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Thread: Gaa 2016

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    Gaa 2016

    Some bad contests this weekend: Blowout wins for Dublin and Monaghan, and a slog of a match in Thurles with a crazy number of wides. This sweeper system makes for pure dirt hurling, whatever its effectiveness. That and the Christy Ring debacle not exactly covering the Association in glory, you'd have to imagine that Antrim will be granted a replay.
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    Seasoned Pro NeverFeltBetter's Avatar
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    Good. Been going mad reading Meath people insisting the result should stand.
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    Seasoned Pro Kingdom's Avatar
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    Worst bounced GAA thread for a few years, sums up exactly how bad the GAA season (at Inter-co level) has been in 2016. Honestly it's probably the worst season since 2003.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom View Post
    Worst bounced GAA thread for a few years, sums up exactly how bad the GAA season (at Inter-co level) has been in 2016. Honestly it's probably the worst season since 2003.
    I'd've said 2014, 2009, 2006 and 2004 at least were worse? :P

    I've been considering bouncing it but honestly, this A and B muck has destroyed what was left in the joy of the qualifiers.

    This is not a dig at Kerry (Ye can only play what's in front of ye), but in all honesty, to have to play Clare, Tipp and then Clare again to get to a SF is a joke! The A and B side of the draw serves to remove any chance of a surprise draw in the QF. Having A and B makes sense for scheduling the qualifiers but after the last round it should be open draw for places in the QF for the qualifiers.

    Still can only see a Dublin-Tyrone final at the moment. We'll see what Cork spring this weekend.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonnieShels View Post
    I've been considering bouncing it but honestly, this A and B muck has destroyed what was left in the joy of the qualifiers.

    This is not a dig at Kerry (Ye can only play what's in front of ye), but in all honesty, to have to play Clare, Tipp and then Clare again to get to a SF is a joke! The A and B side of the draw serves to remove any chance of a surprise draw in the QF. Having A and B makes sense for scheduling the qualifiers but after the last round it should be open draw for places in the QF for the qualifiers.
    Kerry hammered Limerick in Munster in 2011 and drew them again in the quarter finals. That was before the A and B spilt to I'm not sure that's responsible for Kerry's handy run, just the way it's worked out. The only difference in 2011 is that Cork weren't ambushed in Munster so it wasn't quite as noticeable.

    The A and B thing is the least of the issues, it's the entire structure. Hopefully the attendances continue to plummet, as it's about the only thing that will propel the desire for change in HQ.

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    Seasoned Pro Kingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonnieShels View Post
    I'd've said 2014, 2009, 2006 and 2004 at least were worse? :P

    I've been considering bouncing it but honestly, this A and B muck has destroyed what was left in the joy of the qualifiers.

    This is not a dig at Kerry (Ye can only play what's in front of ye), but in all honesty, to have to play Clare, Tipp and then Clare again to get to a SF is a joke! The A and B side of the draw serves to remove any chance of a surprise draw in the QF. Having A and B makes sense for scheduling the qualifiers but after the last round it should be open draw for places in the QF for the qualifiers.

    Still can only see a Dublin-Tyrone final at the moment. We'll see what Cork spring this weekend.
    Agree totally. The A and B system only works because the Provincials are scheduled horribly to begin with. Everyone accepts Sat night football is excellent. There is no reason why two provinces cannot run one weekend, and the other two the following week. Why is acceptable for some counties to play three games in three weeks in the qualifiers, but some counties can't play 3 games in two months - rubbish! I think the great thing about the qualifiers previously is that you could nearly have any potential match-up; now there's no real pleasure in the draws.

    While I understand the point you're making re: Kerry - and it's been valid for a while - this year isn't a great year to make it considering they've beaten two other quarter-finalists to make the quarter-final, something no other county has done. Still, it's not great preparation for a potential All Ireland SF not getting a crack at a Mayo or Donegal.

    It seems unlikely anyone is going to touch Dublin, but it ****es me off rightly the praise that Tyrone are getting. I think far too much smoke has been blown up them, and unfortunately it's only going to get worse because they are likely to make the All-Ireland final. Cork at most will keep this within touching distance of Donegal. If they beat Donegal, then it rightly raises the question of just how good everyone thinks the Ulster Championship is,

    Last point Bonnie. <In recent context> There is no huge difference between Munster and Connaught for standard. For Cork and Kerry, read Mayo and Galway; for Limerick read Roscommon; for Clare and Tipperary read Leitrim and Sligo. London and New York balance out Waterford. Yet Kerry have made the Q'f's every year since inception. Mayo nor Galway have come close to that. I appreciate that there is a slight difference in that Kerry and Cork have more-often-tan-not been kept apart in the prov draw, which does make a difference naturally, but it is still a damn fine record to be that consistent.
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    Capped Player DeLorean's Avatar
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    A Kerry man wanting credit for reaching quarter finals! The expectation levels must be slipping Kingdom.

