I think he's just bringing in players to see how they cope, same as he did with Byrne and tried to with Browne.Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
I would have liked Byrne, but otherwise that's about right.
I suspect McShane may well be one of those who are cut
I think he's just bringing in players to see how they cope, same as he did with Byrne and tried to with Browne.
I wouldn't necessarily say that. I think the FAI played it as best they could; any time we tried to call him up, he got cold feet, so the FAI gave him the time he needed as requested. It didn't go our way in the end, but what else can you do if the guy's priority is somewhere else? What other hand could the FAI plausibly have played?
I think this idea that "Grealish would be playing for us if only O'Neill had acted earlier" is overplayed somewhat in hindsight as it offers critics a convenient (but unfair, in my opinion) stick with which to beat O'Neill. The reality is that we don't know for certain if Grealish would have accepted a call-up for the US tour (Fallon claims he might/would have, but you just don't know), plus he'd been playing with Notts County at League Two level(?) for the season. He hadn't yet hit the Premier League and FA Cup semi-final headlines that captured the attention of casual observers. The only people really talking about him prior to that would have been staff and supporters keeping an eye on secondary and tertiary minutiae beyond the men's senior team. If I remember correctly, O'Neill (or anyone else in the staff set-up, for that matter) had absolutely no reason at the time to believe or fear Grealish, who'd been playing for us regularly, proudly and without issue from the age of 14, would make a switch to England a few months down the line either. So I think you can forgive O'Neill for having selected other players ahead of Grealish on that occasion. Well, unless you're Dunphy or someone who'll see fault in anything and everything with the "wisdom" of hindsight.
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 12/05/2016 at 8:17 PM.
I am not saying it's the case. But a guy in L1 (at the time) loan from a Prem side not included in the US tour, a non event of a squad. And now a guy in L2 full stop, in a key pre tournament squad announcement. I am all for seeing the colour of these guys intentions nice and early, and this represents that at least surely ?
I was saying he seems to have slipped down the pecking order for us, not Hull. If anything I was defending him, saying I don't see much sense in calling up Gleeson when even Meyler is struggling to see game time for us.
There might be something in it, but it might also be a case of simply being impressed with him in the U-21 game and the "Paint Final" at Wembley which followed a week later, like he said. Even if it is a case of trying to ensure he doesn't switch to England, it's still probably because he was very impressed by him.
If O'Neill's intentions are a little cynical, the timing could be ingenious. Give the young fella a little flavour of being in and around the squad just before the Euros hype. Watching the lads he's trained with so recently going out and playing in front of a sea of green in Paris, etc. should definitely heighten his desire, if it even needs heightening.
I get the impression that O'Neill is far more educated in relation to his playing pool now than he was even 12-18 months ago. I got the feeling previously when he was asked about certain, less obvious players that he'd just reply with fairly generic answers. He seems to have a lot more information on everybody he's asked about now.
Last edited by DeLorean; 13/05/2016 at 9:56 AM.
I'd like to have seen Doherty & Cunningham too, though neither would probably have made my final 23.
Coleman and Christie are the top 2 RBs, Ward, Brady and Christie are the current LB options. That doesn't even include O'Shea, Clark and Wilson who could do a job in those spots if required.
Moderate disappointment that they're not included in this squad but it's not anything more dramatic than that.
I think McShane and one or two others are being let down lightly by not being jettisoned completely.
Yep. That's my thinking. I think the squad will be cut to 26 who will be the final 23 plus 3 to go on standby for france
Bring Back Belfast Celtic F.C.
Political squad selections should not be imposed < than one month before a tournament begins.
Is anyone really fickle enough to think a player will make an Intl decision based on being cynically called up to "get a sense of the set-up".
If that is what someone is basing a decision like that on, I despair.
do...not...bite...the...bait
I will bite then.
Firstly, he wont be "in the squad" TOWK. He'll train with the squad as a supernumerary invitee as Byrne and Forrester did before him. Its not "political" (you've just decided that it is) as he has already made his international career choice and it is really not a big deal why it was done or why he accepted. Its a great gesture from management to offer to all these players and from the players to accept. Its called succession planning.
Whether its succession planning, aggressive asset protection strategy, bluff calling, increased awareness post Leicester/Vardy in the game generally not to ignore lower league talent - I am all for it, to be clear. Its refreshing and exciting. And thanks for the several replies lads, particularly DeLoreans excellent one.
Really? I didn't know that.
I still think it's a ridiculous idea. The only people who should be in the squad are people who have a realistic chance of featuring in the tournament that commences in four weeks.
Could still be political. He wouldn't be the first to accept a call-up and go on to feature for another country. *Cough Alex Bruce*
I'll reserve judgment and give him the benefit of the doubt on that.
I just think calling up a League Two player for any reason this close to a tournament has to raise eyebrows.
I mean Jack Byrne has been one of the best young players in Holland this season and even Forrester was playing at a higher level and had over 150 games in Ireland - and they just got called up for the March friendlies.
I wouldn't have the slightest problem with O'Dowda being called-up/invited to train for an August friendly.
