Opening Croker is good for everyone, except the narrowminded.Originally Posted by Conor74
Resign, now!
The GAA have made no bones about the fact that this is not about money. They are quiet prepared to foot the redevelopment bill without the aid if the FAI. Past President Peter Quinn spoke quiet candidly on Primetime not so long ago and went to great lenghts to point out that soccer was a 26 county sport and under that condition he would not support its appearance in Croke Park. By the same addmission he had no objection to rugby being played there. Corke Park is a political vehicle being driven by a power weilding minority and being chased down the road by a nation that wants change, both in the sporting and political sense. I say to them...put it to the floor and leave the decision lie with those who represent the participating players around the land. The GAA players are the juice that makes the organisation run. Let them speak.
Before you assume that Im a GAA basher, Im not. While I play junior soccer, follow an EL club and The Republic of Ireland. I have played Hurling and Gaelic Football and rugby. I will also follow Kerry Football, Kilkenny and Waterford Hurling every year throughout the winter and summer. My investment in GAA both in time and money gives me a voice like the coutless thousands who are just like me in this country who have done likewise.
Who is this guy, Trapper Tony?
That's the biggest load of cobblers I've heard in a long time!
"Soccer" is going to be big in Ireland regardless of where the national team play. Playing in Lansdowne Road restricts access and therefore makes the fixtures more desireable because demand far outstrips supply.
If the GAA are indeed thinking as a business, as you would have us believe, then surely they can appreciate the monetary gains possible as a result of rent paid by other national sporting organisations.
If anything, the GAA are seen by many as bigots due to their outdated rules and are doing themselves no favours with potential international sponsors.
Stand Up - Speak Out!
Have Boot Disk, will travel
Whats the point when they have sectarian rules in place? Even if the FAI offered them €10 million a game, the more enlightened in the GAA wouldn't be in a position to accept it as it's against their rule book. In the meantime, no doubt the Government will hand up their no strings attached chequebook.
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
If an office block management company had a rule stating that no IT Professionals were allowed to use the building, I wouldn't waste my time asking them if I could rent some office space.
Have Boot Disk, will travel
House has to be on the market first pal.
Resign, now!
What ructions? In a previous congress, the 2/3s majority needed to overturn the motion was 1 vote short.
66% in any election would be considered a landslide victory. In GAA terms its a loophole for ignoring the popular consensus.
Last edited by blobbyblob; 15/02/2005 at 11:25 AM.
Who is this guy, Trapper Tony?
I was always kinda 50 50 on this debate...
I always thought the FAI should pull the finger out and sort out getting a proper international stadium...
BUT if the GAA are allowing a bloody U2 concert to be in Croker they can not really put up a reasonable argument as to why the soccer or Rugby can't play there...
Unless there expecting U2 to sing all there songs as Gaeilge...
I agree with Conor74 the GAA clubs shouldn't have to suffer in order for foot to be played there, why should they....
If the soccer\rugby supporters ect wanted to do something they could organise there own strike and picket the GAA offices or Croker on a match day... There's plenty of things that can be done it just needs a bit of imagination the FAI look like they are just sitting back and waiting for it to fall on there laps
Nobody will suffer - strike is not the answer. I wouldn't expect you to go on strike for me if i was having a dispute at work! The key to this issue is tonights decision. If it doesnt go our way (which is highly likely) then we are reduced to playing 'home' internationals in the UK. This is sewn up by the GAA heirarchy. I'd like to know why this committee is comprised of the current GAA president and 'all living past presidents'?? No motion would get through that. Today, Sports development in Ireland is in their hands and i feel they are too set in their ways to see the enormous benefits that opening croker would bring.
Resign, now!
The FAI and IRFU would make far more money playing in England than they would at Lansdowne, so bring it on. When the new Lansdowne is opened, the two associations will come back stronger financially, with the good will of more of the people of the country. It'll be an embarrassment, sure, but let all the ire fall back to the GAA and the Governments that have been happy to fund them (or bribe them to keep it closed in one particular case).