    I don't think there's any question but Kerry have been more consistent than Mayo & Galway over the past 15 years, both of those have been putrid at various stages in that time.

    Kerry have pretty much been the best or second best team in Ireland during that time, so it would have been a major shock if they hadn't made the last eight at any stage. Was Down in 2010 the only time ye actually lost a quarter final btw?

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    Seasoned Pro Kingdom's Avatar
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    Kerry have had some shockingly bad teams since 2001 too apparently, yet it hasn't stopped them making the q/f every year, unlike Galway and Mayo, counties as storied in Gaelic football, with better club football and greater population sizes. Not looking for credit for that achievement, just think it's a nice one.

    I think there was a Donegal q/f defeat in 2012 too.
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    Capped Player DeLorean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom View Post
    Kerry have had some shockingly bad teams since 2001 too apparently
    That's news to me! Yeah they took a tanking off Meath one year but a complete freak result really. Cork were pretty poor for a lot of the early qualifier days as well, for a while Kerry's biggest obstacle in Munster was Limerick.

    Population sizes? We're hardly going down that road but, even if we are, surely 37 All Ireland's is a bigger stick to beat them with than a string of quarter final appearances.

    I'd imagine Kerry and Mayo's populations aren't exactly world's apart anyway? And Galway seems to be pretty much split in two in GAA terms.

    It's a good record (a perfect record, even), but I'd expect Kerry to make 99.999999999% of quarter finals to be honest, and I'm sure they'll continue to do so.
    Last edited by DeLorean; 27/07/2016 at 12:20 PM.

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    Seasoned Pro NeverFeltBetter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeLorean View Post
    for a while Kerry's biggest obstacle in Munster was Limerick.
    Those were the days. I can't even begin to muster enthusiasm for inter-county football in Munster anymore. You just wait for the qualifiers.
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    We will have a better idea of where Galway are after this weekend. The drawn game v Roscomon in the rain, could be the makings of this side as happened in 1998. Too much is always made of the "great Galway forwards" in my opinion, the double All-Ireland winning team had class backs in Tomas Mannion, Gary Fahy, Séan óg de Paor. So far this year the defence, especially 1 to 4, all in their first season of championship, have been impressive. A good win over Tipp can signal that they are serious contenders. I have a worry about the midfield and if the forwards can repeat the performance they showed in the replay of the Connacht final.
    I saw Clare last Saturday and I hope they can give Kerry a rattle, as one of the great things about sport is when the underdog makes a breakthrough.

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    Capped Player nigel-harps1954's Avatar
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    Clare v Kerry today was the first full match I've watched this year.

    I wish I hadn't bothered.

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    I'm assuming you stick round and watched he performance of the year then in Tipperary v Galway?
    What a game. Conor Sweeney has to be in All Star Contention now.

    There's so much I could go on about yesterday especially in Kerry v Clare. Kerry are in trouble it has to be saod, i know there's consensus that they're keeping their powder dry but outside of BJK, JOD and Darran (what a player), I saw nothing that would trouble the rest of the big 5. Dublin will tear through that HB line for breakfast. As would the McHugh's and McBrearty.

    But, I watched the game yesterday on RTÉ and the lack of anything about the thuggery of Donaghy was beyond belief. On the text commentary on RTÉ.ie there was nothing either. A brief mention by Colm O'Rourke after the break at HT and then it moved to Brolly going on about how Kerry were unmotivated as if that was to excuse his actions.

    We all know how biased I am against Kerry a the best of times yesterday but that just left me cold at how blatant the bias for them was. If that was Neil McGee there would have been outrage and apoplexy.

    Given how ineffectual he was yesterday as well it was beyond belief that he was playing as well.

    I'm sickened by it. More so by the deafening silence surrounding comment on it than by the actions as deplorable as they were.

    To say I was seething yesterday was an understatement. At least Tipperary managed to brighten up the day with that football.
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    I was at Croke Park yesterday and it is noticeable how much Kerry get away with, refs seem to apply rules to them differently.
    As a Galway man it was hard to take how poor our team was; I had a worry about midfield ok but the backs got cleaned out as well, yet none was taken off, strange.
    I must say that Tipp played great stuff and have some really talented players. It was also a joy to watch them celebrate with their fans, often the wins before the bandwagon really takes off are special. However they must not waste as many chances next day if they have any hope of making the final, they should have have scored six goals. Galway also had two great goal chances themselves in the first half, so Tipp have plenty to work on for next day. Yet it must have been a special day for them. Galway meanwhile confirmed that they are a 2nd division team and are still looking for at least one decent midfielder.

