Austria v Rep of Ireland - Ernst Happel Stadium, Vienna - Sat, 12th Nov 2016 - WCQ

[samhaydenjr]

If we score 20 points (drawing all remaining fixtures with our rivals and beating the lower seeds) we will finish at least second. I suspect that if we were to draw with our rivals, it will force Wales hand in Serbia, and I suspect Serbia could finish with 22.

I'm pretty sure I made this point earlier. I have no doubt Serbia will kick on now. Serbian confidence is never low, but they surely would not have been arrogant coming into this group given their recent travails, and compared to their neighbours who have been very impressive in recent campaigns. However the manner in which we allowed them back into the game in Belgrade, and their result with Austria, combined with the optimism of their World youth cup win, will surely focus them to look to qualify from a group that is eminently qualifiable from. The old line of never give a sucker a break comes to mind. they are going to be very hard to stop I think now. This is where having a derby away in the final qualifier is a kick in the teeth. Wales might be out of contention to qualify going into the last round, but they'll still want to get beat us.

For bedivilment, I have the following table going into the last round of games:

Ire 19
Ser 19
Wal 16
Aus 12
Geo 5
Mol 1

I don't think Georgia are finished putting dents in other teams' plans just yet - let's just hope it's not us. Even Moldova might nick a point at home if one of the other three is in any way complacent.

[Bottle of Tonic]

If we score 20 points (drawing all remaining fixtures with our rivals and beating the lower seeds) we will finish at least second. I suspect that if we were to draw with our rivals, it will force Wales hand in Serbia, and I suspect Serbia could finish with 22.

I'm pretty sure I made this point earlier. I have no doubt Serbia will kick on now. Serbian confidence is never low, but they surely would not have been arrogant coming into this group given their recent travails, and compared to their neighbours who have been very impressive in recent campaigns. However the manner in which we allowed them back into the game in Belgrade, and their result with Austria, combined with the optimism of their World youth cup win, will surely focus them to look to qualify from a group that is eminently qualifiable from. The old line of never give a sucker a break comes to mind. they are going to be very hard to stop I think now. This is where having a derby away in the final qualifier is a kick in the teeth. Wales might be out of contention to qualify going into the last round, but they'll still want to get beat us.

For bedivilment, I have the following table going into the last round of games:

Ire 19
Ser 19
Wal 16
Aus 12
Geo 5
Mol 1

I think a win for Wales last night might have been the better result. Serbia are the real danger. They could easily scalp us in Dublin and we need to try and keep them at arms length. I also expect them to power on through the group now. A home win v Wales in the next game is massive now.

[OwlsFan]

We should not get too carried away with this result, Austria's recent form has been pretty poor, one win in the last 6 if you include this game.
1 point from their last 4 home games.

It is being reported that Janko has signed an advertising deal with Specsavers.

If you don't mind, I'll get carried away with the result (as opposed to the performance). By my count (open to correction), I have witnessed Ireland fail to win away since Scotland in 1987 against a group challenger on about 30 consecutive occasions. It's a list as long as my arm and includes Spain, Hungary, Denmark, Romania, Portugal, Italy, Israel, Croatia, Yugoslavia, Serbia, Russia, England, Poland, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Holland, Wales, Scotland, Turkey etc etc Of course they almost blew it again (I was at the game and I suspect George H was already counting his chickens in the 94th minute) but this time the fates smiled kindly on us and we actually won. It's a huge result for the group and for the monkey who can get off our back and climb on to someone else's.

The players I was impressed with was Randolph who despite my doubts performed well, the back four (not sure why Duffy fell back to the line in the last 30 seconds rather than marking his man), Hendrick and of course McLean.

For once we did not have to leave the ground to the smiles and condescending looks of the locals, who for a change with downcast eyes avoided our smug expressions and scurried off with their little flags in to the cold and biting wind. Their team reminded me of ours when we played them after our poor Euros in 2012 - it was role reversal.

Enjoy, enjoy, enjoy. Imagine how old you might be if you have to wait as long for the next one. I'll be 91 !!

[paul_oshea]

Another example of how our world doesn't crumble without Glenn Whelan too. Not meaning to pick on him but we're a better team without him. Meyler was excellent, Arter had a really good second half.

I've been trying to remind myself of what i wanted to say on here, and against whom. I should have known it would be CD who needed to be righted again, but so tired from the short trip and travelling I couldn't remember! Anyway thats busted another myth from said poster. We looked much better without him there, the team improved. No doubt it will be twisted. There was only one time when I thought Meyler got it wrong was when he went out to the wing, and left a huge space in behind, Whelan would never do that, he wouldn't have the speed to get out there that quickly for a start. Having slighted Meyler slightly it was exactly the same move that setup the goal, so you cant realy have your cake and eat it.

