4 x 4s

[Lionel Ritchie]

Okay that's a fairly inflamatory title I've got there but -they say a persons automobile makes a statement about their personality.
Therefore I would opine that people who drive 4x4/SUVs/jeeps are sociopathic fascists and are devoid of any sense of community, responsibility for the environment or how their actions affect their fellow citizens. ...or maybe they're just a shower of w4nkers!!! discuss.

[noby]

Uhm...I presume you mean urban 4x4 drivers

[Aldini98]

ehhhh I take it your not talking about a plank of wood ?????

[patsh]

I have to say that the vast majority of them are probably decent people, but when they get behind the wheel of their 4x4, most go through some sort of total change. Twice in the last week we have had incidents with 4x4s, and can honestly say that they were 100% in the wrong. I put it down to the fact that they feel they have a bigger, higher, heavier vehicle and thus can bully other road users. It's also time to look seriously at just how much more resources they consume over "ordinary" cars, and whether this should be tolerated.

Ahh, actually they are just a shower of selfish w*nkers.

[dahamsta]

Okay that's a fairly inflamatory title

It was. If you do it again, you'll be banned for a week.

[monutdfc]

I laughed out loud when ICTU proposed a €5000 "vanity tax" on SUV's in their pre-budget submission. Like IBEC would ever let that through! Thought it was a great idea though. Italy were discussing a similar proposal, but that was mainly because none of the Italian car manufacturers make an SUV.

Because the are not classified as domestic cars, they do not have crumple zones, so if you are in a crash with one it would plough through your car as if you crashed into a huge concrete block.

Also, bull bars are illegal, unless they are made of plastic, because in a crash with a pedestrian they are several times more likely to be killed by bull bars than if there were none fitted, even at low speeds. I wonder if the gardai are even aware of that.
And I hate the way the drivers park anywhere because they can - kerbs etc are no impediment.

[Macy]

The only people that should have them are people who genuinely need them - farmers and builders (having driven onto our site in a normal car!). They should be banned from Town centres, and the motor tax should double every 100cc over 2.5 litres.

I would suggest that the vast majority of owners have small dicks. It's the only possible way that they can justify driving them in on the commute to work, from their surburban home....

[fosterdollar]

I would suggest that the vast majority of owners have small dicks. It's the only possible way that they can justify driving them in on the commute to work, from their surburban home....

Don't forget the yummy mummies in their Freelanders bringing the kids right up to the front door of the school whereas the little gits could easily walk or cycle

[Macy]

Don't forget the yummy mummies in their Freelanders bringing the kids right up to the front door of the school whereas the little gits could easily walk or cycle

Forgot about them - too used to getting in work at 8 so that I avoid them clogging up the roads.

[pete]

Apparently SUV (might as well use yankie term) sales up 37% from last year.

I hates them (excluding genuine rural purposes) & would be surprised if most urban drivers of them are actual own them as as domestic vehicles as opposed to some tax write off.

I don't think bullbars are actually illegal which is criminal itself as no point to a pedestrain crumple zone if got metal bars on top of bonnet.

Biggest I seen in Ireland was Ford Explorer which not sold here so had to be imported.

[monutdfc]

I don't think bullbars are actually illegal which is criminal itself as no point to a pedestrain crumple zone if got metal bars on top of bonnet.

You are correct. The UK banned them, or at least tried to ban them. I had thought there was an EU directive, but apparently not.
Crumple zones are not really designed to protect pedestrians but more for an impact with another car or fixed object - the crumple zone is designed to absorb some of the energy from the impact.

[Peadar]

the crumple zone is designed to absorb some of the energy from the impact.

Exactly, and stop the engine being driven back into the cockpit.

[Lionel Ritchie]

It was. If you do it again, you'll be banned for a week.

Fair enough Adam. I'll draw in my horns. Had a run in with one this morning on the way to work. I've had a cuppa since I posted so I've calmed down a bit.

