What reform are Britain looking for? Britain have pretty much opted out of all the main trade agreements except the ones that are handy for them - fishing, agri etc - which they will now lose anyway. They negotiate their own trade agreements outside the eu, set their own taxes, have their own currency. They got way more from Europe then they put in yet still wanted reform. Mental.
I'm critical of many aspects of the EU. As a kind of medium-soft leftie I think the EU has become too right wing in the last decade but one reason I have long liked the EU is because for a long time it dampened nationalism. Since the EZ crisis it has really only fertilised nationalism again so it only has itself to blame for this. Let's see where it ends up though. Europe was slower to recover than the UK, but the UK recovery is fragile, imbalanced and debt-fuelled. The EU is growing again.
In the UK itself I think poorer people have been duped into voting against their best interests, but who am I to argue in my relatively comfortable London bubble?
For me though the argument of taking back control is a total con-trick. The UK is a sham of a democracy. Here's why I think so:
- The country doesn't have a constitution
- The most unpopular party in the land wins a majority with 25% of the vote, due to first past the post
- This party is funded by billionaire tax dodgers and wealthy financial vested interests
- At the same time they cut official public funding to the Opposition and pass law curtailing Union funding
- The party is endorsed by billionaire vested interests in the media; Opposition is either ridiculed or demonised
- This and the last government bypass Commons by passing law by Statutory Instrument (a technicality that avoids Commons debate); use of this measure has increased exponentially, starting with Labour and escalating since 2010
- When the unelected House of Lords pressurises government into backing down (e.g., disability benefit cuts), Cameron threatens to add more unelected Lords, but all Tory supporters, just to add numbers on his side
- Lords can only recommend, it can't actually make anything happen
- Regular filibustering is allowed to defeat Opposition motions in Commons
And so on, not to mention NI and Scotland having to abide by a decision they voted against. An Honours system that knights people like Philip Green and Lynton Crosby - the Australian who orchestrated the same fear campaign in 2015 that Cameron used in the referendum, and whose firm orchestrated an overtly racist mayoral campaign against Sadiq Khan.
This referendum had nothing to do with respect for popular concerns. It was all about Cameron trying to control some headbangers in his own party. He put his party before his country, and his party won.
Now a bunch of neo-con nutters like Gove (who privatised public legal aid funding to the poor)*, Liam Fox et al are being given the keys to the country. Boris has no principles, he's just a self-interested egotist, out for himself only.
The EU - despite its faults - provided the governance checks and balances that the UK lacks. Without the EU there is no effective governance mechanism to protect the UK from its own undemocratic and illiberal instincts. That's why I voted Remain.
But hey, we beat Italy
*and in fairness Gove's prison reforms make sense.
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 24/06/2016 at 1:30 PM.
The key word there is negotiate, in negotiation you have to give some leeway as well.....all agreements in one way or another is to cede some sort of position. Now they can negotiate without having to worry about upsetting Frau Merkel
As mentioned, part of the UK where a lot of EU money went to, like Swansea, voted overwhelmingly to exit. Just because they have "got" something doesn't necessarily mean it trickled down.
I guess some think they could do without that extra level of bureaucracy.
It might work, probably wont, but its nice to see the suits in Brussels squirm.
As of a few minutes ago anyway, the official line was that they had no plans for this as yet.
Just what we need more players playing in crap leagues.
Morgan Stanley hinted at this before the referendum. Last week some time. It is no surprise that the rumours are flying now.
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
Was that not Morgan Cranley, Bonnie?
Sit tight for six months. There'll be a lot of Chicken Licken stuff for the next while while the serious work goes on invisibly behind the scenes. Scotland the North are going to be interesting.
But, hell, I'm surprised it passed. I mean how could anybody in their right mind vote for anything wanted by Farage, Boris and Gove? Every time I look at Gove I think of a spineless burgomeister in 1938 Bavaria, happy to go along with whatever political movement gives him the best shot at power.
Last edited by Eminence Grise; 24/06/2016 at 3:47 PM.
Hello, hello? What's going on? What's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here!
- E Tattsyrup.
Any post office! Particularly in Unionist areas. I went in to pick one up in our solidly Unionist town for Mrs Backstothewall at 9am and the 3 people in front of me in the queue were after the same. They ran out of forms before lunchtime apparently.
Agree. I posted the following on facebook earlier this morning.
I cant help but feel that the Leave vote by the UK is the right decision for them to make, notwithstanding the likely break up of the Union. Brexit has been dumbed down and painted by mainstream and social media as a nationalist/far right rising but it goes far deeper than that.
The EU is past its sell by date and has become a faceless conglomerate. Its mandate has continued to creep in scope year by year and we have seen a resultant move away from guiding principles of free market and free movement into territory that Britain has, rightly, claimed for years impinges upon a nations sovereignty. Resistance to this scope creep is met with threats and fear mongering (Nice treaty and Ireland anyone?).
The EU is ineffective at dealing with crises and ones that matter deeply to a large number of average people, whether British or otherwise. The economic collapse that demonstrated to poor countries like Greece, Spain and Ireland who the masters and servants were is one example. The immigration crisis is another - no matter what side of the divide you fall on with respect to immigration noone could be satisfied with how the EU has responded. Thousands dying and many homeless.
In addition, Britain has always been the reluctant European. This reputation came long before mass immigration and the irrational EU expansion became an issue for the state and the people. They have never fully engaged or bought into the concept of Europe. "What has the EU ever done for us?" is a very legitimate question for the UK to ask. We should not be surprised by this decision on that basis alone.
It won't be an easy journey for the UK. They face the very real possibility of a break-up of the kingdom. The impact on Northern Ireland is significant too and of course the domino effect impact on (the Republic of) Ireland. Economically they will be fine in the long run. Geopolitically this destabilises Europe but i dont know what real risks will arise.
Interesting times. History in our lifetime and a decision that kids will be studying in the impacts of at school (on Mars) in a few hundred years time.
I like high energy football. A little bit rock and roll. Many finishes instead of waiting for the perfect one.
That's a fair assessment and nobody is sorry to see the EU get a kicking. But the consequences of the EU's failure is to hand the keys to the far right. That's what the EU's real success has been. It's why it was needed and still is.
Anyway, I love Twitter on days like these. Stuff like
"When ****ing a dead pig isn't the stupidest thing you've ever done"
and
"Damn you David Cameron, I can't even celebrate your resignation"
Made me laugh.
Seen it all now.
https://twitter.com/ianpaisleymp/sta...16224024481792
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