I'm not going to be negative at all. I don't agree with Geysir we have had much worse games. We played well, but halfway through the second half one of the Dublin lads just goes these guys are completely impotent up top, no striker their not going to score, I told him behave himself but he was spot on. However I don't agree with CD that they didnt look like scoring, if anyone else got on the end of those chances instead of wanko then we would have been punished. They easily did enough to level.

Hoolahan has been both immensely frustrating and satisfying to watch. If he had messis strenght I think he would be a top top player, but he gets budged off the ball way too easily and caught in (dis)possession, people(stuts etc) pointed to the Italy game in Craven Cottage as an example where he didn't get dispossessed and was like a little terrier, but one swallow doesn't make a summer. He still has a great eye for a ball and its a real shame Trappatoni didn't let himself and robbie do damage together like reid and keane did for about a year or so. O'Neill seems to be happy enough and to trust him enough to let these things go against what he brings to the game and how he affects our overall performance.

I doubt trap has much interest in watching but it really sticks the boot in, we are playing decent football and getting results to back that up. Bosnia, Germany, Austria and Italy regardless of how the game/outcome/form affected them we still beat them.

There was no better result than Serbia and Wales drawing, simply because Serbia need to come to us and would have been happy with a draw if they had won at Wales, now more than likely that will not be enough for them, unless we capitulate in the next 2 games.

I think the catalyst, or perhaps just the difference between this and any other(aside from Austrian poor finishing) game where we went ahead was, for 10 minutes after scoring we kept the ball much better, we pushed slightly higher up the field and never gave them time on the ball. This means O'Neill has been working on this and has tried to implement a strategy to directly affect this malaise. We took the sting out of what would have been relentless Austrian pressure and after those 10 minutes they were less confident and more panicky. I really hope thats the start of things to come.

We now look like a strong squad. We look like we have ready made replacements to step in at any time. I'm still concerned about a few key areas, no less Wards defending against decent opposition but at least we know whoever comes in is generally going to be just as able as the man he replaces.

I'm not worried about the Serbia result away now, I thought that would be the thing that got me but with this win we have really opened a gap. Assuming we don't lose to wales or if we do win the other fixture then I see us getting second, if we beat wales and dont lose then I see us topping the group. I really hope Austria can kick start their campaign again in the new year, but I think they need to get rid of Koller, the players seem to be out of ideas he has been around 5 or so years and I've always believed 2 campaigns is enough for a manager at international level, unless he can bring in a new bunch of players every campaign. He is becoming stale, and they need some new motivation, they really lack confidence. Defensively they are very poor. I think with Long at home, and McClean on the wing we can really trouble them with pace at home. IF we are setup smart then I think we will beat them.

[Charlie Darwin]

Oh joy, I'm the inspiration for another posh post.

[paul_oshea]

Just thinking - did McGoldrick touch the ball after he came on?

The camera angle being so far out made it hard to spot individual players at times, but I can't remember a single contribution he made.

Did the same in the pre-Euros game against Belarus as I recall. Not sold on him at all unfortunately.

I really didnt get that. HImself and randolph are a bit too cool. In Randolphs case, the coolness brings an assurdness out in our defence and gives them confidence. In McGoldricks case when we are 1 0 up and trying to hold onto the lead and the ball, swaggering around all cool, like on a Milan runway isn't what you want from a player. He just laboured and jogged around. Really bizare subsitution, other than some sort of reward. O'Neill should have definitely stuck on Doyle - who must feel hard done by.

[paul_oshea]

Nah, it's hiding. It's a comma chameleon...

Great post strange one, probably my favourite post on here ever!! Miss your contribution around here also :/

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I really didnt get that. HImself and randolph are a bit too cool. In Randolphs case, the coolness brings an assurdness out in our defence and gives them confidence. In McGoldricks case when we are 1 0 up and trying to hold onto the lead and the ball, swaggering around all cool, like on a Milan runway isn't what you want from a player. He just laboured and jogged around. Really bizare subsitution, other than some sort of reward. O'Neill should have definitely stuck on Doyle - who must feel hard done by.

"Nonchalant" I believe is the word I used to describe him once upon a time.

