No Football or Rugby at Croke Park

[lopez]

Now you are completely out of order. You have no right whatsoever to make a judgement on people you don't even know and you're insulting friends of mine. You're connecting this to bigotry without a shred of evidence. Cop yourself on...I'm "feigning ignorance"? Are you accusing me of lying? Get f*cked if that's the case...

Time for some hankies and a copy of Asian Wives. That or a cold shower.

[lopez]

...relative paranoia...

What relative paranoia? You remember the sh*t in the John Bigot Column of the Irish Post and what he said of TB. Who the f*ck is he to call anyone 'a second class Irishman'? Anti-foreign sports this and that, then went on a big offensive apologising for hare-coursing and fox-hunting, despite them being two of the more disgusting infusions of British culture into Ireland. The only hint of paranoia round here is D81 banging on about me insulting his hypocritical (well as he said I had, I may as well give him something to complain about) friends. They love soccer but don't want to play it in Gaelic grounds: Well that is what he wrote, FFS And of course calling him a liar.

And what use is a poll? Nearly everybody here who goes to Ireland games wants Croke Park opened up. If I was being selfish, and as someone that misses most home games, I'd like Ireland to play at either Vicarage Road or Kenilworth Road. But then the economy - and esteem - of the country is more important not to mention the convenience for most people who attend current home interntionals.

Agree with WCE......If you hate the GAA so much,WTF would you be doing in their stadium supporting any team?

Because as I said, the hypocrisy and double standards of the GAA viz a viz 'soccer' stadiums outside Ireland means that argument is null and void. Anyway, you never been to Ibrox or Old Trafford? Has WCE never been to WHL? If the answer is Yes, then who are both of you to tell people to boycott the grounds belonging to organisations that people hate? Next you'll be telling me not to wear my Celtic top to Ireland games.

[Donal81]

Time for some hankies and a copy of Asian Wives. That or a cold shower.

Your response was almost as good as gspain's B I G O T R Y one. Not quite, though.

[Donal81]

The only hint of paranoia round here is D81 banging on about me insulting his hypocritical (well as he said I had, I may as well give him something to complain about) friends. They love soccer but don't want to play it in Gaelic grounds: Well that is what he wrote, FFS And of course calling him a liar.

You called them bigots, Lopez, did you not? That equals insulting them as it's not true.

And then you said I feign ignorance of GAA spreading the games? That equals accusing me of lying.

[Donal81]

They love soccer but don't want to play it in Gaelic grounds: Well that is what he wrote, FFS And of course calling him a liar.

They love soccer but don't want to see gaelic games suffer through Croke Park. I don't agree but don't believe they're bigots in their opinions.

[wexfordclockend]

Despite some believing that Hurling abroad is just popular with the Irish diaspora the game itself is spreading in the US midwest states without any help from the GAA . Milwalkee

The sooner Hurling splits from the GAA the sooner Liam Griffins vision to spread Hurling around will become reality. As he was quoted as saying it's to good to keep in Ireland only!

[lopez]

They love soccer but don't want to see gaelic games suffer through Croke Park. I don't agree but don't believe they're bigots in their opinions.

Nice to see you took my advice about hankies and Asian Wives.

I know people who love Black women, Black music, Black anything, but just don't want them in their country because they fear for the identity of Britain/Ireland/take your pick, and not because they don't like Blacks. Didn't I mention that they like their women, music and have a token one they talk to everyone about. Of course they're not racist.

So I insulted your friends. Well, nice people I'm sure they are, I'm judging them on what you are stating about them. 'They love soccer but don't want to see gaelic games suffer through Croke Park.' Hmmm??? Still hypocrites from where I'm standing. Or bigots if you prefer.

