Irish involvement in the Football League playoffs

**tetsujin1979** · 17/05/2016, 9:49 AM

You'd have to imagine Newcastle and Norwich will be among the favourites for automatic promotion next season, not sure if Brighton will be in the mix again. This might have been their big chance for promotion.

**Stuttgart88** · 17/05/2016, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I'll go with the BBC.

There was a way past him. It was 1-1!

**Stuttgart88** · 17/05/2016, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

They both have body language but one can make agile saves. Body language and looking composed speaks nothing for actually having to do something when its needed.

Given looked composed and assured when stepping up to penalties, he rarely saved one..

And thats the only statement that matters, he made the saves he was asked and expected to make, I can't say the same about any of our other keepers, and we have proof of this in the past. We can't afford to have a keeper that doesn't (like stockdale) as we won't have the ability to recover to score the goals required - just like Brighton didn't.

That's a bit disingenuous. For a start, Shay and penalties is just a dumb example.

Randolph and Stockdale are incomparable. Stockdale looked shaky right from the start of the first leg.

I agree on "making the saves you should make" point but it doesn't stop there. The body language thing is important. A team - especially a team like ours - needs a keeper with a presence and defenders need to be confident in him. It was clear last night that Westwood is 100% trusted by his teammates and owns his area. I can't say one way or the other about Randolph at West Ham but Randolph for Ireland has exuded authority. It surprised me, but it impressed me. I think he immediately brought something to our defence at home to Germany that was lacking with Shay. It's an intangible, hard to quantify thing. As an ex-keeper whose teammates used to shout "Nooooo!" when I shouted "Keeeeper's!!!" I should know.

Who do I trust more? Westwood? But I think you're overplaying the Randolph as a liability thing too. That's all.

**DeLorean** · 17/05/2016, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

EDIT: RTE website headline "Westwood heroics...". Am I being too parsimonious in my praise?

No, you're not at all. Stockdale, as dodgy as he was over the two legs, made by far the best save of the match. You may have been too parsimonious in your praise towards that actual save alright, I thought it was really top class. I'm glad Westwood's making the headlines though, merited or otherwise. The more that helps his case for inclusion the better.

Westwood did what you would expect but didn't have to pull anything out of the top drawer really, even the save late on that Geysir mentioned was pretty routine. Two dodgy kickouts as well, one he really fluffed which could have been dangerous and the other went straight out of play high up the pitch, not that it caused any harm really, just relinquished possession a bit too easily.

I agree with Geysir when he mentioned about "thriving like a pig in muck" tough. He's hyper active looking around his penalty area, always moving and keeping himself alert. I really like this about him and I think it probably helps with his reactions as he's on the go non-stop, when something happens he only has to react physically, as he's already there mentally.

I also agree with Paul's take generally, hyperbole aside as Randolph has been very good for us. I think it's vital we have our best goalkeeper between the sticks though. It's not a splitting hairs exercise, if he can manage to get a finger on one shot that Randolph or Given can't, it could (and probably will) make all the difference. It's arguably the most important position on the pitch when it comes to small margins making a massive difference, yet there will probably be more noise made about who starts in all of the other positions.

**OwlsFan** · 17/05/2016, 12:43 PM

I am not sure that the shot which went under the wall was routine. He was guarding the other side of the goal and had to get down very quickly and save it. Perhaps because he reads the shots so well they are routine. Even the free kick which came off the post, Westwood was very close to it.

**Stuttgart88** · 17/05/2016, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by DeLorean

I agree with Geysir when he mentioned about "thriving like a pig in muck" tough. He's hyper active looking around his penalty area, always moving and keeping himself alert. I really like this about him and I think it probably helps with his reactions as he's on the go non-stop, when something happens he only has to react physically, as he's already there mentally.

That's what I was referring to, or including, in my "body language" point. The way he operates - including his busy-ness -exudes positivity and confidence.

And yes, Stockdale's save was brilliant and at a crucial time too. You wouldn't want to be relying on him though - I think that's the kind of point we all agree on. What a goal it would have been though. Super break, sumptuous cross, bullet header...

**DeLorean** · 17/05/2016, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

I am not sure that the shot which went under the wall was routine. He was guarding the other side of the goal and had to get down very quickly and save it. Perhaps because he reads the shots so well they are routine. Even the free kick which came off the post, Westwood was very close to it.

It was the save late on that I meant was routine, good height and close to him. Obviously his positioning helped here as well though. The one you're talking about was a decent save alright but would probably have raised questions had it gone in.

**Stuttgart88** · 17/05/2016, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

I am not sure that the shot which went under the wall was routine. He was guarding the other side of the goal and had to get down very quickly and save it. Perhaps because he reads the shots so well they are routine. Even the free kick which came off the post, Westwood was very close to it.

The guy who took it was livid with himself. He scuffed it. The idea was to hit it low and crisp but he didn't catch it right, so I'd say it was a routine save. Great idea...

I think Westwood was beaten all ends up by the free that hit the post! Inches and fractions of seconds are everything. He reacted well - others may have just stayed rooted - but he was second favourite all the way.

