Keano to quit!

[Éanna]

Rubbish, hes already proven that he can win championships and tournaments.

not at this level. Like I said, I think Kerr has done a great job, and will leave a great legacy, but as yet, he has NOT done as well as McCarthy.

Fact is he our most successful manager at underage level and I have no doubt he will go on to be our most successful at senior level.

See, you even said it yourself. He will do, but he hasn't yet.

If McCarthy was a good "Manager" he would have handled the Saipan affair with some degree of professionalism.
There's more to football management than results on the pitch.

And if keane was a model professional, he wouldn't have thrown a hissy fit. IMO, the only way McCarthy could have been more professional about it was telling Keane to f*ck off when he had his tantrum and not given him a second chance. I never liked McCarthy- if you remember my posts on this and other forums, I was always a big critic, but its only fair to acknowledge how well he did.

[Cowboy]

Eanna

The logical extension to your way of thinking is that jack charlton was a better manager than Mc carthy since he got us to a WC 1/4 final . If we had the priveledge to ask national managers around Europe what they think of Brian kerr I think you will find he has little to prove in terms of his managerial talent.

Kerr was once asked to speak at a coaching conference entitled " The Irish Miracle" all about how he achieved so much at underage level.

[Éanna]

The logical extension to your way of thinking is that jack charlton was a better manager than Mc carthy since he got us to a WC 1/4 final . If we had the priveledge to ask national managers around Europe what they think of Brian kerr I think you will find he has little to prove in terms of his managerial talent.

You're either missing my point, or choosing to ignore it. I know how good a manager Kerr is. We all do. But he has not done as well with Ireland as McCarthy has, YET. I have little doubt that he will, but as yet, he hasn't. That clear enough for you?

[Cowboy]

Y That clear enough for you?

is condescension really necessary ?

[Cowboy]

but you forget to mention all his previous achievments, I gave the example of the coaching conference merely as an example of the high esteem he is held throughout europe.

However I think maybe our debate has run its course and perhaps we should review at the end of the world cup ( i hate to tempt fate by saying the qualifying campaign)

Don't want to be dismissive, but the phrase 'big deal' springs to mind.

In the annals of great managers, they won't have:-

Helenio Herrera - won everything with Inter Milan and Barcelona

Brian Clough - took a provincial team to the top in England, then took a different provincial team to the top in Europe

Bob Paisley - won everything at Liverpool

Brian Kerr - once asked to speak at a coaching conference entitled " The Irish Miracle" all about how he achieved so much at underage level...

It would be nice if, by the end of his career, they can stick 'managed Ireland to their first senior World Cup triumph', but I wouldn't start blowing the trumpet just yet.

[Éanna]

is condescension really necessary ?

You completely missed/ignored my point, so I spelt it out.

[Cowboy]

You completely missed/ignored my point, so I spelt it out.

I did neither but I think theres little point debating you further if you consider condescension and insult to be polite and reasoned debate.

[Éanna]

I did neither but I think theres little point debating you further if you consider condescension and insult to be polite and reasoned debate.

You did one or the other, because I made a point, and you replied to my post completely misinterpreting the point I made.

[tiktok]

'ManU' your favourite club then Martin?

What's your point Conor, that Manchester United fans can't take a step back and offer an objective view?
I suppose Leeds fans hatred of all thing Fergie-related leaves them as perfectly detached observers

[Macy]

Back to the McCarthy v Kerr debate.

Regardless as poor the performance was against in the final game of the last qualifying campaign, it simply cannot be compared to the defeat (and subsequent draw) with Macedonia.

The Anti McCarthy people are always branded with it being all about Keane. McCarthy was a crap manager long before Saipan, his continued picking of favourites who were out of form etc.

Anyone think that Kerr wouldn't have spotted Spain were down to 10 men, the way McCarthy didn't?

[Junior]

Anyone think that Kerr wouldn't have spotted Spain were down to 10 men, the way McCarthy didn't?

Out of interest did McCarthy ever admit to not spotting that Spain were down to 10 men or is this just an assumption made as he didn't change the team formation as a result?

[Macy]

Out of interest did McCarthy ever admit to not spotting that Spain were down to 10 men or is this just an assumption made as he didn't change the team formation as a result?

He was asked straight after the match was it disappointing not to beat 10 men in extra time, and his answer was something like "were they?" or something similar. I'll try and find the exact question and answer if I get the chance today. Was definitely in one of the papers around the time, could've been Paul Howard (Turbine) thinking about it.

[tricky_colour]

I will hold my hand up and say I didn't spot it either, but then I am
not the manager.

[Éanna]

The Anti McCarthy people are always branded with it being all about Keane. McCarthy was a crap manager long before Saipan, his continued picking of favourites who were out of form etc.

and the anti-keane people are always branded with it being all about McCarthy.

