View Poll Results: Should other sports be allowed in Croke Park?

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  • Yes- football and rugby

    17 77.27%
  • Rugby only

    2 9.09%
  • No

    2 9.09%
  • Unsure

    1 4.55%
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Thread: No Football or Rugby at Croke Park

  1. #1
    Seasoned Pro gspain's Avatar
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    No Football or Rugby at Croke Park

    From today's Indo

    It looks like the former presidents will scupper the motion on opening up Croke Park again.

    Still what would you expect from a committee that contains Peter Quinn, Con Murphy, Pat Fanning, Sean McCague and Jack Boothman.


    President's men may KO Rule 42 plea


    WITH the deadline for the submission of motions for discussion at this year's GAA Congress only a day away, there are growing fears that proposals to change the rules regarding the use of Croke Park may not even make it onto the agenda.

    Eleven counties were stunned when informed last Thursday that their motions on Rule 42 - which deals with the use of GAA property - were out of order. They were given until 5pm tomorrow to re-submit amended motions but they were not informed as to how precisely to tidy them up so that they meet the criteria set down by the vetting committee.

    It led to a frantic weekend as officials from various counties consulted with each other in a desperate attempt to come up with the correct wording. Their efforts are ongoing and will continue right up to tomorrow's deadline, by which time all 11 counties are expected to present amended motions.

    However, there is absolutely no guarantee that the new versions will be accepted by the Motions Committee, which is comprised of GAA president Sean Kelly, Director-General Liam Mulvihill plus former GAA presidents.

    The high-powered group caused uproar last year when they ruled all motions relating to Rule 42 out of order and they could be poised to strike again unless counties manage to plot their way around the intricate technical details involved in framing a complicated motion.

    Roscommon's Tommy Kenoy, a long time advocate of renting Croke Park for rugby and soccer, said that while counties were being given an opportunity to re-submit motions, the decision as to whether they were in order would again fall to the committee which had rejected them twice before.

    "It's very frustrating," he said. "The fact of the matter is that 11 counties want to discuss Rule 42 but we're still not sure if it will even be on the agenda. We have been told that our motions, as drafted, are not in order but we're not being provided with alternative wording so all we can do is make amendments as we see fit and hope they pass the vetting committee.

    "People outside the GAA - and indeed a lot inside it too - will be amazed that what should be a relatively simple task of getting a motion onto the Congress agenda is proving so complicated," he said.

    Counties have been told that a change to Rule 42 also requires amendments to Rules 3, 4 and 5 which deal with the aims and objectives of the Association, plus Rules 43 and 44 which covers ownership of grounds. It's all highly complicated and has led to claims that the Motions Committee are deliberately introducing technicalities to prevent debate on the use of Croke Park.

    Former Munster Council chairman, Noel Walsh, who has been to the forefront of the campaign to open up Croke Park was disgusted when a motion that had been passed by the Clare County Convention was marked out of order last week.

    "It's absolutely crazy. Special Congress agreed last autumn that in cases where motions were deemed to be defective, they would be corrected at national level and resubmitted by the county involved. Instead of that, we're being told that our motion is out of order but are left to our own devices as to how to amend it. I contend that a decision of Special Congress is being subverted.

    "The trouble is that whatever wording we come up with, it's open to interpretation and if the Motions Committee decide it's out of order then there will be no debate on Croke Park this year. That would be a PR disaster for the GAA as it's clear that the vast majority want it discussed.

    "Isn't it amazing that it was possible to get Rule 42 on the agenda a few years ago and now we seem to be all tied up in rules and technicalities? It makes you wonder what's going on," said Walsh.

    Walsh and Kenoy also questioned the speed with which counties were obliged to re-submit motions that were ruled out of order. Congress won't take place until mid-April but only motions submitted by 5pm tomorrow evening have any chance of making the agenda.

    Laois and Cavan are other counties who are trying to redraft their motions ahead of the deadline.

    Anthony Delaney, whose club Shanahoe have pushed the Rule 42 issue in Laois for several years, said that they would be making every effort to get the wording right but conceded that they were operating in a vacuum as they weren't being told what precisely would satisfy the Motions Committee. Niall Dolan, (Ramor Utd, Cavan), is also trying to get their motion in order but, like all the others, is unsure as to what the Motions Committee require.

