Ireland v England 1995

[lopez]

They should have used live bullets on the b***ards, and asked questions later.

Funny, but wasn't there an IRA ceasefire on in 95 and not one in 1990 when the c*nts were far better behaved.

[dcfcsteve]

The incidents in Paris were between some Moselm youths and some Irish fans. French were not involved.

So none of the 5m+ Muslims (note the spelling) in France are French then......?

On the 95 game, the English fans started the trouble straight after we scored, which was their pre-arranged signal. Although I don't usually dig police brutality of any sort, I'm glad the Gardai battered the English fans in this instance as the legal system would just have held them overnight and released them the next day to fly home as heroes.

However - I would say that the Gardai are by and large just a bunch of messers, with no air of authority in general and zero notions on crowd control in particular. Not in any way an impressive police force, and they pale in comparison to any other police force I've experienced in the First World. The Police in England/the US etc leave you in no doubt who's in control, purely by how they handle themselves. The Gardai I always find difficult to take seriously at all.

[WeAreRovers]

aye by beating up black people, and the latter by throwing innocent people in jail. tthats a load of cac.

That goes on here as well - just ask the family of Dean Lyons.

Our cops have all the bad characterisitics (corruption, incompetence, arrogance) of other police forces but none of the professionalism that enables the police to keep people safe.

KOH

[Eire06]

Think you’re all being a bit hard on the Gardai...

They are not all corrupt and some of them are extremely intelligent...

Most of the Gardai that police the match's are told exactly what to do and where to stand by higher powers.. So its not the Gardai at the match's fault that there isn't enough policing power or that security was not at its highest its some pencil pusher in the office who coordinates the security and gives out the orders...

Ya the problems in '95 were not helped by the inadequate security at the time, it was simply underestimated.. But fair play to them for getting everything under control even though they didn't have all the sufficient resources necessary to deal with the riot... And I'm sure they will learn from their mistakes....

On another point have a question for you lot

Has there ever been a riot at any other Irish International Match?

Can't think of any off hand

[Fergie's Son]

So none of the 5m+ Muslims (note the spelling) in France are French then......?

A significant number of them do not consider themselves French at all. It's an issue for France now and will be an even greater issue for France in the future as the Moslem population increases exponentially.

[laurent]

A significant number of them do not consider themselves French at all.

yes, and they booed the french national anthem for the game against Algeria. awful ! but not a surprise as the majority of our players even don't know "La Marseillaise" and i doubt all of them can speak french.

[lopez]

yes, and they booed the french national anthem for the game against Algeria. awful ! but not a surprise as the majority of our players even don't know "La Marseillaise" and i doubt all of them can speak french.

Oh what the feck do you expect? Your President Chirac was complaining about the smell of them about a decade and a half ago.

And who in the French team do you think can't parlons la francaise? (let's see I'll stick a tenner on it not being Fabian Barthez) Or do you mean can't parlons perfectamant. Because you should try listening to some of the white anglo-saxon rosbifs like Beckham, Peter Beardsley or G8 as the wife beater now likes to be known as, to see how poor a native can speak his own language.

[Fergie's Son]

Oh what the feck do you expect? Your President Chirac was complaining about the smell of them about a decade and a half ago.

And who in the French team do you think can't parlons la francaise? (let's see I'll stick a tenner on it not being Fabian Barthez) Or do you mean can't parlons perfectamant. Because you should try listening to some of the white anglo-saxon rosbifs like Beckham, Peter Beardsley or G8 as the wife beater now likes to be known as, to see how poor a native can speak his own language.

I'd be surprised if none of them could speak French (the players that is) but I would not be surprised if many of the new immigrants could not speak French. The number of Moslem immigrants moving to France is significant and will certainly have a profound influence on the future of France. For better or for worse.

[Éanna]

They had a clip on the news on rte2 about it tonight. That twerp Alan Hunter was on claiming he and his 'organisation' has warned the FAI about it in advance but were ignored

[dcfcsteve]

I'd be surprised if none of them could speak French (the players that is) but I would not be surprised if many of the new immigrants could not speak French. The number of Moslem immigrants moving to France is significant and will certainly have a profound influence on the future of France. For better or for worse.

Immigration is a necessary fact of life for Western Europe Fergies's Son - particularly those with ageing populations like France. The likes of France and Germany will econimically wither without immigration, and that is an accepted fact.

I think you'll find the majority of Muslim (why did you insist on ignoring the conventional spelling of the word ?) immigrants into France are actually from French-speaking North Africa. Algerians, Moroccans and Tunisians in the main, and the vast majority of them already speak French. Sorry to have facts get in the way of your poorly-cloaked xenophobic "immigrants can't speak the feckin' lingo" stereotyping...

The number of English/English-speaking immigrants moving to certain rural areas of France is also significant, and will also certainly have a profound influence on the future of France. Just like the number of Irish moving to Boston and New York etc etc etc in the mid 1800's did. Significant numbers of any language/culture/race moving anywhere has a profound effect, and has done for literally millenia. So what's your point about Muslims then, and why do you seem determined to associate negative elements to their presence in France ?

[lopez]

I'd be surprised if none of them could speak French (the players that is) but I would not be surprised if many of the new immigrants could not speak French. The number of Moslem immigrants moving to France is significant and will certainly have a profound influence on the future of France. For better or for worse.

Of course I meant the players could all speak French. I'd have a guess that it is part of gaining French citizenship. The original post was to me a clear racist dig at France's foreign 2G. As with Asians in Britain and Turks in Germany, those born in the country can often speak the language better than some of the natives.

As for migrants not speaking French, well is speaking the language a prerequisite for residence? Take a look at the English-speaking ghettos that have sprung up along the Spanish costas to see that there are people there that have lived in the country for twenty-five years and can speak as much Spanish as my mother can speak Japanese.

