When Saturday Comes magazine

[pineapple stu]

Thought the article was a bit selective in its matches to back up the switch!

Linfield struggled against Sammarinese opposition - but no mention of Drogheda doing the same with a summer season.

Ballymena and Coleraine were easily beaten by Scandics this year - but no mention of Derry losing 10-2.

No mention either of a penalty being all to separate Cork and Linfield recently. And Georgian clubs' worst Euro campaign in years is portrayed as a positive.

And the article was almost entirely about Europe, but the mess that is the First Division is due in part to the short-sighted decision to create split seasons in Irish football and further alternate junior/intermediate football. A summer switch should be for all clubs or none I think. Not four.

There's undoubtedly arguments to be made for a switch. I just don't think the article touched on any tbh.

[El-Pietro]

A penalty was all that separated us on the score sheet but if you watched those games you will realise that we completely dominated Linfield and pulled two of the greatest ever performances seen in an Irish League goalkeeper.

[Straightstory]

Thought the article was a bit selective in its matches to back up the switch!

Linfield struggled against Sammarinese opposition - but no mention of Drogheda doing the same with a summer season.

By 'Sammarinese' I presume you mean Drogheda v Libertas? That was a 4-1 aggregate victory. I was at both games - they could have won by a lot more and were never in any danger of being eliminated. How was that in any way a 'struggle'?

[EatYerGreens]

Yeah its hard to see them moving away from the 3pm on a Saturday slot too, just seems so backward playing at that time in this day and age with so many other things going on. I remember well the 3.30 Sunday kick offs in the LOI (2.15 in winter for those with no lights) but now Sunday's are a total family day.

On the actual article itself, there is no way the NI teams will ever improve in europe if they don't change their set up, no reason a few of them couldn't take the lead on this and trial even 'part full time' , but maybe they budget for one round only in europe, they bizarely all seem very happy with the current scene up there, and as I said in previous post, I dont see an appetite for them to change seasons anytime soon.

Football in the north is dominated by unionist folk - both in its administration and its support - and they tend not to like change.

They often complain about having to travel all the way to Derry and Fermanagh for games form Belfast FFS. One of the (many) reasons often heard against an all-island league from northern fans is the travelling that would be involved.

They'd rather have teams playing each other 5 times a season in a de-facto Belfast and District League than see any change that might require trading off mild inconvenience for major opportunity.

Though with the demographics continuing to change in NI (particularly in Belfast) it'll be interesting to see what happens to a league where almost every team is closely associated with a protestant identity/fanbase.

[gufcfan]

They often complain about having to travel all the way to Derry and Fermanagh for games form Belfast FFS. One of the (many) reasons often heard against an all-island league from northern fans is the travelling that would be involved.

The longest trips in the IL are still shorter than Galway to Sligo.

[EatYerGreens]

The longest trips in the IL are still shorter than Galway to Sligo.

There are trips in the LOI which are both much shorter and much longer than Galway to Sligo, plus the two teams aren't even in the same division. So I'm afraid I'm not getting your point here (apologies) ?

[Charlie Darwin]

There are trips in the LOI which are both much shorter and much longer than Galway to Sligo, plus the two teams aren't even in the same division. So I'm afraid I'm not getting your point here (apologies) ?

The longest trips in the IL are shorter than the trip for what would be considered the closest thing for a derby to Galway. Can't be that much to get.

[pineapple stu]

A penalty was all that separated us on the score sheet but if you watched those games you will realise that we completely dominated Linfield and pulled two of the greatest ever performances seen in an Irish League goalkeeper.

True - but isn't that part of the game?

By 'Sammarinese' I presume you mean Drogheda v Libertas? That was a 4-1 aggregate victory. I was at both games - they could have won by a lot more and were never in any danger of being eliminated. How was that in any way a 'struggle'?

Because Drogheda drew the away game and even at half-time in the home game, it was only 2-1 on aggregate.

You could argue that Drogheda ultimately cantered to a win, and you may well be right, but in that case, you have to acknowledge that, for example, La Fiorita didn't manage a single shot on target in Belfast.

That would bring us into slightly tedious semantics - but I think the point still stands that overall, the examples in the article didn't really back up the point made once you drilled into them.