    "It would be very disappointing if there were no debate on Rule 42 this year either but there's a danger of that happening because there is no guarantee the amended motions will be accepted," he said.

    Seán Kelly, who is in favour of amending Rule 42, has said that he is hopeful that counties will be able to correct the motions so that they pass the vetting committee but others are less optimistic.

    Noel Walsh said: "The reality is that we don't know precisely how to proceed. We will do our best to get the motions right but it's not easy when you're not quite sure what was wrong with them in the first place. 11 counties have spoken on the issue - surely that should be enough to get on the Congress agenda. All this technical stuff means nothing to the ordinary GAA members. They have strong views for and against opening Croke Park but instead of having an intelligent debate on the matter, we're bogged down in procedures as to how to get it onto the Congress agenda. It makes no sense."

    It would be a blow to Kelly's Presidency if, for the second successive year, a proposal on this issue failed to go before Congress.

    He is due to step down at Congress 2006 so effectively this is his last real chance to address the Croke Park issue which was a central plank in his candidacy.

    Kelly favours opening Croke Park but there is a growing volume from other forces who are intent on thwarting him.

  2. #2
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    No surprise really.

    The GAA will break their own rules before they all 'Sacar' into Croker
    Oh no not them again

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    i think it is only a matter of time really before they allow other sports in. either the pressure from the people for it will grow or financially they will have to..
    Life isn't all beer and football...some of us haven't touched a football in months

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    to hell with them. Why should Irish football go begging on its knees to these ignorant banjo-whacking rednecks.

    Whatever about their justification for not allowing football on the basis of it not being an All-Ireland sport, they have no right to do so with rugby whatsoever. Shows them up for the bigots they are. the government should threaten to repossess croke park for the tax-payer who paid for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Éanna
    to hell with them.
    Damn right!
    Quote Originally Posted by Éanna
    these ignorant banjo-whacking rednecks.
    Sums them up fairly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Éanna
    the government should threaten to repossess croke park for the tax-payer who paid for it.
    Here! here!
    This is the cooooooooooooolest footy forum I've ever seen!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Éanna
    the government should threaten to repossess croke park for the tax-payer who paid for it.
    Exactly. No funding to any GAA club until they lift their sectarian ban.
    If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.

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    Reserves Pat O' Banton's Avatar
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    Rather than being fired up about it like Lopez, Eanna et al I'm severely disappointed. The FAI have to go begging due to the state of Lansdowne and the fact that UEFA will not let us use the buckets again, which means a joke capacity and stopping many people from seeing their country play. Either that or the FAI will have to follow the well worn path to Holyhead and emigrate in order to play home matches, which when we have a superb, massive stadium standing empty (and running up debts) is nothing short of farcical.
    I have to disagree with the redneck comments and say that the only bright side to the argument is that one third of the voting counties are prepared to put the motion forward, which shows that there is a groundswell of support at grass roots level for the plan, just hope that the dinosaurs at the top realise this sooner rather than later.


    Quote Originally Posted by ollie
    i think it is only a matter of time really before they allow other sports in. either the pressure from the people for it will grow or financially they will have to..
    We've been saying this for years, nowadays I'm not so optimistic. What looks like happening is that the FAI and IRFU will have to pump millions into a stadium that could be better used developing youth structure, facilities at grounds around the country and improving the overall all lot for the Football/Rugby fan while the GAA will have to pump millions into servicing a debt on a stadium that could be better used developing youth structure, facilities at grounds around the country and improving the overall all lot for the GAA fan (and despite what some at higher GAA level may believe the two things are not mutually exclusive - indeed and whisper it some of the best GAA players greatly admire footballer and rugby and the players of these sports)
    Where am I now? I'm over here,
    I've got those empty pockets and I can't afford a beer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat O' Banton
    stopping many people from seeing their country play.
    most of them don't deserve to anyway. They make 4 or 5 games a year, and sit in a pub supporting "their team" or spending a fortune travelling to England to see "their team" once or twice a year, and then sit in Landsdowne road unable to make any decent stab at an atmosphere because they haven't the first clue about being a proper football fan anyway. Serves them right. Maybe if they had spent more of their time and money supporting Irish football instead of filling Sky's pockets, the FAI would be in a position to do something better