[Junior]

I will hold my hand up and say I didn't spot it either, but then I am
not the manager.

Me too, I was at the game but didn't realise until I'd read the match reports etc. Neither did the 3 lads that were with me. If he didn't realise then it is a high profile mistake however in all honesty with the tension of the occasion I do have some sympathy with him (Im probably too soft though!)

[martin_rules_ie]

...and maybe i am biased for roy...

as is seen above, i never denied being bias

because i support manu, i'm not allowed give an opinion? your bias is what formulates opinions!

you have a bias against roy,
i have a bias for roy!

[NeilMcD]

Roy sheds a little light on charity effort
Tom Humphries reports



SOCCER: The theme of the day was shades, but the star attraction needed no movie star props with which to wow the crowd. For hours on end he was meeted and greeted, handled and gladhanded, fondled and ferried.

He was quizzed and questioned. He petted puppy dogs and kissed babies. He made jokes with the media. He small-talked the Taoiseach. He came, he saw, he stayed for the reception.

Roy Keane, immortalised on stage and in screen, hit the genteel southside of Dublin yesterday. Bam! The occasion was the launch of an Irish Guide Dogs funding and awareness campaign which over the next few weeks will encourage the public to sport miniature sunglasses on their lapels, having first made a donation of €2 to get the shades.

Specsavers, a visit to whose premises Keane has suggested to many referees over the years, are behind the campaign, but Roy Keane is the main enforcer.

Good cause, but nevertheless the questions came in an odd ratio. One about the charity, 36 or 37 about football.

Football first. Rumours of Roy's retirement are greatly exaggerated. Alex Ferguson told him so on Saturday.

"In fairness, I just said that I thought my last contract would be just that, the last big contract I would have at United.

"I didn't actually mean to announce retirement, but I suppose when you use the words I used you can't expect it to be taken up any other way.

"Anyway, on Saturday at the training ground the gaffer told me that he would decide who retired and when. That's fair enough."

The hips? Those hips that an entire nation has fretted about? They're fine, better than ever.

"I think this year I've got the balance right between playing and rest. I used to always want to do everything. Now I take my rest properly, I do yoga a couple of times a week - not the meditation sort of stuff (disappointment on the faces of all those who wanted to ask what mantra Keane softly chants), but a version that stretches you a lot. I do it, Ryan Giggs does it and David Bellion does it. It really works for us."

What next? The Roy Keane Diet and Workout Video? Don't rule it out. Apart from the outbreak of civil unrest in the Highbury tunnel, which it seems meant far less to Roy than it did to the rest of the world, Keane is the picture of contentment these days.

The business of his return to the Irish team, his reassimilation, his hopes for the future - or, more particularly - for the summer of 2006, were all brushed aside politely.

"I've moved on with my life," he said with a smile, before outlining the precise gradient of the mountain Ireland have yet to climb before talk of fond farewells in Germany.

Of the I, Keano phenomenon he had heard good things, but wouldn't be sampling the smell of the crowd and the roar of the greasepaint in the near future.

"I haven't time, to be honest. I've enough going on."

If they obliged and brought the production to Manchester? Keano en famille in a box for a Royal Command Performance.

"Well, maybe if I got a free ticket."

It should be.

It dawned on us slowly that he wasn't going to be rising to any bait on this crisp Monday afternoon. The man has his offdays on the controversy front.

Back to more straightforward stuff. Tell us the future, Roy. Will the unfinished business of your last World Cup be driving and inspiring you over the next few months?

"My last World Cup?" he mused with a grin. "1994?"

And that was it. He wouldn't insult Celtic or the Scottish League by announcing that when he was well and truly old and crocked he'd go and play there. To Martin O'Neill's opinion that Keane would never leave United, Keane replied, "Martin is a clever man."

And of the possibility of ever managing Ireland? Well, let's just say that the FAI might be more of a hindrance than a help in recruitment terms.

Finally, the charity. It was a struggle staying on message, but why guide dogs?

"They approached me about three years ago to give a little time and I was delighted. I know there's a lot of good charities out there, but this one appealed to me. I'd like to give more time than I do. Maybe in the future."

That's one side. Why choose Roy Keane as your front man? Well, any other soccer star would have been the bland leading the blind

[Cowboy]

That's fair enough. But it seems such a long time to bite my tongue...

But don't leave Eanna off the hook so easily!!

please wade in at any time between now and then

Eanna takes all the good out of the debate when he resorts to insults so takes the fun out of it and i lose interest

[martin_rules_ie]

...."My last World Cup?" he mused with a grin. "1994?"....

comic genious

[Cowboy]

comic genious

yes but his comic talent pales in comparison to the clowns in the FAI