Ultimately, the North is one-third the size of the South population-wise. Have we got three times the league? That's obviously a very nebulous question, but I'd say it's hard to argue that we do. Attendances here are not three times as big. We have no pyramid structure at all, and are really starting to suffer because of it. We're still more miss than hit in Europe (Pat's in Luxembourg and Rovers in Finland in 2016; Cork in Iceland and Pat's in Latvia in 2015, etc). I don't think we're really in a position to look down on the Irish League and say "If only they had summer soccer".

[brendy_éire]

Football in the north is dominated by unionist folk - both in its administration and its support - and they tend not to like change.

They often complain about having to travel all the way to Derry and Fermanagh for games form Belfast FFS. One of the (many) reasons often heard against an all-island league from northern fans is the travelling that would be involved.

Sums it up nicely. Most fans I know, even if it would suit them better to have Friday night matches, would still rather stick with the Saturday at 3 o'clock because "tradition".

The travelling issue isn't just related to football, TBF. I'm generalising, but most fans from the greater Belfast area simply will not contemplate going to Derry or Ballinamallard for a match, "it's a good hour and a half away". They look at you like you're a man possessed when you tell them you're going from Derry to Dublin and back in the one night.
By the same token though, many of these people will rarely travel any outside the greater Belfast area, full stop. Flying from Dublin airport is a big deal, for example. Going to Cork is just unimaginable.

An all-Ireland will have to be driven by the Belfast-based clubs themselves, the fans won't be the ones to push it.

[marinobohs]

Sums it up nicely. Most fans I know, even if it would suit them better to have Friday night matches, would still rather stick with the Saturday at 3 o'clock because "tradition".

The travelling issue isn't just related to football, TBF. I'm generalising, but most fans from the greater Belfast area simply will not contemplate going to Derry or Ballinamallard for a match, "it's a good hour and a half away". They look at you like you're a man possessed when you tell them you're going from Derry to Dublin and back in the one night.
By the same token though, many of these people will rarely travel any outside the greater Belfast area, full stop. Flying from Dublin airport is a big deal, for example. Going to Cork is just unimaginable.

An all-Ireland will have to be driven by the Belfast-based clubs themselves, the fans won't be the ones to push it.

An all Ireland league will only happen when it is financially attractive enough to get the clubs off their narrow vested self interests and is worth while halving the number of self important blazers in both FAI and IFA. Don't hold your breath.

[EatYerGreens]

An all Ireland league will only happen when it is financially attractive enough to get the clubs off their narrow vested self interests and is worth while halving the number of self important blazers in both FAI and IFA. Don't hold your breath.

As happened in England, it will come about because the money offered for it is too good to refuse (credible money, that is)

The blazers would have to roll with it whether they liked it or not - especially in the north - as the biggest clubs would call the shots once good money was at stake. Otherwise the blazers would risk increasing irrelevance (who'd want to be the head of a football association that lost its main clubs ?).

As an aside, I see that Sky have lost the right to Italian football now - to add to their dwindling stable of high profile sports rights. I'm surprised they haven't made serious overtures to have a bit of LOI to fill their Summer schedule. They've been daft enough to show a few Irish league games live, and we've a better all-round product to offer.

[marinobohs]

As happened in England, it will come about because the money offered for it is too good to refuse (credible money, that is)

The blazers would have to roll with it whether they liked it or not - especially in the north - as the biggest clubs would call the shots once good money was at stake. Otherwise the blazers would risk increasing irrelevance (who'd want to be the head of a football association that lost its main clubs ?).

As an aside, I see that Sky have lost the right to Italian football now - to add to their dwindling stable of high profile sports rights. I'm surprised they haven't made serious overtures to have a bit of LOI to fill their Summer schedule. They've been daft enough to show a few Irish league games live, and we've a better all-round product to offer.

LOI would be a good fit with SKY Sports as it would cover the summer (non EPL) time when many subscribers give up their SKY Sports package (until EPL starts in August). world Cup this year means there would be little interest from SKY but might be an option next year.
Not suggesting that LOI would ever capture the kind of numbers that tune in to the EPL but might generate a bit of interest for UK (and others) football junkies during the EPL offseason. if SKY brought 10% of their professional expertise to showing LOI it would be an improvement on current coverage.

[redobit]

I have no doubt that travel would be a big issue for the Nordie teams. But it wont be the main concern for them when thinking about joining an AIL ... How many of the IL teams would make a real impact in an AIL, maybe a couple. The rest will be mid table or first division clubs, which means no competing for trophies or european spots. They will never agree to that, in fairness why would they.