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
If the F.A.I. or the IRFU asked it would embarrass the GAA hence they don't.
It does appear that there is nothing in the GAA rules to prevent football from being played in Croke Park. however there is no way any GAA central council will sanction that without a vote at their congress.
There is no evidence that I'm aware of that Mulvihill is one of the bigots. He is quite an able operator and indeed was at the 1998 World Cup final on an F.A.I. ticket while there were GAA matches on back home. A friend of a friend used to manage Irish teams and couldn't get a ticket from the F.A.I. for that match and apparently was raging when he saw who got the tickets.
Mulvihill did help draft one of the motions that failed though so it's hard to know.
The real hardliners are Quinn, Fanning, Bootham, McCague and Con Murphy and possibly a couple more of the past presidents. Frank Murphy in Cork is another hardliner with the rest of the county board outdoing themselves to curry favour with him eg Dan Hoare "wouldn't let them into the carpark", John Motherway "men of 1916 etc etc".
Ultimately the GAA have a right to do what they like with their facilities. However this economy will lose hundreds of millions of euro if home rugby and football Internationals are moved abroad. The government should intervene at that stage and stop handing out money hand over fist to the GAA. Furthermore Diageo and Bank of Ireland and other main sponsors should be made aware of their customer's concerns re supporting such a sectarian organisation. Many people believe that Linfield ended their unwritten policy of not signing Catholics after pressure or assuemd pressure from Coca Cola among others. Any perceived sectarianism at Linfield is much more evident in the GAA which is openly and blatantly sectarian and openly supported Republican terrorists long before any hint of a ceasefire. Everyone knew what they meant when the said they support "the struggle for national liberation" and that came from the poor downtrodden and oppresed nationalist folk of Clare.
Although its not a avenue that would be first on my list, could the government intervene to exercise the constitution.
Article 43
1. 1° The State acknowledges that man, in virtue of his rational being, has the natural right, antecedent to positive law, to the private ownership of external goods.
2° The State accordingly guarantees to pass no law attempting to abolish the right of private ownership or the general right to transfer, bequeath, and inherit property.
2. 1° The State recognises, however, that the exercise of the rights mentioned in the foregoing provisions of this Article ought, in civil society, to be regulated by the principles of social justice.
2° The State, accordingly, may as occasion requires delimit by law the exercise of the said rights with a view to reconciling their exercise with the exigencies of the common good.
This leads onto
DIRECTIVE PRINCIPLES OF SOCIAL POLICY
Article 45
The principles of social policy set forth in this Article are intended for the general guidance of the Oireachtas. The application of those principles in the making of laws shall be the care of the Oireachtas exclusively, and shall not be cognisable by any Court under any of the provisions of this Constitution.
1. The State shall strive to promote the welfare of the whole people by securing and protecting as effectively as it may a social order in which justice and charity shall inform all the institutions of the national life.
2. The State shall, in particular, direct its policy towards securing:
i. That the citizens (all of whom, men and women equally, have the right to an adequate means of livelihood) may through their occupations find the means of making reasonable provision for their domestic needs.
ii. That the ownership and control of the material resources of the community may be so distributed amongst private individuals and the various classes as best to subserve the common good.
iii. That, especially, the operation of free competition shall not be allowed so to develop as to result in the concentration of the ownership or control of essential commodities in a few individuals to the common detriment.
Who is this guy, Trapper Tony?
English-Irish dictionaries are to blame - thats why Croker aint open.
Resign, now!
From todays Independant
[SIZE=2]Day of reckoning for Croker [/SIZE]
Tuesday February 15th 2005
Kelly faces huge test as past-presidents go through the motions
SEÁN KELLY faces the biggest test of his GAA Presidency today when he chairs a crucial meeting of the Motions Committee which will decide if there is to be a debate at Congress in April on whether Croke Park should be rented to the IRFU and FAI for rugby and soccer internationals.