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    Coach BonnieShels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonder88 View Post
    I was at Croke Park yesterday and it is noticeable how much Kerry get away with, refs seem to apply rules to them differently.
    As a Galway man it was hard to take how poor our team was; I had a worry about midfield ok but the backs got cleaned out as well, yet none was taken off, strange.
    I must say that Tipp played great stuff and have some really talented players. It was also a joy to watch them celebrate with their fans, often the wins before the bandwagon really takes off are special. However they must not waste as many chances next day if they have any hope of making the final, they should have have scored six goals. Galway also had two great goal chances themselves in the first half, so Tipp have plenty to work on for next day. Yet it must have been a special day for them. Galway meanwhile confirmed that they are a 2nd division team and are still looking for at least one decent midfielder.
    So I'm not going mad?

    Like all of those interpretations of FF poll numbers as major gains, I'm staggered at how pundits keep thinking that Kerry are keeping their powder dry!

    They have been brutal. And haven't played a decent game. The last proper inter-county game they had was the league final and we put paid to them with relative ease that day. All the talk after was how they now know what they need to do in the championship etc, but they clearly learned nothing. But then again the other narrative was that "but for the black card" they could have won the league final. It's just beyond belief. Sometimes I feel like I'm in this alternate reality.

    The winners of the All-Ireland are playing next Saturday. That's the height of it.

    Kingdom, what's the internal chat re Donaghy? Hero? What are your thoughts on his antics on Sunday?
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    Seasoned Pro Kingdom's Avatar
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    My own take on Donaghy is that he offers nothing positive, and plenty of negatives, while detracting from the teams performance. He's the proverbial elephant in the room. While pointing to your own social media pages are never a good indicator, if I was to image my Fb updates and tweets on the days of Kerry games for the past 2 years then it would display the disgust I have for him and his antics for the past while, along with being selected. He is immobile, and doesn't appear capable of winning his own ball anymore. He is not inter-county standard at midfield either.
    The punch, let's call it what it was, on the Clare player - a much smaller player too - was unforgiveable, low and cheap. Part of me hopes the ccc take a look at it, and decide to ban him, because it removes one of the problems for Kerry.
    I think it also is high-time to start questioning Eamon Fitz. He definitely started off well, his coaching at colleges level is apparently legendary, and he has racked up an All-Ireland already. However, and it's a big however, he just doesn't look to believe in an alternative to the plan that he has in place at the moment. There has long been a worry that senior club football in the county is in a bad place and has been for a long time. Tralee football is in the doldrums, regardless of how many drums Stacks want to beat at matches. Rahilly's are a shambles, Mitchel's are about 10 years away from becoming a powerhouse.

    I never go in for (in GAA) the talk of "how many players would play on the Dublin team?" because it's not clever, and different counties do have different styles and traditions (something McGuiness spoke well about for once). But the Kerry squad is a worry. There are a lot of players that have been around the scene for a while without making the breakthrough, or the ones that made the breakthrough didn't keep the shoulder to the grind. Jack Sherwood, Pa Kilkenny, Jonny Lyne, all haven't delivered on their promise. Even Fionn Fitzgerald is a player who you would expect to develop into a great attacking defender. But he hasn't. Part of me looks at Fionn and thinks he'd be excellent in a system Dublin employ, but it's counter-productive to do that. It's a huge worry that Marc Sé and Aidan Mahony are still go-to-guys, particularly when there is more exposure for weaker clubs in the Kerry Championships than ever before.

    Paul Murphy is a great footballer. I wouldn't trade him for anyone. I think he's being charged with a horrible task, but he's a good enough footballer to cope, but it doesn't mask that we're robbing Peter to pay Paul by removing him from the half-back line. Mark Griffin & Shane Enright (if inconsistent), Begley looks like he has the makings of a really proper defender, but reference the trio above for him. If Kerry are employing a sweeper/stopper, then Peter Crowley needs to be nailed on for the role. He's made of granite, knows his limitations as a footballer, and is very clean in the tackle, and tackles well too for what it's worth. That's still two defenders short, three/four if you count that Kerry are averaging a black card a game - which is undeniably a problem now.

    He has made one great call in dropping Kealy - he's just not strong enough as a keeper - yet he's obviously instructing the replacement to vary the kick-outs, despite having Donaghy in midfield for what I can only believe to be catching purposes. It's maddening. Anthony Maher not being fully fit is a huge problem, he's an automatic starter for me. David Moran has flattered to deceive since his long-awaited breakthrough after injury. Buckley returning from injury should relieve Paul Murphy of duty from attack, but it remains to be seen whether Buckley is consistent enough either.