[paul_oshea]

I could pull out a classic CD quote or paraphrase "I call it being black" or something to that affect. Btw get the irony before you accuse me of any racial undertones. I think he is just one of those lazy type players who exudes plenty of inner believe and confidence, which leads to a certian selfishness, especially when we are the sum of our parts, a team and not a group of individuals.

I watched the game last night again when I got home, and I remember thinking at the time that Wes cannot physically make that pass, but the defender turned and ran allowing Wes to curl the ball around him, had he not done that Wes wouldn't have been able to play such a perfectly weighted and positioned pass.

The James McClean queen chant is a bit worrying, I don't know what category it falls into but I hope its not that well sang in Cardiff.

Also I think I saw/heard some father with his son telling him to stamp on the Austrian flag, I thought it was the other way around but the person with me said he told him to stamp on it. I hope he wasn't because there were also Austrians around. Either way the kid did stamp on it

[geysir]

Oh joy, I'm the inspiration for another posh post.

I should take the opportunity here to mention that I do recall Charlie accurately predicting (contrary to more sage opinions) that Austria were going to be cráp in this campaign and so it has transpired.
Of all the teams we have played, never has one folded so easy after we had taken the lead and they didn't cop on until too late that they didn't have to work too hard to create a few real chances, which were spectacularly fluffed with aplomb.

[paul_oshea]

It wasn't about copping on. We played well and pressed much better for 10 minutes after the goal. We normally wouldn't do that. Then we had taken the sting out of things. They were always going to have a purple patch but aside from a few clear cut chances we defended well and generally higher up the pitch.

[Charlie Darwin]

I could pull out a classic CD quote or paraphrase "I call it being black" or something to that affect. Btw get the irony before you accuse me of any racial undertones. I think he is just one of those lazy type players who exudes plenty of inner believe and confidence, which leads to a certian selfishness, especially when we are the sum of our parts, a team and not a group of individuals.

I watched the game last night again when I got home, and I remember thinking at the time that Wes cannot physically make that pass, but the defender turned and ran allowing Wes to curl the ball around him, had he not done that Wes wouldn't have been able to play such a perfectly weighted and positioned pass.

The James McClean queen chant is a bit worrying, I don't know what category it falls into but I hope its not that well sang in Cardiff.

Also I think I saw/heard some father with his son telling him to stamp on the Austrian flag, I thought it was the other way around but the person with me said he told him to stamp on it. I hope he wasn't because there were also Austrians around. Either way the kid did stamp on it

I have no idea how you got to this point.

[geysir]

It wasn't about copping on. We played well and pressed much better for 10 minutes after the goal. We normally wouldn't do that. Then we had taken the sting out of things. They were always going to have a purple patch but aside from a few clear cut chances we defended well and generally higher up the pitch.

Usually even an average team will convert one of those few clear cut chances and Janko fluffed his lines, that's strong evidence of a team gone bad. All decent teams we have played managed to push us back with ease until they scored one or two themselves. Austria were visibly shaken and cowed by our goal and our attitude afterwards. All Austrian pundits etc point to something gone rotten in the team and point to fragile confidence levels.
The result was brilliant and maybe we have turned a corner on how to manage a game better after going ahead, but that's a case to be proven in the next 6 games against better opposition.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

On Second Captains, Ken Early said Hoolahan and McClean's play for goal reminded him of Ozil/Ronaldo at Madrid.

[paul_oshea]

Usually even an average team will convert one of those few clear cut chances and Janko fluffed his lines, that's strong evidence of a team gone bad. All decent teams we have played managed to push us back with ease until they scored one or two themselves. Austria were visibly shaken and cowed by our goal and our attitude afterwards. All Austrian pundits etc point to something gone rotten in the team and point to fragile confidence levels.
The result was brilliant and maybe we have turned a corner on how to manage a game better after going ahead, but that's a case to be proven in the next 6 games against better opposition.

Yep, the jury is still out with regard to holding a lead, but we have proven so against 3 teams now of higher calibre. To the point about the clear cut chances, Janko was just red rotten useless, just because one player is lacking doesn't mean the whole team are, but I do agree that the team itself were lacking confidence. If arnie found himself in 2 of those positions I think he would have done better - granted he fluffed the shot that Coleman made the block on.

O'Hara made a good observation in his column today:
"Across came Arter to put out the fire before it could ignite with a challenge which didn't even merit a mention in TV commentary, but without it could have been part of the highlights of why Austria were dangerous on the counter-attack.

Of course, Glenn Whelan has performed a similar fire-fighting task admirably, but the difference appears to be that while Whelan - and McCarthy - usually let a player come into their area, Arter actively closes down to regain possession.