As for your 'feigned ignorance' of the GAA spreading the game being an accusation of lying? More an accusation of ignorance although whatever way you take it is fine by me. You state that having not lived abroad excuses you that the news of attempts of spreading the GAA gospel is naturally beyond you, someone that clearly suggests he has his finger on the pulse of GAA thinking (my mates, my mate's website etc.). Yet all you have to do is see the list of votes for the GAA congress or the lack of international competition to find out Gaelic games are confined to areas of 20C Irish migration. It's pretty obvious to anyone that either the GAA has attempted proselytising and failed miserably or hasn't bothered at all. My example in Birmingham suggests it's the latter. Why? Because a lone individual with minimum help above county level successfully lobbied secular schools to take on the sport in one part of Britain. Point is, if the GAA people are so worried about their games suffering why don't they do what every other sport does and move into new markets?

[lopez]

The sooner Hurling splits from the GAA the sooner Liam Griffins vision to spread Hurling around will become reality. As he was quoted as saying it's to good to keep in Ireland only!

I totally agree with you there. However you're back to relying on the GAA for the use of grounds unless counties that are heavily into the game split completely (Tipp, Kilkenny, Clare, etc). Bit of problem with Cork and Galway though.

[Schumi]

I totally agree with you there. However you're back to relying on the GAA for the use of grounds unless counties that are heavily into the game split completely (Tipp, Kilkenny, Clare, etc). Bit of problem with Cork and Galway though.

Would hurling become a foreign game then?

[lopez]

Would hurling become a foreign game then?

No, but if the game grew to threaten 'Gaelic' football, wouldn't there be the same arguments from our difinitely-not-one-bit-bigoted friends that the game should be banned from their grounds because of the threat it poses? Personally, hurling is up there with Jai Alai/Pelota: A truly great sport that we would all love to play but alas few of us will ever manage. I think that's why the GAA invented 'Gaelic' football as a game that anyone could pick up.

[wexfordclockend]

Gaelic Football & Rugby are OK I enjoy watching them but in my view are not in the same level of great entertainment as Hurling & Soccer!

Anyway back to the topic in hand! I agree with most of this articleCroker

As for the Hurling split Splintergroup it appears that most of Munster (apart from Kerry) & South Leinster would side with Hurling leaving the Bogballers with Croker & the Hurling side with Thurles for the finals. This has been discussed at greater length than I can manage to post here.

[Donal81]

I know people who love Black women, Black music, Black anything, but just don't want them in their country because they fear for the identity of Britain/Ireland/take your pick, and not because they don't like Blacks. Didn't I mention that they like their women, music and have a token one they talk to everyone about. Of course they're not racist.

So I insulted your friends. Well, nice people I'm sure they are, I'm judging them on what you are stating about them. 'They love soccer but don't want to see gaelic games suffer through Croke Park.' Hmmm??? Still hypocrites from where I'm standing. Or bigots if you prefer.

Racism has nothing to do with the examples that I'm talking about, you either know it or are seriously deluded and shame on you for using it. "Still hypocrites...or bigots if you prefer." How the hell is someone a bigot against soccer or against English or whatever it is they're supposed to be biogted against if they follow soccer? You can't accept for one second that someone might be concerned about the effect on GAA if Croker is opened? Why did Limerick GAA support the opening of Croke Park and then change their minds? Momentarily relapsed bigots, is that it?

As for your 'feigned ignorance' of the GAA spreading the game being an accusation of lying? More an accusation of ignorance although whatever way you take it is fine by me. You state that having not lived abroad excuses you that the news of attempts of spreading the GAA gospel is naturally beyond you, someone that clearly suggests he has his finger on the pulse of GAA thinking (my mates, my mate's website etc.)

How do you write such tripe? Feign means to pretend or fake, in case you didn't know. I don't know anything of the GAA's attempts or lack thereof in spreading the games, so what? I never said I did. It doesn't have anything in the slightest to do with my argument that not all those opposed to opening Croker are bigoted, not on iota.

In the same way that you said

You suggest to speak as a GAA person

and let's not forget

Because you're the one saying it's all down to fear of competition from sports.

