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Thread: Mourinho and Martin O'Neill

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    Mourinho and Martin O'Neill

    I’m bored so I’d just like to put the following out there to see if anyone agrees / disagrees:

    Mourinho is rightly being heralded for his successes so far this season, but he’s not necessarily as unique as the media are making out. I think he and Martin O’Neill have similar characteristics (especially MO’N in his first season at Celtic).

    Each has the total respect of his players and the players trust their coach completely.
    Neither believes 4-4-2 is the be-all and end-all and each has used other shapes with quite a degree of success
    Each appreciates the value of width and pace, and orthodox wide play
    Each emphasises the importance of set –pieces (unlike Wenger for example. I’m an Arsenal fan and I cringe every time we get a corner, and this year I cringe every time we concede one). How many of Celtic’s goals both in SPL and CL are from set pieces? How good are Chelsea at frees and corners?
    Each has a knack of grinding out undeserved 1-0 victories, especially in tough away games. Each then really puts teams away when they’re on top.
    Mourinho’s first season in Premiership so far looks like MON’s first season in Scotland.
    Mourinho probably played more stylish football than Celtic, especially with Porto, but though Celtic under MON can be tough and direct they can be pleasing on the eye too.
    Each is educated, intelligent and articulate.
    Neither is much phased by other managers or media, certainly not as much as Wenger & Ferguson.


    Anyway, that’s enough. With Chelsea’s resources, could MO’N be doing the same job?
    Last edited by Stuttgart88; 21/01/2005 at 4:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
    though Celtic under MON can be tough and direct they can be pleasing on the eye too.
    Intersting comparison on these two managers. Though you obviously haven't watched many Celtic games of late. We are many things but 'pleasing on the eye' is not one of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
    With Chelsea’s resources, could MO’N be doing the same job?
    Not convinced he would be. He's had a mixed success in the transfer market. Hartson, Sutton, Agathe all good. Sylla, Fernandez, Camara, Pearson, Juninho(as yet), Douglas & Hedman all well below par signings.

    The SPL limits his options when it comes to signing players
    however a fair number of those he has managed to sign have not been upto the mark.
    I thought you were off the drink Ronnie?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junior
    Intersting comparison on these two managers. Though you obviously haven't watched many Celtic games of late. We are many things but 'pleasing on the eye' is not one of them.
    Hopefully he learned yesterday that playing players in their best positions works. What is the point on playing Thompson in the centre and Petrov on the right? The both played in their correct positions yesterday and were 2 of the best players with Sutton being the only other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eirebhoy
    Hopefully he learned yesterday that playing players in their best positions works. What is the point on playing Thompson in the centre and Petrov on the right? The both played in their correct positions yesterday and were 2 of the best players with Sutton being the only other.
    Yer right in principle, though I didn't see much from Thompson on Saturday. Petrov always plays much better in the centre.

    Hope Laursen gets a run of games under his belt. Looks like he could solve the problem at LB.
    I thought you were off the drink Ronnie?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junior
    Not convinced he would be. He's had a mixed success in the transfer market. Hartson, Sutton, Agathe all good. Sylla, Fernandez, Camara, Pearson, Juninho(as yet), Douglas & Hedman all well below par signings.
    Would agree with that except for Pearson. I think he can be a fine player for us if he is allowed to develop.

    For all O'Neills good points, I've always felt that he doesn't give young players a proper chance. Last season Pearson was outstanding for us when he signed, I remember being at the Barcelona game at Parkhead and he was the best player on the park that night IMO, including Ronaldinho. His passing was good, off the ball running superb and his drive was fantastic.

