Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: First game in the FAI Cup?

  1. #1
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2002
    Location
    In the long grass
    Posts
    30,374
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,366
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,666
    Thanked in
    1,660 Posts

    First game in the FAI Cup?

    Quick query - maybe Dodge or The Boss can help out.

    What was the first game played in the FAI Cup?

    Obviously it was in the 1921/22 competition. But the wiki page starts with the first round matches played in Jan 1922 - but UCD played in this competition as well, losing 6-2 away to Shamrock Rovers in a preliminary round. Are there any details of that round available? Was Rovers v UCD the first ever FAI Cup game, or were there other games played at the same time?

  2. #2
    First Team
    Joined
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Athlone
    Posts
    1,611
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    91
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    193
    Thanked in
    132 Posts
    I count the First Round games as the first games proper. We qualified for the First Round, by winning a regional competition.

    From Tadhg Carey's book, When We Were Kings...

    http://foot.ie/asset.php?fid=2378&uid=86&d=1485215813
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by atfconline; 23/01/2017 at 11:57 PM.
    Celebrating 130 Years of Athlone Town Football Club - Pride of the Midlands Since 1887

  3. Thanks From:


  4. #3
    First Team seand's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    D'Shed
    Posts
    1,447
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    413
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    445
    Thanked in
    215 Posts
    I have some limited record, somewhere, of some of the qualifying rounds from that season, I'll have a dig later this week. Had this conversation recently about what constitutes an FAI Cup game. Often the non-league teams qualify for the main competition by making the latter stages of other competitions- typically FAI Intermediate Cup or FAI Junior Cup. Obviously qualifying in that way doesn't make the FAI Junior Cup game an FAI Cup qualifying round game. However in the case atfconline mentioned I'd count those as distinct FAI Cup games. Likewise, I believe, there were dedicated qualifying rounds ahead of the 21-2 FAI Cup.

  5. Thanks From:


  6. #4
    Reserves
    Joined
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Turners Cross - I wish!
    Posts
    634
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    69
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    67
    Thanked in
    49 Posts
    First round games in 1922 FAI Cup, all played on Saturday 14 January:

    Dublin United 8-1 Frankfort
    Olympia 1-3 Shamrock Rovers
    St James's Gate 3-1 Jacobs
    West Ham (Belfast) 0-0 Shelbourne
    YMCA 3-4 Athlone Town

    Athlone Town, Shamrock Rovers and West Ham were non-league sides.
    Bohemians received a bye in the opening round.

    I think these games constitute the first games in the competition proper.
    The FAI Intermediate Cup was originally called the Qualifying Cup, as it was the avenue for (mainly) LSL and MSL sides to participate in the Senior competition. This competition started a few years after 1922 (1926 or 1927). I think Rovers won the LSL and qualified - not sure how Athlone and West Ham made it in.
    ...Schwanholz, Herisau: a little bit of heaven...

  7. #5
    International Prospect Martinho II's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Killashee Longford
    Posts
    8,036
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4,059
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    535
    Thanked in
    450 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by The Donie Forde View Post
    First round games in 1922 FAI Cup, all played on Saturday 14 January:

    Dublin United 8-1 Frankfort
    Olympia 1-3 Shamrock Rovers
    St James's Gate 3-1 Jacobs
    West Ham (Belfast) 0-0 Shelbourne
    YMCA 3-4 Athlone Town

    Athlone Town, Shamrock Rovers and West Ham were non-league sides.
    Bohemians received a bye in the opening round.

    I think these games constitute the first games in the competition proper.
    The FAI Intermediate Cup was originally called the Qualifying Cup, as it was the avenue for (mainly) LSL and MSL sides to participate in the Senior competition. This competition started a few years after 1922 (1926 or 1927). I think Rovers won the LSL and qualified - not sure how Athlone and West Ham made it in.
    i think that sounds right. does anyone still have the history of the FAI cup book? that would answer the question easily!
    Daire Doyles red and black army

  8. #6
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2002
    Location
    In the long grass
    Posts
    30,374
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,366
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,666
    Thanked in
    1,660 Posts
    That Athlone excerpt is interesting.