I cycle to work most days and I'm finding that I'm involved in potentially fatal incidents at a rate of about one a week. I've about a 2 mile cycle involving crossing the shannon on what Limerick folks still call the 'new bridge' (despite it having opened in 1987 and it's name being the shannon bridge) and negotiating a right turn/last exit on the roundabout at the town end.
It's on the roundabout that cyclists haven't a chance and are literally taking their lives in their hands.

Now I appeciate I can be killed every bit as dead by a micra, clio or fiesta -but it's usually some clown in one of these jeeps that nearly offs me -be it when I'm on the roundabout or when I'm at the entrance to it waiting for my turn to start onto it. Even when I'm cycling through the ****, broken glass, bus droppings and dirt of the gutter on the bridge itself i've nearly been run over or clipped as the feckin things are too big for the lanes.

We have laws that deal with who can drive tractors, JCBs, tanks etc... and I seriosly believe it's time we took this thing by the balls and said enough. We need Murderous VRT on the yokes (a poor mands tax I know but...), emissions tax, a 'dangerous vehicle' tax that punishes their lack of crumple zones, the law enforced relating to the bull bars (banned since 1988), dawn to dusk exclusion zones for the things, city center outright bans. ...the lot.

[dcfcsteve]

I'm not a big fan of 4x4's, don't plan to own one at any point in my life, and would consider myself an environmentalist to a certain degree.

However - I do have to say that the whole 4x4 thing is as much a people-bashing trend as it is a genuine concern for the environment, safety etc. Why are only 4x4's being picked on ? High performance sports cars drink as much if not more fuel and are more often than not driven in a more reckless fashion by their even more irritating owners. So where's the arguements that Ferrari's, high-spec Porsches, Lambourghinis etc should only be driven round race tracks and not town centres ? They're even more impractical for the slow slog of city driving than 4x4's are ! What about big-drinkers like Rolls Royces, Jaguars, RV's (Residential Vehicles, like Winnebagos), little-used buses etc.

I'm guessing 4x4's are getting picked-on purely becuase they're financially accesible to a significant number of the population - hence there's a relatively high number of them around. They're much more affordable than performance sports cars, but have a fashion/status association that bridges the gap between then and normal family cars.

If the current trend to 'attack' 4x4 owners is the start of a genuine concern regarding what people drive, then it is to be welcomed, and one would expect the 'campaigners' to progress onto other questionable modes of personal transport afterwards. However, I fear it is not, that they therefore won't, and that it will as a consequence reveal itself to be nought but an exercise in bashing people who have the cheek to use choice of vehicle to try to visibly elevate themselves socially above the hoi polloi, without having the financial ability to pull it off convincingly by buying a genuinely aspirational vehicle.

[Peadar]

I'd sell my soul for an X5!

I'd be nice to cyclists and pedestrians though.

[Roo69]

[QUOTE=pete]Apparently SUV (might as well use yankie term) sales up 37% from last year.

I hates them (excluding genuine rural purposes) & would be surprised if most urban drivers of them are actual own them as as domestic vehicles as opposed to some tax write off.

I don't think bullbars are actually illegal which is criminal itself as no point to a pedestrain crumple zone if got metal bars on top of bonnet.

Biggest I seen in Ireland was Ford Explorer which not sold here so had to be imported.[/QUOTE]

No need for them unless for work as stated in above posts. I've seena few Hummers believe it or not around the place. they loos just silly driving around the roads, especially in bleedin' Bray

[Macy]

Sports cars, jags etc aren't as dangerous as the suv's as they aren't as big as heavy. I'd fancy coming out alright of a crash with a porshe in my little hatch back (even my piece of shít coke can one), but I'd be in trouble with suv.

However, I stand by my motor tax policy - there's no need for engines above 2.5 litres in this country in any domestic motor, so double the road tax every 100cc above that.

Lionel, maybe it's just me, but I actually fine cyclists worse drivers than suv drivers. Only in the case of cyclists, it's always the motorist that is to blame without fail - even if they're going through lights, on and off pavements, pulling out without looking etc etc...