Eleven motions calling for a change of policy regarding the use of Croke Park have already been ruled out of order on technical grounds by the Motions Committee, who will now consider the re-submitted versions.
The eyes of the entire Irish sporting public will be focussed on the 12-man committee today as they study the amended motions, which have been very carefully drafted.
However, since the committee didn't specify precisely what was required to put the proposals in order, there is no guarantee that they won't reject them again.
Many counties understood that a decision taken at Special Congress last October meant that when a motion was deemed out of order, assistance would be provided to regularise it. However, that has not proved to be the case, leading to claims that the GAA's democratic structure is being undermined by a high-powered minority.
Former GAA President Jack Boothman angered many counties by remarking in an interview last week that the Motions Committee weren't going "to do all the homework for people who have had the past year to get their motions in order".
He also questioned the efficiency of those who submitted the motions. "What surprised me most is how some people are saying it's difficult to write proper motions. There have been huge, huge changes to the Association over the past 15 or 20 years and they were all brought about in the same fashion. So why should it be so difficult now? Are we getting a lesser type of official? It would be horrifying to think they don't even know the rules."
However, counties like Roscommon, Clare and Laois who have been to the forefront of the call to change Rule 42, have queried why there was no difficulty putting similar motions before Congress in 2001 and 2002.
Tommy Kenoy said that Roscommon had worked extremely hard on the re-submitted motion in an effort to have it accepted, but admitted they were uncertain if it would be deemed in order because they hadn't been informed what the Motions Committee wanted.
"We were told that as well as changing Rule 42, Rules 3, 4, 5, 43, and 44 needed to be amended. However, crucially we weren't told the precise amendments that were required," he said. "All we can do now is hope that in the interests of democracy and fair play, our motion is given a chance to be debated, as per the wishes of the Roscommon Convention," he said.
The other ten counties who submitted motions on Rule 42 are in a similar situation as they await the deliberations of the Motions Committee. It's a tense time too for Seán Kelly, who has been a long-time advocate of opening up Croke Park.
It would be a severe blow to his presidency if, for the second successive year, he failed to sway the Motions Committee into accepting proposals to discuss Rule 42.
"It's my view that the matter should be discussed at Congress," he said. "Obviously, motions calling for change have to be in order, but it's clearly the will of many counties that the use of Croke Park be debated in a calm, orderly fashion by Congress. I would have thought that in the interests of democracy, we have a duty to facilitate that debate," said Kelly.
The members of the Motions Committee are: Seán Kelly, Liam Mulvihill, Seán McCague, Joe McDonagh, Jack Boothman, Peter Quinn, Dr Mick Loftus, Paddy Buggy, Paddy McFlynn, Con Murphy, Pat Fanning, Seamus Ó Riain.
Martin Breheny - Irish Independant 15/02/05
Who is this guy, Trapper Tony?
OK - this can go two ways, for and against.
Assuming the relevant rules are ammended, what kind of time frame do the FAI have to get in there with a proposal signed sealed and delivered?
If the rules arent changed, what then for Irish footy and rugby until the Lansdown is decorated? Millennium Stadium?
Resign, now!
could be wrong, but I thought the FAi said they would only make such an approach IF the GAA made a decision first, because they didn't want to put any pressure on them.
According to the LRSDC (Lansdowne Rd Stadium Development Committee, not to be confused with the Lakes Region Sleigh Dog Committee, NH) website..Lansdowne has fixtures pencilled in all the way up to 27th November 2005.
I would assume that the stadium will close for development following that.. i could be wrong.
Who is this guy, Trapper Tony?
the stadium will have to close fully for a minimum of 2 years and possibly more. lansdowne is a very tight site in a residential area so wont be an easy stadium to construct. i wouldnt be shocked if it took as much as 3 years to fully complete. it'll be late 2006 at the earliest before work starts and thats assuming theres no serious planning issues
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