    This season for whatever reasons (last season there was injuries which helped his cause) he hasn't been given a crack yet. Thompson has been well below his standards this season and I can't figure out why he hasn't been "rested" at all and Pearson hasn't been included.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junior
    Hope Laursen gets a run of games under his belt. Looks like he could solve the problem at LB.
    Me and every Celtic fan I know will disagree with you on that. Another who is below par, average at best. In fact, I don't think I've seen a defender with worse distrubution than Laursen

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    Quote Originally Posted by drinkfeckarse
    Me and every Celtic fan I know will disagree with you on that. Another who is below par, average at best. In fact, I don't think I've seen a defender with worse distrubution than Laursen
    He has obviously sufferred with injuries etc... and Im not suggesting he's an Ashley Cole or anything. However his last 3 or 4 performances have been very solid (i'd say he was MOTM versus the huns in the cup game). Mcmanus is knocking on the door as well, however he is definitely behind Laursen in the pecking order.

    As for distribution - see Balde.
    I thought you were off the drink Ronnie?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junior
    Mcmanus is knocking on the door as well, however he is definitely behind Laursen in the pecking order.

    As for distribution - see Balde.

    McManus has looked good and for me, should be ahead of Laursen but he's young and O'Neill doesn't seem overly keen to have to rely on him.

    As for Bobo, can't disagree with you there He is, however, very good at what he does and that is the basic art of defending so as long as he doesn't get too carried away with himself and start thinking he's Maldini he'll be alright

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    I'm not sure it's fair to compare their successes in the transfer market. Chelsea can buy who they like, MO'N has to pick up bargains, or take risks on Bosmans etc.

    My main focus I suppose is on organisation, knack of getting the points in 50/50 games, appreciation of width and excellent use of set-pieces.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drinkfeckarse
    McManus has looked good and for me, should be ahead of Laursen but he's young and O'Neill doesn't seem overly keen to have to rely on him.

    As for Bobo, can't disagree with you there He is, however, very good at what he does and that is the basic art of defending so as long as he doesn't get too carried away with himself and start thinking he's Maldini he'll be alright
    Agree MON dosn't have a track record with blooding youngsters, though Aiden is taking his chance and Im convinced that Kennedy would be a regular for us right now if it wasn't for his injury. It would be nice to give the likes of Beattie,Wallace, Maloney (when he's fit) more minutes on the field particularly in the SPHell

    As for Bobo, he can tackle and head a ball & is a great fans favourite because of his no-nonsense approach. However if the rumours of him requesting a £30 - £40k per week salary are to be believed, I would sell him in a flash.
    I thought you were off the drink Ronnie?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
    I'm not sure it's fair to compare their successes in the transfer market. Chelsea can buy who they like, MO'N has to pick up bargains, or take risks on Bosmans etc.

    My main focus I suppose is on organisation, knack of getting the points in 50/50 games, appreciation of width and excellent use of set-pieces.
    50/50 games? in SPL yep I'd agree, though in the CL (albeit to far better teams than us) we were in 50/50 positions at 1-1 to both Barca at home and Milan away - and lost both games 3-1. (these CL games are absolutely crucial to celtic)

    Appreciation of Width - I'd agree with you to a point, but would come from the perspective that he believes in big strong target men up front - by default you inevitably need a wide man to provide the ammunition to these guys. Mourinho has 2 wide men more than capable of not only providing ammunition but also of beating men and scoring themselves - not something you see that often in MON's current side.

    Set-Pieces - undoubtedly. Celtic must spend some amount of time on these in training, as we score a fair few from them. Our size as a team means we would rarely get out muscled in either box.
    I thought you were off the drink Ronnie?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junior
    Agree MON dosn't have a track record with blooding youngsters, though Aiden is taking his chance and Im convinced that Kennedy would be a regular for us right now if it wasn't for his injury. It would be nice to give the likes of Beattie,Wallace, Maloney (when he's fit) more minutes on the field particularly in the SPHell

    As for Bobo, he can tackle and head a ball & is a great fans favourite because of his no-nonsense approach. However if the rumours of him requesting a £30 - £40k per week salary are to be believed, I would sell him in a flash.

    Agree with all that.

