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Thread: Legends of Tomorrow - Irish youth football reform | RTÉ Prime Time

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    Legends of Tomorrow - Irish youth football reform | RTÉ Prime Time

    https://streamable.com/8cuv 10 minutes long.

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    Nobody has any opinions on this scare piece that aired when we were all basking in the glow of the Dundalk win>

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    Seasoned Pro White Horse's Avatar
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    I watched it today.

    The contention that schoolboy football is doing such a great job was not challenged at all. They contrasted this "success" with crumbling stadia and underinvestment in the LOI. The inference was clear. current affairs pieces on RTE are more like propaganda than a balanced discussion of a topic.

    No mention of Cork's U19s competing in the Europa Youth League. No mention of Dundalk taking homegrown players into the Europa League. No mention of the former LOI players in the national team.

    Someone on the Prime Time staff must be related to someone very involved in schoolboy football.

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    Quote Originally Posted by White Horse View Post
    Someone on the Prime Time staff must be related to someone very involved in schoolboy football.
    Exactly the conclusion I drew from it.

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    A confusing and muddled report. I found it all very unclear. Richie Sadlier becoming the 'go to' guy if you want someone to be against something.

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Any time I've seen a Prime Time special on a subject I know something about (not hugely often, I'll grant), it's been amateur, biased, drivel.

    For example, the one on the Platinum 1 All-Ireland League was basically written by Platinum One.

    An awful show.

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    Like the Fonz. Only a dog. Mr A's Avatar
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    I liked it because watching the schoolboy clubs howl in anguish amuses me.

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    Seasoned Pro legendz's Avatar
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    I had read the following early in the week: http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/s...hs-392504.html

    Prompting me to post:
    Quote Originally Posted by legendz View Post
    I've seen reports that schoolboy clubs are being denied entry. It seems a positive step for the league that it's clubs will work with the better underage players. It also seems a positive approach that areas without a LoI club are allowed an underage representative e.g. Monaghan/Cavan and Kerry.
    Quote Originally Posted by White Horse View Post
    I watched it today.

    The contention that schoolboy football is doing such a great job was not challenged at all. They contrasted this "success" with crumbling stadia and underinvestment in the LOI. The inference was clear. current affairs pieces on RTE are more like propaganda than a balanced discussion of a topic.

    No mention of Cork's U19s competing in the Europa Youth League. No mention of Dundalk taking homegrown players into the Europa League. No mention of the former LOI players in the national team.
    Agreed on all that.
    Quote Originally Posted by White Horse View Post
    Someone on the Prime Time staff must be related to someone very involved in schoolboy football.
    There was a strong hint of that alright. I'm not all too surprised something like that piece was aired.

    Quote Originally Posted by Straightstory View Post
    A confusing and muddled report. I found it all very unclear. Richie Sadlier becoming the 'go to' guy if you want someone to be against something.
    http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/s...hs-392504.html

    The article above offered balanced opinion from schoolboy clubs:

    Kevin’s — who educated current Irish internationals Robbie Brady and Jeff Hendrick (Jack Byrne too) — supplied four players to this Ireland squad. Neil Fox explained the club’s concerns.

    “We would like to join the FAI league but we were refused admission.

    “The likes of ourselves and the other Dublin schoolboy clubs, Joeys, Crumlin, Cherry Orchard, we’re going to lose our players to League of Ireland clubs.

    “Eventually what will happen is a player at five years of age will go into the academy of Shamrock Rovers or Pat’s and go through the system. A lot of these clubs don’t have academies but they will start them.

    “It is a worry. Not to blow our own trumpet, but we are doing a very good job in coaching them. It’s well known we’re doing a good job.” League of Ireland clubs have yet to prove such credentials.
    Paddy Duggan, coach at Gweedore Celtic, who provided Marc Walsh to this Ireland squad, has seen enough youngsters depart for England with a head full of dreams and return broken-hearted six months later, to back the FAI plan, even if it affects his own club.

