Martin Russell

**bluewhitearmy** · 19/09/2016, 6:56 PM

Seen a lot of people the last few days seem to completely turn on Martin Russell after the final. Most I have seen are more annoyed with the notion he continues to force his son into the team than the result itself. So how do the people on here feel is Russell the man to take us forward or is it time to do a Pat Scully on it and move on?

I can see both sides of it tbh I mean its hard to push too hard for him to be sacked considering we are currently unbeaten in the league but on the other side you will have people saying anyone could have won us this division and that he has been found wanting in a lot of big games. So is he the man to take us forward if the plan really is to push top 4 at some stage soon?

**osarusan** · 19/09/2016, 7:39 PM

After getting relegated, Russell was given money to make sure we made our way straight back to the Premier division. He has done that, and it has been done in some style. So from that perspective, I don't think it would be all that fair to sack him.

On the other hand, with the resources at his disposal, getting promoted so easily still isn't that massive an achievement.

I would have serious reservations about whether our current team is actually any better than the team which ended last season. I would say that our defence hasn't improved at all, except for the development of Paudie.

I have been saying for a while and will say again that I hope O'Sullivan is listening very carefully to ensure that Russell is completely aware of how the team needs to be improved, and what plans he has in place to improve it. As we saw on Saturday, when we are pressed high up the pitch, we disintegrate, give away the ball to easily, and give away goals too easily. Just like last season.

My main criticism of Russell is that we never ever seem to have a plan B. He sets out his team the same way every week regardless of the opposition, and we will play that way for 90 minutes, regardless of the situation. In both games against St. Pats , Buckley showed just how important a manager can be in adjusting a team to meet a particular demand on the pitch.

**LK37oldskool** · 19/09/2016, 7:58 PM

Can't disagree with anything mentioned above. I have enjoyed the free flowing style that MR has brought to Limerick but if someone with defensive coaching could be brought in it would really help the squad. Martin cant spell defending let alone coach it. His inability to adapt or make astute tactical subs is another problem he has.
My biggest gripe is concerning his continual picking of his son over better quality players at his disposal.Seanie is a decent squad player but never,ever a first choice. I think Limerick played much better football earlier in the season before his son was drafted in. I personally think we saw the best of Greene during that spell as he was playing week in and out. Once Seanie arrived Greene did not seem to be a first choice anymore.
I hold MR responsible for Saturdays defeat as picking his son over Shane was unbelievable if Shane was not carrying an injury. Even when Shane came on he was not put into left back. Buckley couldn't believe his luck. You could see from the outset Pats targeted Seanie and after half time he got annihilated. He can put in a good cross but knows about defending as much as his father. Its an issue that needs to be tackled. If we bring in more experienced players for next season and Seanie is still starting we will be in real trouble.
Its an issue i would love to hear Mike Aherne and the Live 95 sports team address. I cannot believe they dont see this as a problem also or heard the general disquiet from the fans over this.

**bluewhitearmy** · 19/09/2016, 8:29 PM

My big concern is I would hate to see a repeat of Stuart Taylor where Pat puts his money where his mouth is gives the manager a huge budget to push us towards the top clubs and it ends up being wasted in fairness to Pat he got the stick for cutting the budget the year we went down but I think that was the only year since he came in we didn't have a very decent budget and most of those years we have had a fantastic budget there was huge money spent the last time we went up. This isnt the first time in a huge game it seemed like Sean was forced in either last year when he left Lee J out of the team for the first game v Harps was a shocking decision. I've no problem with Sean being there but he is a back up left winger or number 10 he is never in a million years a left back his biggest weakness is defensively and tackling imo. I actually feel for Sean too he is a genuinely nice lad and a decent player really its just doing him absolutely no favours that it seems like he is being forced in and it is really starting to look like that is the case at this stage.

Could it be a case that we simply do not have a squad anywhere near good enough for prem still and we are being harsh on him? Maybe if he does get a big budget and gets to make what he deems a proper prem squad he will do a lot better? Are we being a bit harsh on him because of the way a lot of fans feel for Tracy or are there genuinely enough question marks over him that we should be looking at if he is the man or not. Tbf though I think the 2 posters that have answered so far are farily reasonable and none of ye seem too convinced he is the man going forward.