It may be one of the reasons why, this time, Ireland didn't just sit back after going in front."

I definitely saw a difference when we went ahead that I have never seen before, again only time will tell though, regardless of the calibre of opposition or the oppositions confidence levels.

[paul_oshea]

On Second Captains, Ken Early said Hoolahan and McClean's play for goal reminded him of Ozil/Ronaldo at Madrid.

Ya i really thought Hoolahan was world class with that pass, but I never heard anyone mention just how good it was, he knew where it was going before he turned, he had that little look. I can only imagine that a player he could have been with messis strength. I think Hoolahan had he played at the highest level from the start of his career would have been a top player playing at a top club. You could put down to him getting caught in possession not being used to so little time in the day in day out games he plays, where he has gained his experience. He would always have that extra yard or half a second. Not at international level. If he had been playing PL from early 20s he would have now erradicated that from his game.

But maybe had he played at that level from early 20s we still wouldn't be seeing the best of him at 34.

[Stuttgart88]

Wow, Paul really remembers everything one ever says on here. I though Wes was excellent at Craven Cottage and very careless and easily dispossessed on Saturday. He turned into trouble and took poor decisions more times in one game than I'd say he'd normally do in 3 or 4. None of this by itself really proves anything. He was, in my opinion, uncharacteristically easy to dispossess on Saturday. I'd point to games like Sweden in Paris where he absolutely wasn't.

[paul_oshea]

Look back over his games Stutts, he is always dispossesed easily, and as I say I point to the fact he has this time when playing in the Championship. When he comes up against it at international level he doesn't get that same time. That's why to the untrained eye it comes across as careless. But he does it in all games, just more often in some than others, that Sweden one they did an Ireland on Ireland for 55 minutes or so, and just sat back and gave us time, normally most teams don't give us that time or space. As I said I think if he started at a younger age in the Premiership and worked on his S&C that side of his game would be a distant memory.

[tricky_colour]

If you don't mind, I'll get carried away with the result (as opposed to the performance). By my count (open to correction), I have witnessed Ireland fail to win away since Scotland in 1987 against a group challenger on about 30 consecutive occasions. It's a list as long as my arm and includes Spain, Hungary, Denmark, Romania, Portugal, Italy, Israel, Croatia, Yugoslavia, Serbia, Russia, England, Poland, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Holland, Wales, Scotland, Turkey etc etc Of course they almost blew it again (I was at the game and I suspect George H was already counting his chickens in the 94th minute) but this time the fates smiled kindly on us and we actually won. It's a huge result for the group and for the monkey who can get off our back and climb on to someone else's.

The players I was impressed with was Randolph who despite my doubts performed well, the back four (not sure why Duffy fell back to the line in the last 30 seconds rather than marking his man), Hendrick and of course McLean.

For once we did not have to leave the ground to the smiles and condescending looks of the locals, who for a change with downcast eyes avoided our smug expressions and scurried off with their little flags in to the cold and biting wind. Their team reminded me of ours when we played them after our poor Euros in 2012 - it was role reversal.

Enjoy, enjoy, enjoy. Imagine how old you might be if you have to wait as long for the next one. I'll be 91 !!

Well you may have too, all I am saying is do not overestimate the result, some is down to our good play but you need to consider the performance
of the opposition Austria, they are not going trough their best spell.

If you roll a dice often enough you will get two sixes in a row, you could put it down to your improved dice rolling skills, but equally you could put it down to luck!

Having said that there were positive thing for us the performance of McClean, Hoolahan and Randolph for starters, However we will come up against teams who have strikers who can head the ball with their eyes open.

[jbyrne]

Well you may have too, all I am saying is do not overestimate the result, some is down to our good play but you need to consider the performance
of the opposition Austria, they are not going trough their best spell.

If you roll a dice often enough you will get two sixes in a row, you could put it down to your improved dice rolling skills, but equally you could put it down to luck!

Having said that there were positive thing for us the performance of McClean, Hoolahan and Randolph for starters, However we will come up against teams who have strikers who can head the ball with their eyes open.

here we go again... as sure as night follows day someone will follow a very decent Irish win and performance with mitigating factors for the opposition. yes Austria didn't have a great game but i thought a lot of that was how we approached the game particularly after the Meyler substitution. i would attribute our wins in the last 12 months against germany, bosnia, italy and now austria to improved dice rolling skills, as you put it yourself, rather than luck. credit where its due please