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    I'd say Pat Fenlon has more in common with Kaiser Jose than MON

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuttgart88 View Post
    I’m bored so I’d just like to put the following out there to see if anyone agrees / disagrees:

    Mourinho is rightly being heralded for his successes so far this season, but he’s not necessarily as unique as the media are making out. I think he and Martin O’Neill have similar characteristics (especially MO’N in his first season at Celtic).

    Each has the total respect of his players and the players trust their coach completely.
    Neither believes 4-4-2 is the be-all and end-all and each has used other shapes with quite a degree of success
    Each appreciates the value of width and pace, and orthodox wide play
    Each emphasises the importance of set –pieces (unlike Wenger for example. I’m an Arsenal fan and I cringe every time we get a corner, and this year I cringe every time we concede one). How many of Celtic’s goals both in SPL and CL are from set pieces? How good are Chelsea at frees and corners?
    Each has a knack of grinding out undeserved 1-0 victories, especially in tough away games. Each then really puts teams away when they’re on top.
    Mourinho’s first season in Premiership so far looks like MON’s first season in Scotland.
    Mourinho probably played more stylish football than Celtic, especially with Porto, but though Celtic under MON can be tough and direct they can be pleasing on the eye too.
    Each is educated, intelligent and articulate.
    Neither is much phased by other managers or media, certainly not as much as Wenger & Ferguson.


    Anyway, that’s enough. With Chelsea’s resources, could MO’N be doing the same job?
    Just came across this from 9 years ago. Hmmm, grinding 0-1 results when away from home. Any change in perspective now, Stutts?
    Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.

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    Well, the Georgia away game was like some of MON's early away results. One late goal at Dunfermline early in his tenure springs to mind. Anyway, let's see. We lost one game away. He regularly lost away games in Europe but his home form, benefitting from set pieces, was excellent. We can only hope for more of the same I suppose, although Strachan had an infinitely better record of getting out of groups.

    I do recall O'Neill being flexible and adventurous at some away games, notably using Moravcik at Ibrox to good effect. It disappoints me that he doesn't seem prepared to use Hoolahan in the same way.

    Things change and I think the game in general has moved on a lot more than O'Neill has in the last 9 years. That worries me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuttgart88 View Post
    Strachan had an infinitely better record of getting out of groups.
    True. Strachan got them out twice, didn't he? And Lennon a couple of time since. I think the CL has got progressively worse over the years though. MON lost out with nine points in his first season (in the CL), and would have qualified for sure only for being borderline cheated in Turin. The Porto team that Celtic finished behind were outstanding compared to the Benfica sides that Strachan and Lennon competed with. That said, MON had a much heftier wallet to play with so maybe things balanced out in that sense.

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    One game does stick out for me was when Celtic were well beaten by a pretty dire Rosenberg in Norway. O Neill looked like he hadn't a clue what he was doing, tactically all over the place, making a hames of the substitutions and looking clueless. That game proved to me that he would never be able to manage a top team, or at least a team that expects to get to the later stages of the CL. Think he found his level tbf

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    Quote Originally Posted by bennocelt View Post
    One game does stick out for me was when Celtic were well beaten by a pretty dire Rosenberg in Norway. O Neill looked like he hadn't a clue what he was doing, tactically all over the place, making a hames of the substitutions and looking clueless. That game proved to me that he would never be able to manage a top team, or at least a team that expects to get to the later stages of the CL. Think he found his level tbf
    Absolutely. A decent manager and no more.
    Lets talk about six baby

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    Sorry to be self-indulgent and commenting on a thread I started 13 years ago, but I think in late 2018 there's one more similarity between Jose and Martin we can add to the list!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuttgart88 View Post
    Sorry to be self-indulgent and commenting on a thread I started 13 years ago, but I think in late 2018 there's one more similarity between Jose and Martin we can add to the list!
    They were both sacked ?
    Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.

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