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    Quote Originally Posted by Éanna
    most of them don't deserve to anyway. They make 4 or 5 games a year, and sit in a pub supporting "their team" or spending a fortune travelling to England to see "their team" once or twice a year, and then sit in Landsdowne road unable to make any decent stab at an atmosphere because they haven't the first clue about being a proper football fan anyway. Serves them right. Maybe if they had spent more of their time and money supporting Irish football instead of filling Sky's pockets, the FAI would be in a position to do something better
    This is the FAI we're talking about here, do you think that these will be the people to lose out ?
    Where am I now? I'm over here,
    I've got those empty pockets and I can't afford a beer.

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    It is the height of stupidity - or bigotry - by the morons within the Grab All Association that they are taking this dog in the manger stand. Some people will say 'good luck to them. they built a lovely stadium etc. while the FAI blew their money on hookers in Warsaw.' That's cr*p.

    Firstly, the GAA never paid a penny in wages to their players relying on the - ironic - notion of 'corinthianism' of 19C Muscular Christianity imported from Britain. One of the things that forced the GAA to set up - especially with regards to the 'Athletic' bit - was the previous discrimination against anyone who broke a sweat for a living: i.e. Lord Sh*teface of Ballyb*llocks was allowed in as he just sat on daddy's pile all day while his stable boy wasn't because he had an unfair advantage being a labourer.

    Secondly, is the in-your-face discrimination. While the Irish in Britain have been working for years against discrimination we have our own bigots doing exactly that at home. Imagine the uproar if British councils put the boot into every attempt at the GAA playing the game (drinks licences, planning permission, turning down applications for playing on public fields as it is a 'foreign game.') And let's not forget the use of football grounds in England whenever the GAA thought about a spot of proselytising. The only good news is the undoubted disgust outside the Croke Park ivory tower within the GAA. Clubs and counties should take matters into their own hands and rent out their property.
    This is the cooooooooooooolest footy forum I've ever seen!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat O' Banton
    Rather than being fired up about it like Lopez, Eanna et al I'm severely disappointed. The FAI have to go begging due to the state of Lansdowne and the fact that UEFA will not let us use the buckets again, which means a joke capacity and stopping many people from seeing their country play. Either that or the FAI will have to follow the well worn path to Holyhead and emigrate in order to play home matches, which when we have a superb, massive stadium standing empty (and running up debts) is nothing short of farcical.
    I think that's clouding the issue at this stage, and lets the GAA off the hook - the debate has been done nearly as much as the celtic are irish debate with regards to Bertie Bowl/eircom Park/No Government support for FAI stadium etc. The issue now is where now, and I hope the FAI shame them into it by moving games to Old Trafford/Anfield/Park Head.
    If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Éanna
    most of them don't deserve to anyway. They make 4 or 5 games a year, and sit in a pub supporting "their team" or spending a fortune travelling to England to see "their team" once or twice a year, and then sit in Landsdowne road unable to make any decent stab at an atmosphere because they haven't the first clue about being a proper football fan anyway. Serves them right. Maybe if they had spent more of their time and money supporting Irish football instead of filling Sky's pockets, the FAI would be in a position to do something better
    Ah not more of this "I'm a real fan cos I've been to a million Cork City games" bullsh1t snobbery again
    UCD sha-la-la

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    Reserves Pat O' Banton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macy
    I think that's clouding the issue at this stage, and lets the GAA off the hook - the debate has been done nearly as much as the celtic are irish debate with regards to Bertie Bowl/eircom Park/No Government support for FAI stadium etc. The issue now is where now, and I hope the FAI shame them into it by moving games to Old Trafford/Anfield/Park Head.
    Macy, I'm not disagreeing with yous about use if Croke Park for non GAA sports. It is an inevitable consequence of the GAA head in the sand mentality that the FAI will either have to play in front of 22,000 at Lansdowne or move to Ingerland, don't see how this either clouds the issue or lets the GAA of the hook.
    Where am I now? I'm over here,
    I've got those empty pockets and I can't afford a beer.

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    Reserves Pat O' Banton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lopez
    Ballyb*llocks
    I remember going through there one day, think I was on my way back from Ballynawestbrit
    Where am I now? I'm over here,
    I've got those empty pockets and I can't afford a beer.