In fact, while many North Africans and their offspring might feel marginalised in France, as dcfcsteve touches on, there are increasing probs with the children - principally teenagers - of the influx of Britons moving in, because of their own inability to learn the language. The Daily Mason ran a two page article about this a couple of months ago - it predicted an inevitible life of low menial work and crime through poor education (or rather the inability to understand French) - and the fact that the springing up of 'Brits Go Home' graffitti comes not from locals but from settled Britons that find these new property speculators are giving them a bad name.

[Junior]

The number of English/English-speaking immigrants moving to certain rural areas of France is also significant, and will also certainly have a profound influence on the future of France. Just like the number of Irish moving to Boston and New York etc etc etc in the mid 1800's did. Significant numbers of any language/culture/race moving anywhere has a profound effect, and has done for literally millenia. So what's your point about Muslims then, and why do you seem determined to associate negative elements to their presence in France ?

My mate was telling me there is a part of Canada (near Toronto somewhere I think) where the whole community speak with Mayo accents!! Obvioulsy an impact of emmigration in the 1800's - unless he's pulling my leg........errmmm...............

[NY Hoop]

Let's say the T*** 'behaviour' just confirmed many peoples worst fears.....though their apologists will describe this as a 'minority'.

Have it on reasonably good authority from Garda connections,that the majority of hoodlums were rounded up by them,after rioting....taken to the ferry terminal & given a good kicking in the Dun Laoghaire ferry terminal by the finest riot cops in Ireland!

Some of the worst offenders were stuck in Mountjoy,with 'RA men........record does not exist whether they still 'refused' to surrender Lastly,edging into 'urban myth' territory......on thug was allegedly stripped naked by the Gards,dumped in the Wicklow Mountains at night & told to make his own way home!

Not a great fan of arbitary 'Polis' justice....in this instance though,think the punishment matched the crime!

All common knowledge.

Was on the north terrace and got on the pitch after. Actually we met some of them in the liffey bar afterwards. Were boasting how they had wrecked every city in europe etc etc.

The average plod on the beat is only responding to his superiors, like in any job, so the real blame lies with Garda HQ for putting trainees at lansdowne that night.

KOH

[Éanna]

My mate was telling me there is a part of Canada (near Toronto somewhere I think) where the whole community speak with Mayo accents!! Obvioulsy an impact of emmigration in the 1800's - unless he's pulling my leg........errmmm...............

dunno about that, but there are villages in argentina where irish is spoken. and also, one or two areas in argentina where german has been spoken for the last 60 years or so

[Junior]

dunno about that, but there are villages in argentina where irish is spoken. and also, one or two areas in argentina where german has been spoken for the last 60 years or so

And Welsh!! Yer man Heinze from Man U is fluent in it.

[Donal81]

I'd be surprised if none of them could speak French (the players that is) but I would not be surprised if many of the new immigrants could not speak French. The number of Moslem immigrants moving to France is significant and will certainly have a profound influence on the future of France. For better or for worse.

A funny thing happens after of a few hundred years of colonial economic rape of North West Africa. Much of that region now speaks French the same way we speak English.

Another funny thing happens after such oppression. The colonial master leaves but remains the paymaster in many ways. Apparently one or two Irish people went to England during the 20th century.

The French government invited over workers from these countries during the 40s, 50s and 60s who were given passports. Countries such as Tunisia, the Ivory Coast maintain close links with France.

Maybe all this surprises you? Did you ever wonder why France is a global power? There's your reason.

France shafted much of Africa and didn't even leave Algeria until the 60s and only then after a miserable war which saw a few million Algerians killed.

[ken foree]

Has there ever been a riot at any other Irish International Match?

Can't think of any off hand

don't know if there was trouble during the match, but read that some irish were on the rampage after the euro qualifier in moscow?

[lopez]

...The French government invited over workers from these countries during the 40s, 50s and 60s who were given passports...

France had a total 'open door' policy to Algeria - 'open door' as in exactly the same way Britain had with Ireland until the Single European Act, or EU countries currently have with other pre-2004 EU countries - at least until the mid 1980's SEA. Don't know what happened after that but any Thomas Cook Railway Timetable of the early 1980s (this listed visa requirements for countries) I read had Algerians as the only nationals granted an unlimited stay in France outside the original nine EEC countries and maybe Switzerland.

[Donal81]

My mate was telling me there is a part of Canada (near Toronto somewhere I think) where the whole community speak with Mayo accents!! Obvioulsy an impact of emmigration in the 1800's - unless he's pulling my leg........errmmm...............

Newfoundland in Canada is a fairly isolated part of the country. Fishing expeditions of the North Atlantic would leave England and pick up fishermen and labourers usually from Waterford and spend the season fishing near Newfoundland. Most of this emigration was seasonal but some stayed and eventually more came over. As it was such an isolated place, the Irish were the only group of people there. It is indeed true that they speak with Irish accents. RTE broadcast a documentary last year called the Irish Empire. It interviewed an old man from Newfoundland. The land itself looks eerily like the western coast of Ireland. The narrator herself says that it's like a part of 'the old country' just floated across the sea. Because it was all Irish, the houses are the same, the fields look the same, the farming methods were the same.

The old man had barely heard of the Famine and said he remembered, as a boy, the old Irishmen outside the church. He was born and raised there and sounded like he was from Tipperary. Look it up, it was an excellent documentary.

[lopez]

don't know if there was trouble during the match, but read that some irish were on the rampage after the euro qualifier in moscow?

Only games I've known with trouble aside from the 1995 visit were Belgium 1981, Denmark 1985, the Scum 1985 (as Davros notes) and Switzerland 1985. However, I'd hardly call what happened as riots.