Frankly, going back to Byrne. His lack of presence rankles with me while we're talking about succession. And neither Cunningham or Doherty getting called up is baffling. Even young Darragh Lenihan has been scouted by Premier League clubs due to his form and he is excluded. John Egan has a big reputation and is set to earn a belated Championship move - excluded. Despite O'Shea's impending retirement.
These players are two friggin' leagues above O'Dowda!
Here is what I think. Firstly, lets make no mistakes here. Its a 40 man roster. That will be whittled down to low twenties for the friendlies and down again for the finals. As discussed here a lot, there are maybe 3-4 positions that are "up for grabs" and I use that in the most restricted sense of the words. What I mean is that each of those positions is up for grabs between one other player or could change dependent on scenario planning (e.g. does MON want to account for player versatility?). But the pool that will be looked at by MON and Keane is 3 or 4 players, absolute maximum.
You have to understand that O'Dowda will not be in the squad. You acknowledged it but then immediately dismissed it so you could get all angry again. He'll train with the team, during the friendly window only, with a view to involving him more during the next campaign. re Byrne and Forrester the same has already been done and, I think, with the same intention. Not political - these guys are Irish born which leads me to believe that O'Dowda's call up is done with a similar intention. With some of the older lads you mentioned they should be called up for autumn. But not now, not with an eye to the finals and what O'Neill needs to realistically figure out for that, as I set out earlier in this post.
What should really rankle is if we do not see all these players called up for the autumn friendlies. I'm well behind you in that scenario.
How can you reconcile those statements? Doherty and Cunningham won't be in the squad because we have several full backs and full back cover. No squad picks 6 full backs. John Egan has no chance of making the 23 yet you moan about him not being included despite being a lower league player. Lenihan similar.
Bafflingly inconsistent, apart from your persistent overreaction and negativity.
I had a look on YBIG to see if they knew any more than us about Cleary leaving Liverpool (they don't) and had a look at their reaction to O'Dowda being called up. It seems mostly negative, a lot of them sighting the League 2 thing. I only saw a few minutes of O'Dowda when he came on against Swansea and that highlights reel but I was immediately excited by him.
Funny with all the talk of League 2, the two games O'Neill has referred to weren't League 2 games at all, but against a team littered with Serie A players as CD pointed out at the time and a Barnsley side that have made the League 1 playoffs.
I think with players of O'Dowda's type also, you don't want to miss out on their younger years, that fearlessness when they just run and run taking players on. That's usually coached out of them pretty quickly and although they might become better players in other ways, they lose the raw energy that makes the crowd buzz.
Now I know I could be bigging him up way too much, but I'm delighted O'Neill seemed to see what I saw and we now know that he's on the radar. It was a really pleasant surprise as far as I'm concerned.
It's not "political", whatever that means exactly. It's forward-planning.
Using the word "imposed" just seems to be another way you place a negative spin on O'Neill's method/selections. O'Neill invites players he fancies or wants a closer look at to join the squad; they generally tend to accept the call and volunteer their services. O'Neill then refines and selects his team based on who's useful, willing and available. That's how the selection process works. What's being "imposed" exactly?
And players base decisions on a combination of factors, like any human being. They weigh up factors. O'Dowda's commitment isn't in question, but if bedding the guy in is one factor that will go towards encouraging him to commit for good or towards reinforcing his present desire to play for us (and it might do that; it's sure to make him feel welcome and wanted), I don't see the harm. It's mutually beneficial as a talented player for the future gets a feel of things as well and knows he's got a fighting chance of making a squad down the line. That provides motivation and incentive.
Being called up now will hardly be the only factor or even the most significant factor in O'Dowda's decision-making process if and when he does finally commit to tying himself, but it might just contribute a bit. If not and he would have committed anyway, no harm. If it does help "seal the deal", so to speak, great. Nobody is as mono-dimensional as you make them out to be. Recognise nuance and the possibility of alternative explanations rather than making knee-jerk presumptions and jumping to unreasonable conclusions about people on scant evidence, as that's just completely unfair on the subject and gets people's goat.
Even if there is an element of wanting to try and secure his commitment (if that's what you mean by "political"), so what? It'd be one aspect of the selection and not the only reason O'Neill will have selected him as he evidently sees the guy as a talent too, just like how he sees Jack Byrne.
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 13/05/2016 at 7:54 PM.
Forrester never got as far as training with the squad - Byrne and Browne were supposed to but only Byrne did as Browne was injured. Ian Lawlor and Eunan O'Kane have been invited in similar circumstances before - O'Kane is now in with a shout of making the finals squad.
Cowabunga dude.
It's kind of been pointed out in the many excellent posts above, but seems to me Martin O'Neill basically saw a young guy play and went: 'Huh, I like this kid. I'll get him involved and see what's he like in training to get a closer look and give him some exposure.'
There is absolutely no downside to this, except in the nihilistic acknowledgement that talking about such matters is pointless because we're all gonna die some day.
Ou-est le Centre George Pompidou?
Towk if Byrne odowda and Forrester don't get picked for the august friendlies let's come back and revisit. For now just lets look forward to the Euros.Otherwise you're just arguing about the noise the sizzle of a sausage frying on a pan makes.
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