You're justing making things up. I do not claim to have my finger on the pulse of GAA thinking and I never did so stop putting words in my mouth. What I do claim is that I know plenty of people associated with the GAA who have a genuine fear that the games might suffer.

Yet all you have to do is see the list of votes for the GAA congress or the lack of international competition to find out Gaelic games are confined to areas of 20C Irish migration. It's pretty obvious to anyone that either the GAA has attempted proselytising and failed miserably or hasn't bothered at all. My example in Birmingham suggests it's the latter. Why? Because a lone individual with minimum help above county level successfully lobbied secular schools to take on the sport in one part of Britain. Point is, if the GAA people are so worried about their games suffering why don't they do what every other sport does and move into new markets?

I don't know why they don't move into new markets. I don't know why they don't attempt to follow Irish dancing and make the game global. I'm not in the GAA and have never considered this before, to be honest. All I know in relation to this argument is that there are decent people out there who are not bigoted and want to see Croke Park stay the way it is, I can personally attest to that. You have examples of GAA bigots, that's cool, I've never doubted they exist. In fact, I'm sure there are loads of them who think I'm a west Brit and nothing more. But to say that the entire 'keep Croker closed' camp is bigoted is just incorrect.

[lopez]

Oh dear! Time for another browse through Asian wives

Racism has nothing to do with the examples that I'm talking about, you either know it or are seriously deluded and shame on you for using it. "Still hypocrites...or bigots if you prefer."

Yes they do as both are excused as merely down to fear.

Why did Limerick GAA support the opening of Croke Park and then change their minds? Momentarily relapsed bigots, is that it?

Perhaps they had a change of staff on the decision board.

How do you write such tripe?

I've been meaning to ask you the same thing.

Feign means to pretend or fake, in case you didn't know. I don't know anything of the GAA's attempts or lack thereof in spreading the games, so what? I never said I did. It doesn't have anything in the slightest to do with my argument that not all those opposed to opening Croker are bigoted, not on iota.

Feign means that you are faking ignorance of the GAA policy of expansion. For someone that has been banging on about 'genuine fears for the game,' this 'I know nothing about it' policy strikes me as b*llocks. Take it whatever way you like. As for the connection with the debate at hand, it certainly does. You're saying that your friends believe the games are under threat by opening up Croke Park. Surely some compensation for this ridiculous notion could be gained by moving onto 'soccer's' turf abroad. It's been successfull in Birmingham as I'm repeating ad nauseaum.

You're justing making things up. I do not claim to have my finger on the pulse of GAA thinking and I never did so stop putting words in my mouth. What I do claim is that I know plenty of people associated with the GAA who have a genuine fear that the games might suffer.

And I know some people who have a 'genuine' fear of immigration. Should I defend them? And to me, you do give the impression that you have your finger on the pulse of the GAA.

I don't know why they don't move into new markets. I don't know why they don't attempt to follow Irish dancing and make the game global.

So despite all these 'genuine fears' for the survival of the GAA you have never asked why the GAA doesn't spread the game, 'go global' as you say? FFS!

[Éanna]

maybe the mods.can put a poll on here,to see who on here wants to see Croker opened up?

I will put a poll up on this thread so. Maybe that will end all the squabbling. This thread has become impossible to read

[SIZE=5]FYI The poll is public, i.e. people can see who voted what way.[/SIZE]

[Donal81]

Feign means that you are faking ignorance of the GAA policy of expansion. For someone that has been banging on about 'genuine fears for the game,' this 'I know nothing about it' policy strikes me as b*llocks. Take it whatever way you like. As for the connection with the debate at hand, it certainly does. You're saying that your friends believe the games are under threat by opening up Croke Park. Surely some compensation for this ridiculous notion could be gained by moving onto 'soccer's' turf abroad. It's been successfull in Birmingham as I'm repeating ad nauseaum.