    Even allowing for all of the above, I still think Kerry are capable of beating anyone apart from Dublin. I don't believe that they are not capable of beating Dublin, just that the probability of it happening are low. I track it all back to when Ger Brennan literally stopped Declan O'Sullivan in his tracks. That was the turning point in the Kerry-Dublin relationship.


    I'm no sports psychologist (obviously) but I think that the managers and the squads themselves do work in funny ways. Look at Dublin now. They have a manager that knows nothing but success from his playing and management days. Kerry were never a threat to him as a player. I'm not saying that he rubbishes Kerry in his team-talks (or anyone else for that matter) but he is able to remove the aura/history/whatever that previous Dublin managers and other counties could not*. It's works in other ways too. It's arguable if anyone other than Paudí (agricultural as his tactics were) would have removed Kerry from their nineties slump. He had no fear of Cork and was able to instill this into a relatively young and inexperienced squad.
    Dublin are in the very enviable position of having reams and reams of players with either Minor, U21, Junior or Senior All-Ireland winning experience, and very little threat of adversity. That doesn't entitle you to an All-Ireland, but when you have a winning mindset, a very challenging squad, and a professional attitude and surroundings, it is very hard to beat that.
    *The reverse is true for Kerry. There is always a mindset about Down that has transcended generations. There is the hang-ups with Tyrone (which there isn't with Armagh)

    ----------------------

    Bonnie, on a fair level, what do you call the big 5? Dublin, Tyrone, Mayo, Monaghan, Donegal? Mayo beaten by Galway, who in turn were beaten by Tipp, who were in turn beaten by Kerry (although you could argue they were beaten by the occasion)?

    Kerry will not win an All-Ireland this year, nor were they ever. The win two years ago was very much a bonus All-Ireland, because the young players that won the All-Ireland down in Limerick in the replay, have either not kicked on, or just had an exceptional 6 weeks of football for ordinary players. Maybe I'm insulated from it, being of Kerry stock, but I never feel that you get from Kerry people speaking on a National stage any aura of arrogance or self-hype. I certainly don't feel Kerry are ever en-vogue or lauded from the hills a-la Donegal or Tyrone. The level of hate that there is for Kerry here I find somewhat upsetting. I can understand hate towards individuals (for Bonnie, read Kingdom, and for Donaghy read MDMA - even writing MDMA wants me to punch the wall), but not towards the county. Everyone seems to whinge that Kerry are dirty, or that Kerry portray themselves as holier-than-thou. We don't. We know we've cynical tactics, no different to every other county that wants to win the big one. Aidan O'Mahony was the best centre-back in the country by a country mile, and then decided to have a moment of madness against Cork, and his career has never been the same. Donaghy has always been a scumbag on the field, but because he isn't contributing positively only the negatives are discussed. I've no problem with that. But does anyone actually think Kerry get away with more than other counties? Kerry could have been relegated this season from Division 1 when Donegal came down to Tralee and tried to beat us up. There's no point debating that, because that's what happened. They have their fair share of ho-ers, too, as do Tyrone and Monaghan. Dublin have at least 3 absolute knackers in their side, and I don't care how that sounds. Because it works for them, and because they are the ones winning, no attention is drawn to it.

    Kerry were very poor in the All-Ireland final last year, and to be honest the rain and conditions probably helped Kerry keep the score respectable. We knew from 10 mins out that the goose was cooked. This years league final I genuinely feel was different. Whether Dublin were under-par and Kerry were improved I don't know, but I definitely felt that Kerry coped much better. The black card was definitely a turning point, but I agree with you Bonnie, I think age would have been the turning point anyway.

    Apologies that turned into a bit of a ramble.
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    Seasoned Pro Kingdom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonnieShels View Post
    So I'm not going mad?

    Like all of those interpretations of FF poll numbers as major gains, I'm staggered at how pundits keep thinking that Kerry are keeping their powder dry!
    That's your problem, listening to pundits. No different to Ireland games.
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    Coach BonnieShels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom View Post
    That's your problem, listening to pundits. No different to Ireland games.
    I hear them. I wouldn't say I listen to them.
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    Capped Player nigel-harps1954's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonnieShels View Post
    I'm assuming you stick round and watched he performance of the year then in Tipperary v Galway?
    What a game.
    What a game indeed. That was well worth the watch. I missed the first 20 minutes of it but was happy I switched back for the rest. Galway were overly cocky going into it and they got exactly what they deserved.

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