**Jofspring** · 19/09/2016, 8:35 PM

About an hour or so before kick off I said to the lads if Russell starts it immediately gives everyone someone to blame if we lose. We lost and immediately after it I was met with people saying it was all Seanies fault. Jesus the whole team went down hill in the second half and I think Shane would have struggled with Byrne also from the get go due to pace. The biggest issue we had was not having a quality left full. I wouldn't be Seans biggest fan but even when he has a solid game he seems to get slated.

From a managerial perspective though it is frustrating that Martin has managed to fit sean in to nearly every starting team since he arrived despite better players being available. Martin seems like a nice guy, the players seem to like him but the clear nepotism shown will cause us problems long term.

Martins Pros:
Nice football.
Nice guy.
Seems able to convince decent players in. Something we didn't really have with previous managers.
Doesn't cause the club problems and from what I know doesn't bring pressure on them when it comes to playing budget.

Cons:
Clear nepotism shown.
No plan B.
Seems to struggle with the defensive side of the game.

It's easy for fans to say we need this player and that player and that we need a better manager but realistically it all comes down to money and I think we badly need backing to really push on.

**bluewhitearmy** · 19/09/2016, 8:58 PM

Originally Posted by Jofspring

About an hour or so before kick off I said to the lads if Russell starts it immediately gives everyone someone to blame if we lose. We lost and immediately after it I was met with people saying it was all Seanies fault. Jesus the whole team went down hill in the second half and I think Shane would have struggled with Byrne also from the get go due to pace. The biggest issue we had was not having a quality left full. I wouldn't be Seans biggest fan but even when he has a solid game he seems to get slated.

From a managerial perspective though it is frustrating that Martin has managed to fit sean in to nearly every starting team since he arrived despite better players being available. Martin seems like a nice guy, the players seem to like him but the clear nepotism shown will cause us problems long term.

Martins Pros:
Nice football.
Nice guy.
Seems able to convince decent players in. Something we didn't really have with previous managers.
Doesn't cause the club problems and from what I know doesn't bring pressure on them when it comes to playing budget.

Cons:
Clear nepotism shown.
No plan B.
Seems to struggle with the defensive side of the game.

It's easy for fans to say we need this player and that player and that we need a better manager but realistically it all comes down to money and I think we badly need backing to really push on.

Don't agree at all Joe Gamble,Stephen Bradley,Shane Duggan and others all here before Martin ever came who has come in since better than them?

I agree too that even when Sean plays well or ok he gets slags off but I think peoples main problem is with Martin forcing him in now more than anything and some of that then spills over into people having a go at Sean. And I whether he would have gotten stick if he did ok or not is irrelevant for Saturday imo cos having watched it back he was ripped to shreds and I actually originally argued with people that he had done well.Shane might have struggled but he is a superior player to Sean and I dont think there is any argument against that really.

It does come down to money but I think the question needs to be asked too would we get full value with the money we do spend with Martin or another manager cos we have had a huge budget p!ssed away with a poor manager already.

**Lim till i die** · 19/09/2016, 9:16 PM

Sean Russell wasn't even in the top three worst players Saturday.

He was fairly crap don't get me wrong. But he gets rode because he's the bosses son.

Just saying.

**Jofspring** · 19/09/2016, 9:16 PM

We would always have one or two quality players like Gamble under Scully but as a whole the squad would be extremely average. Taylor brought in a few from overseas that really flopped when you think of where we were considering the money wasted. Then compare how well Russell turned it around when he came in with all the signings at the time. How many players under Taylor did we hear we lost to other clubs for one reason or another where as Martin has delivered on the likes of O'Flynn, Lynch, Djillali, Greene. Martin might not have signed gamble or Duggan but as a whole he has brought in bigger bulks of decent players.

Paul O Connor, Lee Jay, Hall, Greene, Mullhall, O'Flynn, Clarke, Faherty, Turner, have all done pretty well for us. Scully brought in Gamble and Bradley but no much other real quality around that in my opinion. Even Gaffney was like a new player under Russell that time even though he was already with us.

**Lim till i die** · 19/09/2016, 9:26 PM

On Martin I don't necessarily think him being a nice guy is a pro. Could arguably do with a bit of a reign of terror around the club. The fitness levels look to be an issue. The underage has been a total and utter failure considering the money fired at it. Would a ******* stand for it?

I think Russell could be a success in the Premier but I think you would need a really really big budget. Are the club willing to risk it?

What's the alternatives then? Give nutsy fenlon one last roll of the big money dice? Is Ian barraclough still alive? Risk another Stuart Taylor?