    So the wiki article says the Cup started with the last 11. But the Athlone book says 37 teams entered in total - so 29 non-league teams took part in three regional competitions. UCD lost to Shamrock Rovers, and it seems we may have then been in a kind of pool (like the League Cup these days?) with some sides from Tipp. That'd mean at least four preliminary rounds. Hadn't realised it was quite that big.

    It's in our club history that it was our first appearance in the FAI Cup - so it wasn't an FAI Junior or Intermediate Cup (the latter of which we won in 1915 and 1945, for example - 1915 being the IFA Intermediate Cup)

    Will see what seand can dig up alright; thanks all!

  9. #7
    First Team
    Joined
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Athlone
    Posts
    1,611
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    91
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    193
    Thanked in
    132 Posts
    Further on in the book, it says we received the walkover from Longford on November 19th 1921, beat St. Mary's Mullingar on December 3rd, and beat Clara on December 17th in what is listed as qualifying regional final.
    Celebrating 130 Years of Athlone Town Football Club - Pride of the Midlands Since 1887

  10. Thanks From:


  11. #8
    Reserves
    Joined
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    926
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    330
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    267
    Thanked in
    166 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Martinho II View Post
    i think that sounds right. does anyone still have the history of the FAI cup book? that would answer the question easily!
    Just had a look and it doesn't say anything at all re preliminary rounds.

    It really only gives a couple of pages to each season and is pretty light on details like this.

  12. Thanks From:


  13. #9
    International Prospect Martinho II's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Killashee Longford
    Posts
    8,036
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4,059
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    535
    Thanked in
    450 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by atfconline View Post
    Further on in the book, it says we received the walkover from Longford on November 19th 1921, beat St. Mary's Mullingar on December 3rd, and beat Clara on December 17th in what is listed as qualifying regional final.
    I meant to say this yesterday which Longford team was it do you know considering Longford Town FC werent founded till 3 years later. Just curious!
    Daire Doyles red and black army

  14. #10
    First Team
    Joined
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Athlone
    Posts
    1,611
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    91
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    193
    Thanked in
    132 Posts
    Don't know Marty. It might say it somewhere in the book, but it doesn't get into any detail in the surrounding pages. I went into the library today but there was no archive there for 1921/22 - the paper was burned by the Black and Tans in 1921. The date is above if you want to check the Leader.
    Celebrating 130 Years of Athlone Town Football Club - Pride of the Midlands Since 1887

  15. #11
    International Prospect Martinho II's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Killashee Longford
    Posts
    8,036
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4,059
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    535
    Thanked in
    450 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by atfconline View Post
    Don't know Marty. It might say it somewhere in the book, but it doesn't get into any detail in the surrounding pages. I went into the library today but there was no archive there for 1921/22 - the paper was burned by the Black and Tans in 1921. The date is above if you want to check the Leader.
    yep I do use their archive regularly online in local library so when I get the chance I will look it up as curious!
    Daire Doyles red and black army

  16. #12
    Apprentice
    Joined
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Dundalk
    Posts
    93
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    36
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    40
    Thanked in
    21 Posts
    According to the Dundalk Democrat, in the 1922-23 season Dundalk GNR, then playing in its inaugural Leinster Senior League season, were defeated by Bray Unknowns 1-0 in the final of the Dublin District FAI Qualifying Cup.
    Bray drew Shelbourne in the 1st round proper and lost 9-0.
    This suggests that there were pre-first round qualifying games at that stage, not captured in McSweeney’s A Record of LOI Football.
    In the next week or so I’ll check the Democrat archives to see if there are any further details.

  17. #13
    Reserves littlebray's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2001
    Posts
    376
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    60
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    78
    Thanked in
    51 Posts
    There was a three-phase development of the qualifying procedure (which much later broke down in disarray, but that's not relevant right now ...).

    First, there were Qualifying Rounds (approx 1920-1926). Then there was a Qualifying Cup, the "Finals" of which were often played months after the Qualifying was achieved and the early rounds of the Cup played. Then it was renamed the Intermediate Cup, and the Semi-Finalists were to qualify for the First Round of the FAI Cup.

    For my archive purposes, the first two are integral to the Cup itself, and should really form part of any history. Once it becomes a stand-alone competition (with the word Qualifying removed) it gets its own history.