    “I think the League of Ireland is the best platform. Ply your trade there first and foremost, like Seamus Coleman. Obviously it’s not for everyone, but I think they need to be a little bit more mature and then go across.

    “The pathways are there. League of Ireland at U15 is a great platform for lads to stay with a club until U19, when they’d be more mature and experienced.

    “But it’s starting to eat in here too. You’ve Derry City at one side and Finn Harps and Sligo Rovers on the other side. With pathways for U15s now, I think the clubs will lose them a lot earlier.

    “We have a 3G pitch and great coaches, but I can never see Marc Walsh ever playing senior for Gweedore Celtic. And good luck to the lad, you can’t hold him back.”

    Quote Originally Posted by legendz View Post
    I've seen reports that schoolboy clubs are being denied entry. It seems a positive step for the league that it's clubs will work with the better underage players. It also seems a positive approach that areas without a LoI club are allowed an underage representative e.g. Monaghan/Cavan and Kerry.
    When I posted the above in the U19 section earlier in the week I had been meaning to ask those in the know within LoI circles, how will LoI clubs keep consistency with the good work done by schoolboy clubs? Are LoI clubs and existing schoolboy clubs likely to work together?

    I've been saying for years that LoI clubs need to be more central in the development of the game within their areas. The underage leagues in place and the U15 and the U13 leagues in the pipeline are great steps in that regard. It's very positive as well that the FAI are being sensible in allowing the likes of Monaghan/Cavan and Kerry take part. Hopefully Mayo and other areas without a LoI club might follow.

    While I understand schoolboy clubs concerns, it is only right that LoI clubs take a more active role in the development of the game at underage levels. It comes down to freedom of choice then for which clubs players get involved with. LoI underage leagues can't have outside clubs competing within their league for players unless sensibly as mentioned these areas do not have a LoI team.

    The piece aired was always going to sensationalise. At the same time there are valid questions to ask in terms of if schoolboys clubs have been doing well, will LoI clubs be able to carry on this as well? Do LoI clubs have the resources? It's a debate to be had and an issue to discuss. The Prime Time piece didn't have any debate on the matter. I guess Soccer Republic will?
    A Championship: 4 years - 8 first teams - 0 financially ruined. First Division '14: 7 first teams.
    Opportunity seems lost somewhere in between for new clubs/regions to become part of LoI family.

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    First Team TonyD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Any time I've seen a Prime Time special on a subject I know something about (not hugely often, I'll grant), it's been amateur, biased, drivel.
    .
    Spot on. I find that with most media reports tbh. There have been a few reports dealing with the area I work and and they are usually inaccurate, to a greater or lesser degree.
    Out for a spell, got neglected, lay on the bench unselected.

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    Seasoned Pro White Horse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr A View Post
    I liked it because watching the schoolboy clubs howl in anguish amuses me.
    If Prime Time want to cover schoolboy football, it would be more interesting to trace where all the money from their child trafficking trade goes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by White Horse View Post
    If Prime Time want to cover schoolboy football, it would be more interesting to trace where all the money from their child trafficking trade goes.
    Couldn't agree more. It's disgusting they take small money to send over 15 year olds. I challenged a guy from a dublin schoolboy club about why they took so little money for a kid that went over recently and his answer. ..."he's not that good, he won't make it" so they send him over to come back uneducated and depressed! Can't wait to see the best players taken away from these parasites

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbgawa View Post
    Couldn't agree more. It's disgusting they take small money to send over 15 year olds. I challenged a guy from a dublin schoolboy club about why they took so little money for a kid that went over recently and his answer. ..."he's not that good, he won't make it" so they send him over to come back uneducated and depressed! Can't wait to see the best players taken away from these parasites
    Are LoI clubs going to decline money in similar circumstances?
    A Championship: 4 years - 8 first teams - 0 financially ruined. First Division '14: 7 first teams.
    Opportunity seems lost somewhere in between for new clubs/regions to become part of LoI family.

