Serbia v Rep of Ireland - Rajko Mitić Stadium, Belgrade (WCQ) Monday, 5th Sept. 2016

**pineapple stu** · 08/09/2016, 3:14 PM

Yup. But that was 1-2 years ago now.

I still think talk of being better than Wales without Bale, or of going through the group unbeaten, is all pie in the sky. Maybe it's just the performance in Serbia that's still getting to me. Was it here that someone said Liechtenstein managed 50% more successful passes than us when losing 8-0 to Spain, and had a higher success rate? Wales will tear us apart if we play like that again. Just like France and Belgium did tear us apart when we played like that before (actually, we played better against them)

No point hiding from that fact.

**paul_oshea** · 08/09/2016, 3:15 PM

Originally Posted by DeLorean

It's not a defence, the performance was dreadful, everybody accepts that.

Delores I am pretty sure you said the same thing, you'd have taken the point before kick off. So why bother even saying it then? Especially if you agree the performance was dreadful, but moreso was Serbias defense. It's like an acceptance ah well shur didn't do alright anyway good old little ireland. Clap Clap pat the back.

**paul_oshea** · 08/09/2016, 3:20 PM

Originally Posted by SkStu

Agree with this. The game script should determine what you are happy with, not any pre-game retrospective. We didnt perform against a poor Serbian team until we went behind and then showed what we could do. It was really disappointing - a lost opportunity to make a statement of intent to the rest of the group.

In reality, it applies to tournament performances too. If you sh!t the bed and lose a winnable game in the 2nd round then there is scant comfort received in saying "ah well, we would have taken a second round appearance". It should be no defence or distraction of a terrible performance either. Its the 90 minutes that matter.

Yes, we'd have made this years qualifying leg so much easier, and really given Austria a worry if we were heading in with 9 points into that game, with a potential to pull well ahead with a victory there. They would be more than happy with the draw to keep daylight between us.

Georgia will be well gone by the time we go out there this time next year, but I have an awful feeling they will do a scotland on us too and then we come unstuck with results out of our hands.

We could really have had a firm grip on top spot come November end, had we picked up the extra two points Monday night. I watched it with a neutral(well a preference for ireland over serbia anyway

), and said to me at the end of the game when I asked well what did you make of that, "i dont think you will like my response". The question was why sit back and only play football for 15 mins. That was enough for me.

**paul_oshea** · 08/09/2016, 3:22 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I agree Bale is an exceptional player at the heart of a lot they do. To score 7 of Wales' 11 goals in the last qualifying says a lot.

But they've a very solid defence, which Bale isn't really a part of. And I think it's fair to say we've had more than our share of luck in recent games - Monday night an obvious example, but even the Germany game at home we were appalling for the first half, and if Germany hadn't been so lax in front of goal, the game would have been over by half-time.

It worries me that our luck has to change soon.

He is an inverted part of defence in that defence is the best form of attack, they soak up and he breaks with pace, so teams are always a bit cautious to overcommit in attack. But I take your point. I think thats the big difference alright, they can defend similar or slightly better to us, but they can counterway better, so even if they hoof like us bale is running on or ramsey is there for a flick or allen for a good throughball. We just hoof to long/wwalters, and long is proving to be less effective with his running game too over the last while.

**DeLorean** · 08/09/2016, 3:25 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Delores I am pretty sure you said the same thing, you'd have taken the point before kick off. So why bother even saying it then?

Because it is what it is. I would have taken a draw beforehand, and I would definitely have taken a draw with ten minutes to go. So relief is my overriding emotion, not despair at what we could have done had we played better. It doesn't excuse the performance, but I'm willing to park it and move on. I think we can improve and that could be a valuable point, so onwards and upwards.

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

It's like an acceptance ah well shur didn't do alright anyway good old little ireland. Clap Clap pat the back.

It's an acceptance alright, but an acceptance that we got away with it despite being rubbish. You obviously feel worse about the 'missed opportunity' than me. That's fine too.

**pineapple stu** · 08/09/2016, 3:33 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

He is an inverted part of defence in that defence is the best form of attack

I'll agree with that alright.

But we're in danger of building him up to be an entire team on his own, and we know only Gary Breen (or Tony McDonnell) can have such God-like status!

I think a big difference between the two teams is the style of play, as you say - the way they counter compared to the way we lump it forward and hope.

**paul_oshea** · 08/09/2016, 3:33 PM

Because it is what it is. I would have taken a draw beforehand, and I would definitely have taken a draw with ten minutes to go. So relief is my overriding emotion, not despair at what we could have done had we played better. It doesn't excuse the performance, but I'm willing to park it and move on. I think we can improve and that could be a valuable point, so onwards and upwards.

It's an acceptance alright, but an acceptance that we got away with it despite being rubbish. You obviously feel worse about the 'missed opportunity' than me. That's fine too.

Yes but our acceptance is what the players think too. Its the whole mentality is wrong. It's an overriding feeling, that sits in the mindset and ensures we just settle for the same again and again when we shouldn't.

If we drew with Germany away and you came out said "Ah well we could have won but we'd all have taken the point beforehand" then of course I'd agree with ye. But we were going in a little unkown against Serbia, what to really expect, missing two of their top players, so its not comparable. If someone says "I would have taken the draw beforehand based on what I believed Serbia were capable of " then its somewhat relevant, otherwise its completely pointless.