One things for sure if we are doing anything next year besides finishing ahead of the dross we need players and lots of em.

**bluewhitearmy** · 20/09/2016, 1:53 AM

Originally Posted by Lim till i die

Sean Russell wasn't even in the top three worst players Saturday.

He was fairly crap don't get me wrong. But he gets rode because he's the bosses son.

Just saying.

I agree but tbh most of what I have seen is people annoyed with Martin for forcing him in rather than blaming Sean for the game. Now I gather on facebook he is being blamed alright I just haven't seen it myself. There is a difference though whether people like it or not based on who he is because if Duggan plays poorly then he plays poorly but he should be in the team based on his regular performances and lack of better players than him same goes for a lot of the rest but when Sean should not be in the team at a position he doesn't play ahead of a better player and everyone knows the reason why of course it adds a bit of extra annoyance its not fair on him sure but its understandable imo.

Originally Posted by Jofspring

We would always have one or two quality players like Gamble under Scully but as a whole the squad would be extremely average. Taylor brought in a few from overseas that really flopped when you think of where we were considering the money wasted. Then compare how well Russell turned it around when he came in with all the signings at the time. How many players under Taylor did we hear we lost to other clubs for one reason or another where as Martin has delivered on the likes of O'Flynn, Lynch, Djillali, Greene. Martin might not have signed gamble or Duggan but as a whole he has brought in bigger bulks of decent players.

Paul O Connor, Lee Jay, Hall, Greene, Mullhall, O'Flynn, Clarke, Faherty, Turner, have all done pretty well for us. Scully brought in Gamble and Bradley but no much other real quality around that in my opinion. Even Gaffney was like a new player under Russell that time even though he was already with us.

Is it really any different right now? Keep in mind now we have a bigger budget than 4 or 5 prem clubs at this minute. You are massively stretching talking about Martin attracting people with a lot of lads on that list imo some of them hardly had flocks of people after their signature based on their performances before coming here. Now im not talking about their performances here just what they did before it that would make it so impressive to attract them here.

Hall: He didn't sign him
Mulhall: Left a first division club to come to the team almost guaranteed to win the league
O'Flynn: His options were us or Cobh
Clarke: Came from UCD after missing a year with injury
Faherthy: Had been offered peanuts by Galway after a terrible season
Turner: Taylor signed him
Djillali: Was he really any better than the overseas lads that Taylor brought in?

Even Lee J while he is top quality how much convincing would it really have taken to get him to come home you honestly telling me another manager wouldn't have been able to get him and the bulk of the list there to the club? Not buying that at all tbh. Now if he had gotten a Ronan Finn or someone else down here then you could say something but I see nothing like that in his time here. I'd be fairly confident it would be Pats money and not Martin Russell that will attract big names if we get them. I know it will come across as if i am being totally anti Russell with that but honestly I am just stating what I think is the truth and I haven't decided myself even if I would like him to stay or go.

**Jofspring** · 20/09/2016, 8:56 AM

Lee Jay went to Drogheda, Sligo and Pats before us and had offers from other clubs so i don't think it is as straight forward as convincing him home.

The list to me actually looks pretty impressive when you consider how many players that were thought surplus to requirements where brought in and improved under russell.

Ya I thought Djilali did very well for us that time. We went on a cracking run that time Russell came in with the new signings. Shane O'Connor, Djillali, Lee Jay, Gaffney, Oji were all outstanding from July to the end of the season.

We see the faults every week in Russell's game plans but players seem to really like him and I'm talking about players from other clubs. I've never heard a bad word said about him and when he left Pats for us the players were gutted.

I can't name anyone at the moment that could guarantee to push us on. Whoever we would potentially replace him with could be a big risk and we might look back and say Russell was a big loss.

**LK37oldskool** · 20/09/2016, 9:33 AM

Jofspring has hit it on the head. We're all disappointed with many aspects of Martins management but who else is there. I think only Kenny or Buckley would improve us and their out of the question. We don't want a circus like shamrock rover's revolving door. Until a better option becomes available I'd stick with Martin. Better the devil you know!

**osarusan** · 20/09/2016, 9:37 AM

I wouldn't mind somebody like Pete Mahon, but I think he won't leave clubs in or around Dublin.