[EatYerGreens]

I have no doubt that travel would be a big issue for the Nordie teams. But it wont be the main concern for them when thinking about joining an AIL ... How many of the IL teams would make a real impact in an AIL, maybe a couple. The rest will be mid table or first division clubs, which means no competing for trophies or european spots. They will never agree to that, in fairness why would they.

It doesn't matter if the likes of Warrenpoint and Ballinamallard don't agree to it. All it takes is for the main clubs to do so - i.e. Linfield, Glentoran, Crusaders, Cliftonville, possibly also a few of the provincial clubs (Ballymena, Coleraine, Glenavon) and then probably Newry as well (for a variety of reasons).

Once it looks like just a few of the main clubs want to go into an AIL, the IFA will be forced to go along with it. That's exactly what happened in England re the Premier League. Money shifts the balance of power away form a football association and towards its member clubs - so once money is on the table, some of the bigger northern clubs will want to make the leap.

Even if Linfield weren't up for it, the Irish League with them but no Glentoran, Cliftonville etc would just be sh!t. So you could see them forced along by the tide as well.

Leaving the EU will complicate things a little on the ability of Northern teams to force the IFA's hand on this though. Its much easier to change footballing jurisdiction within the EU than it is outside it, due to Competition and Restraint of Trade Laws, and also a previous legal case in the UK High Court re the Welsh FA.

[marinobohs]

It doesn't matter if the likes of Warrenpoint and Ballinamallard don't agree to it. All it takes is for the main clubs to do so - i.e. Linfield, Glentoran, Crusaders, Cliftonville, possibly also a few of the provincial clubs (Ballymena, Coleraine, Glenavon) and then probably Newry as well (for a variety of reasons).

Once it looks like just a few of the main clubs want to go into an AIL, the IFA will be forced to go along with it. That's exactly what happened in England re the Premier League. Money shifts the balance of power away form a football association and towards its member clubs - so once money is on the table, some of the bigger northern clubs will want to make the leap.

Even if Linfield weren't up for it, the Irish League with them but no Glentoran, Cliftonville etc would just be sh!t. So you could see them forced along by the tide as well.

Leaving the EU will complicate things a little on the ability of Northern teams to force the IFA's hand on this though. Its much easier to change footballing jurisdiction within the EU than it is outside it, due to Competition and Restraint of Trade Laws, and also a previous legal case in the UK High Court re the Welsh FA.

..Cue Roddy Collins appearing 'hello Guys I have a few investors..........'

[seand]

Even if by some miracle there was an epiphany within the Irish League and northern Ireland in general and they suddenly became cosmopolitan outward looking progressives it would still be hard to see why the IL clubs would want to throw their lot in with the LoI. Finances alone would rule it out- we'd go from 8 extremely lucrative Euro spots to 4, four major trophies to two. That's ignoring the "cultural" issues. Like a united Ireland, we simply couldn't afford to carry the North.

[TonyD]

No chance that the IL clubs would want to throw their lot in with the Southern league in my view. They pulled out of the Setanta Cup when they began to get regular beatings, and that's before you take any political/religious aspects into consideration. The one thing that might that change their mind is money( and I only say might) as EYG says. It's hard to see where that money might materialise from though. Even if Sky did want to get involved, I don't see them offering game changing money.

[EatYerGreens]

I'd agree that there's a lot of inertia amongst Irish League clubs. But then again - decent-sized clubs like Glentoran and Portadown are achieving little in the Irish League, so may well feel therefore that there's little to lose in an AIL, and potentially much to gain. But it would all require a generous sponsor to appear to make it a goer.


As an aside - fro the first time in living memory, there is a genuine likelihood of a border poll (i.e. vote on Irish unity) within the next decade or so. Brexit and shifting demographics are combining to create an atmosphere where a border poll is being openly discussed as a genuine possibility and perhaps even an inevitability. Who knows how such a vote would conclude, but it could be that politics forces the issue of an AIL at some point anyway.

[pineapple stu]

Another LoI feature in this month's issue - a two-page photo spread from Waterford v St Pats last month

[oriel]

Thanks Stu, used to get this on subscription but got bored with so much PL articles, bought this copy online now.