**DeLorean** · 08/09/2016, 3:37 PM

I'd have taken a point beforehand based on history teaching me that we either draw or lose these games. It's not down to me and my kind to start believing in better, it's down to the football team to start making us believe in better. Until they do, then I'll happily take a draw every time. I'm just not a natural born winner like you Paul.

**paul_oshea** · 08/09/2016, 3:56 PM

That's because you were thinking Serbia were similar to slovakia, bulgaria, etc. Rivals for 2nd in similar campaigns. But that performance of theirs, and their defensive ability was not of those teams ilk. More like an Armenia.

Anyway we can leave it there I suppose.

I would just like us to adapt to the situation and not just be happy with the outcome based on what we thought before a ball was kicked.

**shakermaker1982** · 08/09/2016, 4:28 PM

If you go through the match thread I was pi$$ed off during and immediately after the 90 mins. I felt we squandered a huge opportunity to finish off Serbia after 3 minutes and go for the throat. Instead we went into a shell and bottled it.

However once the dust has settled and (all the pundits have had their say), I can look at the result and think well it's not all doom and gloom. We still got a point away from home in a ground that won't have too many away wins in this campaign. The team showed plenty of bottle to fight back and MO'N made some good subs to turn the game.

Of course we have to improve but Wales and Austria shouldn't be feared. Wales were outplayed by Northern Ireland (nobody mentions that!) in the 2nd round so I think we can hold our own.

Remember how we all felt after the Scotland defeat and the dog sh** display that was produced on the night? We were rock bottom but the squad and manager turned things round pretty quickly. I thought we played some decent stuff after that low point and would hope we will see another improvement in the near future.

**Razors left peg** · 08/09/2016, 6:47 PM

Originally Posted by Colbert Report

Does anyone know where I can get a video of the match? I missed it on Monday and would like to be able to go back and watch it now. I live in the USA if that makes any difference. Ta

If you have ESPN its available on the Watch ESPN website

**MeathDrog** · 08/09/2016, 7:58 PM

I think some of us are downplaying Serbia a little too much.

Sure, they were brittle at the back, but they are still rivals for the playoff spot.

They are better than Armenia, or at least they are than the team we played 5 or so years ago.

Serbia still looked comfortable on the ball in attack and technically not that bad, they just lacked a potent striker. Mitrovic is a header and wasn't match fit anyway, so we caught a break there.

And even then they should have scored 4 or 5.

**backstothewall** · 08/09/2016, 8:32 PM

Originally Posted by MeathDrog

I think some of us are downplaying Serbia a little too much.

Sure, they were brittle at the back, but they are still rivals for the playoff spot.

They are better than Armenia, or at least they are than the team we played 5 or so years ago.

Serbia still looked comfortable on the ball in attack and technically not that bad, they just lacked a potent striker. Mitrovic is a header and wasn't match fit anyway, so we caught a break there.

And even then they should have scored 4 or 5.

I think it's fair to compare them to Scotland in our last group, and that point is one more than we got in Celtic Park

**MeathDrog** · 08/09/2016, 8:39 PM

Originally Posted by backstothewall

I think it's fair to compare them to Scotland in our last group, and that point is one more than we got in Celtic Park

I'd have them as a better team than Scotland, at least technically anyway.

The comparisons in our performance are fair so you are right. It is a point off a terrible performance. We'll likely have 7 points out of 9 and hopefully we can take it from there.

**Stuttgart88** · 08/09/2016, 8:57 PM

Lots going on here and I'm on a mobile phone so can't contribute properly but I'll do my best:

I think OF's and Dolly's point of comparisons only being so relevant might be right on paper, but right now I watch Wakes and I watch us and I think they're better and in better form. That said, we're Irish and over the last 10 years we have shown we can get results against anyone. We are tough street fighters and that counts for a lot. At times we add quality to that but we can't count on it.

I agree with Paul about evolution. Individually and collectively our players should have relished the position they were in on Monday. 1-0 up, nervous keeper, empty home stadium and let's face it, we bottled it. As I've argued since Israel away and before, we just haven't got the habit of winning tough away games we are winning in.

Long way to go and the last campaign shows what can happen. I'm not sure both Wales and Austria will win in Serbia but they might. I think we blew a great chance to bank crucial points. I think we'll need 12 points from Moldova and Georgia and at least one win against each of Wales and Austria.

**paul_oshea** · 08/09/2016, 10:29 PM

Ya i wish id put everything into the equation.

Lack of any real home venue, apathetic crowd bordering on bored and disdain, no daunting atmosphere in the stadium, two of their best players missing, with a new manager who still doesnt know what he's at, against a defence that shat the togs anytime the ball dropped in the box and a keeper who was as calamitous as Frank Spencer. Ya we bottled it, yes we certainly blew it.

**MeathDrog** · 08/09/2016, 11:05 PM

It's Ireland away in a qualifier against a half decent team. We haven't won a game of note in that scenario since the 80s. It's a reach to say we bottled it.

**Charlie Darwin** · 09/09/2016, 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I think anything can happen in this group too, but I think we need to pull our socks up. IRL v WAL could be a slugfest like Glasgow where we bring a more technical team down to our level.

Not this again. Scotland were never a more technical team than us. They're a long ball team who have a couple of players who can make things happen in the final third, just like us. They don't play their way up the pitch.