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    Seasoned Pro White Horse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by legendz View Post
    Are LoI clubs going to decline money in similar circumstances?
    Its not a question of who is more moral.

    A 15 year old has no value to a schoolboy club other than whatever few quid they can get form an English club for him.

    The same player has more value to an LOI club, he may well be good enough for the U17, U19, or ultimately senior team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by legendz View Post
    Are LoI clubs going to decline money in similar circumstances?
    No but if the pathway is there for them through 15 17 and 19 they have a reason to stay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by White Horse View Post
    Its not a question of who is more moral.

    A 15 year old has no value to a schoolboy club other than whatever few quid they can get form an English club for him.

    The same player has more value to an LOI club, he may well be good enough for the U17, U19, or ultimately senior team.
    Exactly.

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    Capped Player nigel-harps1954's Avatar
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    It's terrible. There's no underage structures in place and Irish football is suffering. What we need, is a team performing at the highest level of youth football in Europe, an under-13, 15, 17 and 19 league, youth players progressing on to senior league of Ireland squads, and a senior team playing in European group stages.

    Until we get these things, we'll remain in the dark ages.

    EDIT: Just watched the Prime Time piece. What a load of one-sided sh!te. Your man from St Kevins Boys has a clear anti-LOI agenda and Richie Sadlier really should know better than to peddle garbage like that.
    Last edited by nigel-harps1954; 30/09/2016 at 8:32 PM.

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    Seasoned Pro legendz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954 View Post
    What we need, is a team performing at the highest level of youth football in Europe, an under-13, 15, 17 and 19 league, youth players progressing on to senior league of Ireland squads, and a senior team playing in European group stages.
    Sure that's what the FAI are in the middle of putting in place.
    A Championship: 4 years - 8 first teams - 0 financially ruined. First Division '14: 7 first teams.
    Opportunity seems lost somewhere in between for new clubs/regions to become part of LoI family.

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    Capped Player nigel-harps1954's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by legendz View Post
    Sure that's what the FAI are in the middle of putting in place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gufcfan View Post
    Very poorly structured piece.
    Too little information & lots of innuendo & what was Sadlier doing putting his name on that. I expected much better from him.

    We kept hearing about the few players who went over & made it but nothing about all the hundreds who never got a look in, come back crocked & disillusioned & never play at any decent level again.
    Further what about all the players who have come through the League of Ireland & gone on to have excellent careers elsewhere.
    Not one mention of the success that Cork City have made of their under age structure or of City being the first Irish club to play at under age level in Europe.

    It was obvious that the St Kevins guy had his own agenda.
    I don't blame him for that but he seems to have forgotten the point that the most important aspect of all this is the development of all young players & not just the few that make money for his club.

    All together a poorly put together program which would give the wrong impression to anyone watching who might not know otherwise.

    The Examiner piece that legendz pointed to was much better balanced.
    This piece in the article was noteworthy in that it came from someone who managed Arsenals under age structure for some years..

    "Liam Brady, a product of Kevin’s himself, has mixed feelings on the issue.In the Irish Examiner recently, Brady worried Irish players are falling behind their English counterparts because they are not attending academies early enough and, as a consequence, aren’t exposed to enough coaching hours, at a sufficient standard.
    “We rely on good schoolboy clubs but they don’t always play the kind of football that would develop a technical young player. So by the time our lads are going to England, at 15 or 16, they’re playing catch-up.”

    Paddy Duggan, coach at Gweedore Celtic showed the right attitude in the Examiner article. He realizes the importance of player development.

    "Paddy Duggan, coach at Gweedore Celtic, who provided Marc Walsh to this Ireland squad, has seen enough youngsters depart for England with a head full of dreams and return broken-hearted six months later, to back the FAI plan, even if it affects his own club.
    “I think the League of Ireland is the best platform. Ply your trade there first and foremost, like Seamus Coleman. Obviously it’s not for everyone, but I think they need to be a little bit more mature and then go across."

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    The u15 league announcement today is causing a stir among the child traffickers, from what I see on twitter at least.

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