    (You could quibble that once it has its own trophy, it's no longer integral to the Cup, but that's for another day. You could also quibble that it was the FAI Senior Challenge Cup at first, then the FAIFS Senior Challenge Cup until the late 1930s, and then the FAI Cup again. But let's not.)

    I'm not at my base PC at present, but I'll post the results of the first season "Qualifying Rounds" later.
    Last edited by littlebray; 31/01/2017 at 3:33 PM. Reason: minor typo

  18. Thanks From:


  19. #14
    Reserves littlebray's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2001
    Posts
    376
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    60
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    78
    Thanked in
    51 Posts
    FAI Senior Cup Qualifying Rounds were played on a regionalised basis for the first five seasons, and the regional "winners" were included in the First Round ("proper" - I hate that usage!)
    In the first two seasons that included a Northern region, called Falls in 21/2 (because all the clubs were from the Fall Road League) and Belfast the second season.
    That's how Alton United got in, to become the first non-League winners of the Cup.

    The very first Qualifying Round games were played on 19 November 1921 - the first answer to the original question.

    The first "First Round" games were played on 14 January 1922 - the second answer to the OQ.

    From 1926/7 the qualifying rounds were called the Qualifying Cup, and in addition to what I've already described, the regional winners played off for the Q.C.
    Finals, with one exception, were played in Cork and most years well after the Senior Cup Final itself!

    Beginning in 1931/2, it was re-established as the Intermediate Cup, with a broader remit. League clubs could put their second or third teams in for that, and although in theory the Semi-finalists were to be admitted to the FAI Cup 1st round, it was a rule very often ignored.

    For what it's worth, here are the Qualifying Cup Finals, which are not easy to track down:

    1926/7 Final (08 May, Cork):
    Drumcondra 2-0 Cobh Ramblers
    [Swan 2]

    1927/8 Final (22 Apr, Cork):
    Bohemians (Cork) 5-0 Strandville
    [Buckley, Staunton, O'Sullivan 3]
    * Strandville played with 10 men for all of the second half

    1928/9 Final (21 Apr, Mardyke)
    Fermoy 3-5 Richmond United
    [Field, Carr 2 (1p); Redmond 3, Woods, Whelan]

    1929/30 Final (29 Dec, Clonmel):
    Glasnevin 2-4 Cahir Park
    [Drumgoole, McEvoy; Heuston, O'Brien 2, Mulcahy]

    1930/1 Final (19 Apr):
    Bohemians (Cork) v Rossville, a draw
    Replay (10 May, Cork): Bohemians 3-2 Rossville

  20. Thanks From:


  21. #15
    First Team seand's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    D'Shed
    Posts
    1,447
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    413
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    445
    Thanked in
    215 Posts
    Magnificent stuff littlebray, thanks, I'm in nerdvana. Looking forward to the next instalment and qualifying round results 21-2!

    :-)


    Of the qualifying cup finalists 1927 winners Drumcondra joined the league in 1928, and Cork Bohs were in the league 1933-1935. Cobh Ramblers took their time about making the step up!
    Last edited by seand; 07/02/2017 at 9:58 AM.

  22. #16
    First Team seand's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    D'Shed
    Posts
    1,447
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    413
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    445
    Thanked in
    215 Posts
    Incidentally Shamrock Rovers were beaten 1-0 at Tipperary Wanderers in the qualifying round, but the match was replayed on appeal and Rovers won the replay 1-0.

  23. #17
    Reserves littlebray's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2001
    Posts
    376
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    60
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    78
    Thanked in
    51 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by seand View Post
    Incidentally Shamrock Rovers were beaten 1-0 at Tipperary Wanderers in the qualifying round, but the match was replayed on appeal and Rovers won the replay 1-0.
    Yes, if memory serves the protest was about pitch markings and the height of the goalposts ...

    I can post the qualifying rounds here, but they still need work (I am missing some results and lots of scorers), and I'm deep in another project at present. I'll talk to braywanderers.com and see if they'd mind an incomplete page - you'd need a link to it, it wouldn't come up in the normal site navigation.

  24. Thanks From:


Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 146
    Last Post: 20/07/2009, 12:20 AM
  2. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 17/02/2007, 5:42 PM
  3. We cant organise one at a top flight game sometimes imagine 5 each game
    By Tis-smeee in forum Premier & First Divisions
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 14/02/2007, 8:49 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •