No Football or Rugby at Croke Park

[Macy]

I even get english people slaging the GAA off for this issue but I don't see Twickenham having England games / FA cup / League cup finals there while Wembley is rebulit?

It's not in the RFU rule book that they can't though. They failed to reach agreement for football - a big difference imo.

[gspain]

Whilst I think the Rugby & Soccer teams should be playing at Croker while Lansdowne is rebuilt I have major reservations regarding both FAI & IRFU.

I even get english people slaging the GAA off for this issue but I don't see Twickenham having England games / FA cup / League cup finals there while Wembley is rebulit?

These two (FAI & IRFU) have failed to invest in stadia over the decades not just Dalymount/Lansdowne but most provinical gounds as well for example Munster can only play in front of 17,000 fans in big matches.

In fact of all the money from decades world cups / 6 nations / Euros & friendly internationals none appears to have been put aside /invested for upgading stadia.

Go to the goverment & tell them you have X amount of cash & they will give you more to finish the job. Thats what the GAA does!

I know there are people on here who hate the GAA & its sports, (why ask to use its stadium then?) fair enough but if the FAI / IRFU was run the same way there would be a decent stadium built by now!

Regarding the GAA I am one of the growing numbers that would perfer Hurling to split from Gaelic Football / GAA .

I do not see Hurling surviving & expanding in those counties where football is dominant. In 4 or 5 counties Hurling is on its deathbed.

The F.A.I. did try to build a stadium. The government forced them to stop and row in behind Abbottstown. the rest is history.

Twickenham is available if the English FA want it. Wales played home rugby Internationals at Wembley and the FA Cup Final is played at a rugby ground. No other "sporting" organisation refuses to make it's facilities available to other sports. However no other "sporting" organisation has policies on the "struggle for national liberation".

The GAA are entitled to do what they like with their facilities however they should not be entitled to continue to receive public money considering the hundreds of millions that will be lost to the exchequer if our home football and rugby games are played in Britain.

[Macy]

If you call what they managed to do 'trying to build a stadium', then I too should point out that I tried to build a stadium once. Well, I drew a picture of one when I was about 9. But that's as good as the FAI managed, and I didn't even get to lie to everyone and say all the seats were sold and my credit card debt cleared...

Conor, the lies about seat sales only started when the FAI were forced into trying to go it alone with no Government funding at all, whilst at the same time the promises of millions for rowing in behind Abbotstown. If you want to start talking about stadium lies, where do you want me to start on FF?

[Donal81]

The FAI have never seriously attempted to build their own stadium. They approached the government in the same pathetic, mismanaged, amateur fashion that they always handle things. Bertie may well have done a number on them with Abbotstown - what were they expecting, honesty? - but that was only a number of years ago. Considering the increase both in the interest in Irish soccer and the increase in the profile of soccer in general, they never managed to make one concrete proposal and realise the benefits of having their own stadium on their balance sheet. Idiots.

As for Croke Park, we'd be doing well to remember that it's not a national stadium and never has been. It's a GAA stadium, not an Olympic Stadium or a Millenium Stadium for general use. While the GAA received much State-funding, so do so many sporting organisations and it doesn't allow the tax payer to determine how they operate. I love soccer and GAA and would love to see soccer in Croker but I don't think referring to the GAA as rednecks and banging on about how sectarian they are will change their mind.

It's their stadium, for better or worse, and the sooner people realise this, the better. If we want to see Ireland and France in Croker, we better accept where they're coming from. Shouting abuse at them won't help anything.

The lack of debate in the GAA is pathetic for an organisation which prides itself on its grassroots. The organisation clearly wants to talk about it. How a small group can prevent this is beyond me.

[gspain]

The FAI have never seriously attempted to build their own stadium. They approached the government in the same pathetic, mismanaged, amateur fashion that they always handle things. Bertie may well have done a number on them with Abbotstown - what were they expecting, honesty? - but that was only a number of years ago. Considering the increase both in the interest in Irish soccer and the increase in the profile of soccer in general, they never managed to make one concrete proposal and realise the benefits of having their own stadium on their balance sheet. Idiots.

As for Croke Park, we'd be doing well to remember that it's not a national stadium and never has been. It's a GAA stadium, not an Olympic Stadium or a Millenium Stadium for general use. While the GAA received much State-funding, so do so many sporting organisations and it doesn't allow the tax payer to determine how they operate. I love soccer and GAA and would love to see soccer in Croker but I don't think referring to the GAA as rednecks and banging on about how sectarian they are will change their mind.

It's their stadium, for better or worse, and the sooner people realise this, the better. If we want to see Ireland and France in Croker, we better accept where they're coming from. Shouting abuse at them won't help anything.

The lack of debate in the GAA is pathetic for an organisation which prides itself on its grassroots. The organisation clearly wants to talk about it. How a small group can prevent this is beyond me.

So we should stay silent about sectarianism and doff our caps and please Mr Bigot can we use your stadium.

There is a sectarian element in the GAA. Not the majority but they hijack the GAA for political and sectarian purposes.

Judging by the smiles tonight Sean Kelly and Bertie have thwarted the bigots tonight but they'll be waiting in the long grass come congress.

[deadman]

i hear - good authority here - THE motion is through

but i don't think even a motion about an all ireland side is practically on any level.

no need to start another discussion on this - i'm sure there's plenty of that in the foot.ie annals somewhere -

and the IFA would only joke, as they have done in the past, that of course they'd welcome the FAI back with open arms if they wanted to "return" under the control of the IFA

[Superhoops]

It's their stadium, for better or worse, and the sooner people realise this, the better. If we want to see Ireland and France in Croker, we better accept where they're coming from. Shouting abuse at them won't help anything.

Even if the GAA agree to open up CP, there are still likely to be restrictions on playing soccer and rugby games there. Rugby may not be too bad as it is usually played weekends but with many soccer internationals being played midweek (France for example) there are other practical reasons which may prevent such games taking place:
- planning permission did not include provision for midweek evening fixtures
- the local residents are likelty to object as such games would breach the terms of the agreement reached with them.
- the Garda will probably object because of traffic congestion, especially with the congestion in that area due to the Port Tunnel work and the lack of any parking provisions. On big GAA days, there are usually some parking facilities at Clonliffe College, I don't believe these are likely to be available, especially in college term.
- are there flloodlights in CP? Not an insurmountable problem but no doubt there will be a debate as to who pays.

So, not entirely in the hands of GAA.

[Donal81]

So we should stay silent about sectarianism and doff our caps and please Mr Bigot can we use your stadium.

There is a sectarian element in the GAA. Not the majority but they hijack the GAA for political and sectarian purposes.

There may well be a sectarian element in the GAA but that doesn't mean the FAI has a right to Croke Park. Referring to the GAA as Mr Bigot is exactly what I'm talking about.

[gspain]

There may well be a sectarian element in the GAA but that doesn't mean the FAI has a right to Croke Park. Referring to the GAA as Mr Bigot is exactly what I'm talking about.

The F.A.I. have no rights to Croke Park. I've never argued that. The taxpayer has a right to se epublic money spent properly and in future particularly if hundreds of millions of euro and hundreds of jobs are lost to this economy.

It is not just a sectarian element in the GAA it is rules and policies of the organisation.

However we should no stay silent about just so we can use their grounds.

Is it acceptable that 11 yearolds play for the Gerard and Martin Harte Memorial Cup? - 2 IRA members killed on Active service in 1988. Can you imagine the outcry if 11 yearolds were playing football for the Billy Wright memorial Cup in Portadown?

Is it acceptable the the official policy of the GAA is still "To Support the struggle for national liberation"

Is it acceptable that the GAA's main trophy is used by the Tyrone captain Peter Canavan in a photo op with former IRA man Joe Cahill? Not to mind he was happy to bring the cup to Belfast but not to an Omagh secondary school.

Is it acceptable that the then Tyrone captain Sean Teague and the same Peter Canavan appear in GAA kit in SF/IRA election literature using the GAA logo and not a word said in public by the GAA on the incident.

Is it acceptable that Casement Park is opened up for IRA rallies?

I could go on.

There will always be a sectarian element in the GAA. There is a sectarian and racist element in the crowd at Lansdowne Road too but the F.A.I. for all their faults do not have any sectarian or racist policies.

[gspain]

I'm not referring to specific instances although I've ehard the odd throwaway remark in my time.

Simply there is a sectarian element in society and a racist element - very obvious in the treatment of foreigners. I witnessed a crowd shout racist abuse at 2 young Chinese girls who tried to stop a truck driver do a runner after damaging their car. Most of the 20 onlookers took up the abuse once one person told them they should go back to their own country. I think we're more tolerant than Britain or france but there is still a an undercurrent of bigotry among a certain section.

Now my point is no doubt some of this element go to Lansdowne road. It is not obvious at Lansdowne road. I'm sure it is not obvious at Croke Park.

The difference is the F.A.I. do not have any sectarian or racist policies and the GAA do have sectarian policies. It should be about sport.

Begrudgingly I would accept people are guilty of 'sectarian'views @ LR......that'd be many of the crowd(most Celtic fans & Their detractors,who seem to dislike them with equal zeal!),but overt racism @ LR......never?

Unless you're counting a substantial portion of the crowd,25+,who can remember the disgusting behaviour of the Tans,a decade ago yesterday.....a wonder that no-one was killed,IMO.

As for the GAA,as Lopez(in ano.thread) & I said before,the GAA will be inevitably tied to the history of a good while yet.You have to view the GAA,in the context of which it's existed,esp.in the osc........it may not appear or seem very open-minded.However,consider the enviroment under which it's operated & that a no.of its' member have been taken out by Crown forces & you can see some reason for their relative paranoia.

I dont generally agree with this,but ultimately,instead of us all sniping on here,we should start up an online petition & publicise this to the national Irish media!I know of 1-2 sympathetic ears,who could help set the ball in motion............

[joey B]

It is pure bigotry, the GAA had no problem letting Muhammed ALI box there.

[lopez]

...I witnessed a crowd shout racist abuse at 2 young Chinese girls who tried to stop a truck driver do a runner after damaging their car. Most of the 20 onlookers took up the abuse once one person told them they should go back to their own country. I think we're more tolerant than Britain or france but there is still a an undercurrent of bigotry among a certain section...

With the exception outside the George & Dragon on some scummy estate in Oldham or Bradford etc., I'd have to say I can't imagine that this incident would happen in Britain. Not because there are no racists but that the first one would be given dirty looks by the others.

[gspain]

With the exception outside the George & Dragon on some scummy estate in Oldham or Bradford etc., I'd have to say I can't imagine that this incident would happen in Britain. Not because there are no racists but that the first one would be given dirty looks by the others.

This happened just up form Doyle's Corner on either the first Tuesday in February or March last year. Obviously a respectable area. I called the guards to sort out the traffic dispute which they did in a fair and evenhanded manner as expected. The truck driver wasn't racist but did try and avoid responsibility although I heard afterwards that truck drivers can side swipe a car and not even know it.

It was a woman in her 60's that made the initial comment and a few of varying ages followed her.

I imagine such incidents are rare.

[Éanna]

It is pure bigotry, the GAA had no problem letting Muhammed ALI box there.

Is boxing a 32-county sport? Don't the GAA say that they only want 32 county sports in their grounds? If they were to allow rugby and not football, that would be fine by me, but they're just hypocrites right now

[footballplease]

Probably jumping the gun, but if we do get to play the two big autumn games at Croker, we may have a problem with the decider against the swiss scum as the the game is scheduled for a Wed night.

[gspain]

Probably jumping the gun, but if we do get to play the two big autumn games at Croker, we may have a problem with the decider against the swiss scum as the the game is scheduled for a Wed night.

France is also scheduled for a wednesday night. Floodlights aren't really an issue - we can play on a wednesday afternoon - did that often enough in the 80's and early 90's.

I cannot see any of the current games being moved even IF Croke Park is opened up and that is a huge IF. Sean Kelly has won one battle with the backwoodsmen but not the war. There are some very capable guys in the GAA totally opposed to opening Croke Park and they will do what they must to scupper this.