[monutdfc]

High performance sports cars .... are more often than not driven in a more reckless fashion by their even more irritating owners.

As a cyclist and a driver I would disagree with that statement.
As a driver, 4x4s are up there with white vans as the drivers with the least respect for other vehicles.
As a cyclist, 4x4s come a very close third to Bus Eireann drivers (note, Dublin Bus drivers are ok) and females in small cars with zero spatial awareness as the drivers with zero respect for cyclists. One git in an Offaly reg Pajero pulled an unbelievable stunt on me the other week.
As a pedestrian, the parking habits of many 4x4 drivers show no respect for people in wheelchairs, prams, pushchairs etc.


ps my advice to Lionel is to swallow your pride and belief in the rights of all road users, get off the bike and negotiate that roundabout via the nearest pedestrian crossings, if it really is that dangerous. I have found over the years that a patient approach to cycling is safer and better for your blood pressure too.

[$Leon$]

. I've seena few Hummers believe it or not around the place. they loos just silly driving around the roads, especially in bleedin' Bray

hummers are the chosen vehicle of the american army.
used as both defensive and offensive vehicles.
bray can be a dangerous place especially after dark.
donn't blame them myself for havin hummers round bray.

don't agree with the suv's myself the thought of bull bars and the damage they can do makes me sick.

pass a well known south county dublin girls school on my way to college in the morn and all u can c is q's of black cx90's lined up.
mounting a kerb is about as far off road as they go

[Lionel Ritchie]

I'm not a big fan of 4x4's, don't plan to own one at any point in my life, and would consider myself an environmentalist to a certain degree.

However - I do have to say that the whole 4x4 thing is as much a people-bashing trend as it is a genuine concern for the environment, safety etc. Why are only 4x4's being picked on ? High performance sports cars drink as much if not more fuel and are more often than not driven in a more reckless fashion by their even more irritating owners. So where's the arguements that Ferrari's, high-spec Porsches, Lambourghinis etc should only be driven round race tracks and not town centres ? They're even more impractical for the slow slog of city driving than 4x4's are ! What about big-drinkers like Rolls Royces, Jaguars, RV's (Residential Vehicles, like Winnebagos), little-used buses etc.

I'm guessing 4x4's are getting picked-on purely becuase they're financially accesible to a significant number of the population - hence there's a relatively high number of them around. They're much more affordable than performance sports cars, but have a fashion/status association that bridges the gap between then and normal family cars.

If the current trend to 'attack' 4x4 owners is the start of a genuine concern regarding what people drive, then it is to be welcomed, and one would expect the 'campaigners' to progress onto other questionable modes of personal transport afterwards. However, I fear it is not, that they therefore won't, and that it will as a consequence reveal itself to be nought but an exercise in bashing people who have the cheek to use choice of vehicle to try to visibly elevate themselves socially above the hoi polloi, without having the financial ability to pull it off convincingly by buying a genuinely aspirational vehicle.

That's an interesting overview Steve. Did you write a paper on this or something? 'socio-economic phenomena and their counter movements-concern or begrudgery?' .

Look mate - I just want to get home in one piece.
Should I buy one these things too? and then what happens when we all own one? do those who have the cheek to use choice of vehicle to try to visibly elevate themselves socially above the hoi polloi move on to Rigids, Artics or Panzers?

BTW I agree with you that Waahs in souped up Civics are a bloody nuicance -but you and I live in virtually identical sized cities. How many Ferraris are you seeing around Derry? (1 I know of down here -1991 reg )
Lams? (none I know of here), Porches (dunno -one hand count though).
But the SUVs down here are literally a virus with tyres.

Macy -as a road tax paying motorist (between cars at the mo') I have to in part agree with you about some cyclists -again particularly waahs -who've no concept of any rules of the road. But most cyclists behave as though they know that if there's an accident they'll come off worst.

Mon -get this -one of the busiest (peak time) roundabouts in the Limerick city area has only one pedestrian crossing -and it just happens to be at the last exit as you come off the bridge