**bluewhitearmy** · 20/09/2016, 2:51 PM

Originally Posted by Jofspring

Lee Jay went to Drogheda, Sligo and Pats before us and had offers from other clubs so i don't think it is as straight forward as convincing him home. The list to me actually looks pretty impressive when you consider how many players that were thought surplus to requirements where brought in and improved under russell. Ya I thought Djilali did very well for us that time. We went on a cracking run that time Russell came in with the new signings. Shane O'Connor, Djillali, Lee Jay, Gaffney, Oji were all outstanding from July to the end of the season. We see the faults every week in Russell's game plans but players seem to really like him and I'm talking about players from other clubs. I've never heard a bad word said about him and when he left Pats for us the players were gutted. I can't name anyone at the moment that could guarantee to push us on. Whoever we would potentially replace him with could be a big risk and we might look back and say Russell was a big loss.

No doubt he got the best out of some players and that is a plus for him for sure but its not the same thing as him attracting great quality like you said first. I thoght Djilali was pretty meh tbh did some good things at times was invisible at times.

We won 7 and lost 6 at the time he took over fair enough we beat Rovers and Bray 4-1 but we also got beat 4-0 and 3-0 at home to Derry and Drogheda our longest winning streak at that time was 2 in a row so I don't see this great run we went on tbh.

There is never a guarantee with anyone that they will do well and push us on, I see what people are saying and I am kinda the same tbh am I confident Russell will push us on not really but would I be confident we would get someone better if we got rid not really either. But even your own lists of pros and cons for Russell the cons outweigh the pros don't they?

**bluewhitearmy** · 20/09/2016, 2:56 PM

If he was to go would people be happy with someone like Ian Baraclough? I think he will be given time tbh but I would hope if things dont go as they should we don't do what we did with Scully and Taylor and hold on too long wasting money before making a change.

**NeverFeltBetter** · 20/09/2016, 10:52 PM

I said after the play-off last season that I thought Russell should have been let go. That was said while the hurt was still there, but I still hold to it today. Anybody - Scully, Taylor, Roddy Collins, anyone you care to mention - could have taken the resources available and mopped up this First Division, and I say that as someone who was fearful before the start of the season that Limerick were going to be drawn into an awful dogfight for promotion. I was wrong about that, for sure. The reality of what has transpired means I'm sorry to say that Russell's First Division crown means little to me.

What means more is the victories that got Limerick to the League Cup Final, but even that's been soiled by the double failure with Pats. Limerick didn't seem to learn anything from the first game, and the situation with his son is a baffling fault. Russell won't get Limerick into a solid top half position, and he won't get them to Europe, and he won't challenge for a title, not in a million years. His defence light attitude can't deliver consistently at the higher level.

All that being said, no way will he be sacked in the off-season. It'll take a bad start in March/April to do him in.

**Charlie Darwin** · 21/09/2016, 12:28 AM

Anyone probably could have won the FD with his resources but few could have done it getting to this point unbeaten. The reality is that Limerick's players, bar the likes of Lynch and Duggan who are outstanding, aren't significantly better than those of UCD and Drogheda. Limerick just happen to have a deeper squad and are full-time, plus they play a style of football that will wear any FD team out.

Problem is a good chunk of Premier Division teams have better players than Limerick. Pats are having a horrible season and have square pegs in round holes all over the shop, but they're still clearly better players than Limerick. Jamie McGrath is a bit-part player at Pats but the only attacking player Limerick have who comes close to his talent is John O'Flynn, who due to his age isn't a sure bet at Premier level anymore.

**bluewhitearmy** · 21/09/2016, 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Anyone probably could have won the FD with his resources but few could have done it getting to this point unbeaten. The reality is that Limerick's players, bar the likes of Lynch and Duggan who are outstanding, aren't significantly better than those of UCD and Drogheda. Limerick just happen to have a deeper squad and are full-time, plus they play a style of football that will wear any FD team out.

Problem is a good chunk of Premier Division teams have better players than Limerick. Pats are having a horrible season and have square pegs in round holes all over the shop, but they're still clearly better players than Limerick. Jamie McGrath is a bit-part player at Pats but the only attacking player Limerick have who comes close to his talent is John O'Flynn, who due to his age isn't a sure bet at Premier level anymore.

Fair point and I have wondered if that is the case that because of how well we are doing at the level we are at that we are overestimating some of the players we have. We clearly need to improve to do anything more than just survive in premier but possibly need a hell of a lot more than some have thought to really push on. Suppose that's why most people have a wait and see approach with Russell.