The GAA may only open Croke Park on trial basis while Lansdowne is being redeveloped - gets them off the hook with the government re the money lost to the economy and may be allowed by a simple majority rather than 2/3rds majority.

Anyway I would be reluctant to play France in a new stadium. Lansdowne for all its faults is our home ground and we are very strong there in familiar surroundings. Croke Park is not ideal for football as the pitch is far too big hence the crowd will be further away. I would rather stay in Lansdowne for France and Switzerland and take full advantage of home advantage to qualify for Germany. I know this is selfish to the extent that I will have a ticket and 45,000 fans would get tickets if it was moved. However we need every advantage for these games.

While Lansdowne is being redeveloped we should play in Croke Park if it is available.

[green army]

i dont know if its true or not but i heard that the stands in croke park are too steep and contraviene ufea regulations. does anyone know if its true or not. i think it could b bullsiht.

[anto1208]

simple fact is the gaa are a bunch of narow minded rasists , simple as that .
its nothing to do with foreign games its english games they dont want , if i can see american football being played in a gaa ground then why not rugby or football .

stuff about the stand is rubbish uefa have said that the second its opened they want to hold the champs league final there

[mypost]

As for Croke Park, It's a GAA stadium, not an Olympic Stadium or a Millenium Stadium for general use. While the GAA received much State-funding, so do so many sporting organisations and it doesn't allow the tax payer to determine how they operate. I love soccer and GAA and would love to see soccer in Croker but I don't think referring to the GAA as rednecks and banging on about how sectarian they are will change their mind.

It's their stadium, for better or worse, and the sooner people realise this, the better. If we want to see Ireland and France in Croker, we better accept where they're coming from. Shouting abuse at them won't help anything.

The lack of debate in the GAA is pathetic for an organisation which prides itself on its grassroots. The organisation clearly wants to talk about it. How a small group can prevent this is beyond me.

No, it isn't a GAA stadium, it's the Irish people's stadium. We, Irish taxpayers funded it, so we should have a say about who uses it.

Incompetent O' Donoghue, was on TV3 News last night, saying that the decision to have a debate on Rule 42 was great for the "democracy" of the GAA. Sorry, but you don't put the words "GAA" and "democracy" in the same sentence. They don't know what it means! This Communist-run organisation showed their contempt for democracy last year, by dismissing all the proposed motions on Rule 42 on technicalities. They have resisted all attempts to change their precious rule in the past, no matter what that they stand to benefit from a change in their policy. It can only be made at their annual shindig every April, when it suits them, not the country. That ain't democracy. This issue doesn't need a debate at all, the stadium should be opened up immediately and unconditionally to other sports, in the national interest.

If it is changed this year, it will be impossible for Ireland to play rugby and football games without floodlights until 2006 at the earliest, at the world's most famous 3-sided stadium. With the rugby team having finished their 6 nations campaign, and Ireland's WC games against France, and Switzerland to be played on Wednesdays, games will have to remain at Lansdowne for now, unless the FAI think that they can fill Croker with 2pm kick-offs on working weekdays. Unlikely!!

[gspain]

Unfortunately the government handed over public money to the gAA without any strings attached so it is their stadium. They can do what they like with it.

However if the bigots are allowed to win in the GAA they should be aware of the consequences and this should be no future government funding if they have the guts to stand up to them. I do think it was significant that Bertie Ahern was on tv with Sean Kelly on Tuesday night and hardly a coincidence.

Furthermore if businesses in this country (and Dublin in particular but many towns all the way to Dundalk, Portlaoise and Wicklow) are to lose hundreds of millions of euro then the organisations that sponsor the GAA must be held to account. What is Diageo's policy on the "struggle for national liberation". how do the Bank of Ireland feel about 11 yearolds playing for a cup named after 2 terrorists killed on "active service"?

Note one argument put forward is that there is more money been given to Lansdowne than the €150 million+ the GAA got. This is correct however the government will own a stake in Lansdowne and can obviously influence what is played there. The pitch will be big enough for GAA etc. Of course that won't be necessary for the government to intervene because the IRFU and F.A.I. like every other non sectarian sporting organisation on this planet would gladly offer the facilities to other sports for a fair rent if they were not needed at the time.