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    What the boy O'Banton said really.

    It'll be interesting to see the GAA response to a formal invitation to share NI's proposed new super stadium, Pairc na Long Kesh
    They're red, they're black
    The hatchetmen are back.

    We'll support you evermore
    Though you never score...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Conor74
    check out Article 40.3.2 of Bunreacht na hEireann for starters...
    Typical Kerry salmon of knowledge

    They cant stop giving the boys money, think of the upraor from Frank Murphy and Co
    Oh no not them again

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    Quote Originally Posted by cullenswood
    Ah not more of this "I'm a real fan cos I've been to a million Cork City games" bullsh1t snobbery again
    Nothing to do with City, and nothing to do with snobbery- the simple fact is that these people plough their money into foreign leagues (mainly England and Scotland) and expect the FAI to carry on regardless. If I'm wrong, why didn't you disagree with me, or offer another reason, instead of just having a go at me?

    Quote Originally Posted by davros
    If we ever wanted to fill Croker,we'd have to inc.Celtic fans,'bar-stoolers',EPL/GAA/rugby fans & even ...... the ManUre brigade,FFS!
    Dont think there are 80k EL fans these days who are regulars,even presuming they'd all travel to Drumcondra!
    Absolutely true. But thats not the main point I was making. The point I was making was that if every barstool-dweller who sits in a pub on a saturday watching "his" team was involved in Irish football at any level- from schoolboys up to the eircom League- then the footballl lobby would be much stronger, and would have some chance of competing with the GAA for all the money that seems to be floating around. Its all well and good blaming the government (who I can't stand), the GAA(who I despise) and the FAI(do I even need to start)- but the simple fact is that people can't expect to just turn up for 90mins a few times a year, and have everything magically run like clockwork in the background.

  18. #18
    Seasoned Pro gspain's Avatar
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    Lansdowne is not full of barstoolers it is full of people who play and work in football but most do not support our national league. We have far far more people playing football in this country than any other sport.

    Now the real argument for opening Croke Park is the hundreds of millions of euro and hundreds of jobs that this country will lose die to home football and rugby games played in England. The England rugby game in 2003 was worth €90 million to the economy with no vacant hotel bed down to Portlaoise.

    Some of the backswoodsmen are too stupid to understand the consequences but the smart evil bigots like must be told in no uncertain terms by the government that their funding is going to be curtailed if they don't open up the stadium. Bertie has had the balls to stand up to the provos recently so maybe he'll stand up to the GAA now and stop bankrolling Croke Park.

    If we do have to go to England then from a footballing sense it won't be the end of the world.

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    Thumbs down Blame the government

    I've had enough of reading about the GAA edging towards a change only for the conservative sector to raise their heads to scupper again

    I really don't car what the GAA do with Croke Park as its their own decision but i do object to the government giving them open cheques qith no conditions. Sure the govt threatened the FAI with bllocking their funding for annual expenses if they didn't advertise an internal position!!! Hows about threatening the GAA funding if not drop sectarian ban???

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    So where did all the money go?

    Whilst I think the Rugby & Soccer teams should be playing at Croker while Lansdowne is rebuilt I have major reservations regarding both FAI & IRFU.

    I even get english people slaging the GAA off for this issue but I don't see Twickenham having England games / FA cup / League cup finals there while Wembley is rebulit?

    These two (FAI & IRFU) have failed to invest in stadia over the decades not just Dalymount/Lansdowne but most provinical gounds as well for example Munster can only play in front of 17,000 fans in big matches.

    In fact of all the money from decades world cups / 6 nations / Euros & friendly internationals none appears to have been put aside /invested for upgading stadia.

    Go to the goverment & tell them you have X amount of cash & they will give you more to finish the job. Thats what the GAA does!

    I know there are people on here who hate the GAA & its sports, (why ask to use its stadium then?) fair enough but if the FAI / IRFU was run the same way there would be a decent stadium built by now!

    Regarding the GAA I am one of the growing numbers that would perfer Hurling to split from Gaelic Football / GAA .

    I do not see Hurling surviving & expanding in those counties where football is dominant. In 4 or 5 counties Hurling is on its deathbed.

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