And I know some people who have a 'genuine' fear of immigration. Should I defend them? And to me, you do give the impression that you have your finger on the pulse of the GAA.

So despite all these 'genuine fears' for the survival of the GAA you have never asked why the GAA doesn't spread the game, 'go global' as you say? FFS!

FFS nothing. I never said I have genuine fears for GAA but that I know that these people aren't opposed out of bigotry, that was my argument. You chose to take my words that way, that's your problem, nothing I've written here presents me as an authority on the GAA as I never pretended to be.

I'm a soccer fan first and a casual GAA fan second. If the GAA doesn't spread the game, why should I have thought about it before now?

Bring in immigration all you want but this doesn't make these people who you've never spoken to bigots. Why do you think you know what these people are thinking?

Another person I spoke to coaches in underage soccer and underage GAA, I'm not going to call him a bigot, hypocrite or whatever, he does a lot more for promoting soccer than I do and plenty of people on this site, I'm sure. I disagree with their argument, I think the GAA will survive just fine and that, no matter what GAA voters think of the FAI or the IRFU, professionalism vs amateurism etc, they could have some sympathy for soccer supporters when Lansdowne Road closes. This doesn't take away the fact that reasons for opposition other than bigotry exist.

They say they have a genuine fear which can't really be proved or disproved as it's in the future, it doesn't sound ridiculous to me that they would be concerned for competitve reasons about Croke Park opening, I never thought to ask them about spreading the game globally as I didn't suspect them of secretly hiding a bigotry of the garrison games that they secretly detest and that they think they're more Irish than me because of what sports they follow and I don't. I guess I'm just naiive then, thanks for setting me straight.

[Thunderblaster]

Soccer is a gentlemans game played by ruffians, rugby is a ruffians game played by gentlemen and Gaelic games is a buffers game played by buffers. That is the popular West of Ireland urban saying.
Anyways, doesn't G.A.A. halls allow indoor soccer to be played on their premises and how many times have we seen community grounds where soccer and G.A.A. is played on the ONE PITCH. This makes a mockery of the stupid Rule 42 that has as much relevance in a modern Irish society as wipers on a motorbike.

[Donal81]

Cheers;Would Implore everyone to vote..........my own view has been tainted by the anti-GAA slant.

How has it been tainted?

I'll definitely vote although I can't see too many people on this site saying they want Croker closed.

[roboyle]

Soccer is a gentlemans game played by ruffians, rugby is a ruffians game played by gentlemen and Gaelic games is a buffers game played by buffers. That is the popular West of Ireland urban saying.

Ehh, I don't think I've ever heard someone from the West of Ireland use the word 'ruffian' - that's an old England word.

[Pat O' Banton]

Ehh, I don't think I've ever heard someone from the West of Ireland use the word 'ruffian' - that's an old England word.

The Rugbo and football bit of the saying is taken from Oscar Wilde.

To much useless knowlege for his own good RISSC

[gspain]

Interesting reading on www.anfearrua.ie - main GAA site

http://www.anfearrua.ie/ViewSectionD...asp?docid=1320

http://www.anfearrua.ie/ViewSectionDetail.asp?docid=50

I think it was D81 who recommended the site.

If the main opposition is that football and rugby will benefit to the detriment of the GAA from opening it up. Could somebody articulate the anti argument or provide a decent link to it. Most of it seems to be knocking the pro opening argument. There is also the argument that the "pot of gold" won't be as lucrative as predicted but surely that is up for discussion.

BTW I do accept fully that it is the GAA's stadium and that there can be no CPOs or retrospective pre-conditions put on the public money given to the GAA. It is the GAA and GAA alone who should make the decision. However I also along with the 53% in the Indo poll believe the GAA should never get another cent of public money if they keep it closed and that any organisation that sponsors the GAA in such circumstances will go way down in my estimation and I will actively seek to support competitiors.