**paul_oshea** · 17/05/2016, 2:21 PM

Originally Posted by DeLorean

I also agree with Paul's take generally, hyperbole aside as Randolph has been very good for us. I think it's vital we have our best goalkeeper between the sticks though. It's not a splitting hairs exercise, if he can manage to get a finger on one shot that Randolph or Given can't, it could (and probably will) make all the difference. It's arguably the most important position on the pitch when it comes to small margins making a massive difference, yet there will probably be more noise made about who starts in all of the other positions.

There is no hyperbole. I think most, maybe not you, have looked at him from September/October last year. I've "seen" him since his debut against Oman, and the away games in the USA. I am saying it because I know what he is capable of and what he is not, as you say the small things become big things, or fine margins can make all the difference. I can attribute 4-5 goals at least where a better keeper would have more than likely saved them. I'd say westwood would have at least got 2 or 3 of those as well.

**Stuttgart88** · 17/05/2016, 2:33 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

There is no hyperbole. I think most, maybe not you, have looked at him from September/October last year. I've "seen" him since his debut against Oman, and the away games in the USA. I am saying it because I know what he is capable of and what he is not, as you say the small things become big things, or fine margins can make all the difference. I can attribute 4-5 goals at least where a better keeper would have more than likely saved them. I'd say westwood would have at least got 2 or 3 of those as well.

I'd say they're all fair points and you could add some silly club goals too. I've said the same thing about those same games. The difference is how you present your argument (I, POS, have unique insight...) and the scale of it (his lack of agility WILL cost us, mark my words). I think it's a question of degrees. I'm happier with Randolph than I previously had been with Forde and Given. He's been good for us. Westwood would probably have been better or at least as good, but we can't know, he missed too many games.

**tetsujin1979** · 17/05/2016, 2:33 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

There is no hyperbole. I think most, maybe not you, have looked at him from September/October last year. I've "seen" him since his debut against Oman, and the away games in the USA. I am saying it because I know what he is capable of and what he is not, as you say the small things become big things, or fine margins can make all the difference. I can attribute 4-5 goals at least where a better keeper would have more than likely saved them. I'd say westwood would have at least got 2 or 3 of those as well.

name these goals, and provide proof that Westwood would have saved them

**geysir** · 17/05/2016, 2:45 PM

I know Westwood is no Lev Yashin but he was more than just making routine saves out there, unless the standard is "routine first class goalkeeping".

I didn't think the Brighton lad scuffed that low free kick shot, he aimed into the corner, Westwood anticipated well, got down ahead of time, got a strong arm behind the ball and secured possession under pressure from a lurking Brighton player. That's first class goalkeeping, not just routine.
A routine save would be to parry the ball away and if he's lucky out of danger.
For the last save, routine would be to come way of his line and the ball struck straight at him, he would have been applauded for "making his body big" .)
As it was, he had to dive to his right, a fractions early instinctive save to firmly block a bullet with both his arms.

**DeLorean** · 17/05/2016, 3:02 PM

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

His usual option is to bring on man mountain Nuhiu who is Tony Cascarino gone wrong.

I thought it was a joy to behold when he bulldozed everything in sight out of his way as he managed to retain possession late on against all the odds.

**paul_oshea** · 17/05/2016, 4:31 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

I know Westwood is no Lev Yashin but he was more than just making routine saves out there, unless the standard is "routine first class goalkeeping".

I didn't think the Brighton lad scuffed that low free kick shot, he aimed into the corner, Westwood anticipated well, got down ahead of time, got a strong arm behind the ball and secured possession under pressure from a lurking Brighton player. That's first class goalkeeping, not just routine.
A routine save would be to parry the ball away and if he's lucky out of danger.
For the last save, routine would be to come way of his line and the ball struck straight at him, he would have been applauded for "making his body big" .)
As it was, he had to dive to his right, a fractions early instinctive save to firmly block a bullet with both his arms.

I've not watched it and I've no idea what the save was like, but I agree with you

I don't need to have seen the video to know that it was obviously more than just a routine save.

**Charlie Darwin** · 17/05/2016, 4:34 PM

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

name these goals, and provide proof that Westwood would have saved them

Considering Randolph has only conceded six goals for Ireland I'd say it's more or less all of them.

**tetsujin1979** · 17/05/2016, 5:01 PM

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Considering Randolph has only conceded six goals for Ireland I'd say it's more or less all of them.

I had thought it was any goal he conceded since his debut, club or international

**Charlie Darwin** · 17/05/2016, 5:07 PM

Ah, maybe.

**seanfhear** · 17/05/2016, 5:31 PM

I wonder how long it will take Dumbfy to discover how good of form Westwood is in if Randolph /Given makes a mistake

**DeLorean** · 17/05/2016, 9:50 PM

Brilliant effort from Derby tonight, some contrast to Saturday. Guts and bottle in abundance but unfortunately just left themselves with too much to do. They can't have any complaints after the shambles at the weekend but some pride restored at least.

Bradley Johnson and Ince were dropped for Hendrick and Weimann and the changes really worked a treat. Hendrick actually played the holding midfield role, allowing Hughes to motor further forward. Those two and Johnny Russell were the pick of the bunch I thought, lovely intricate passing movements all night. It was a really mature performance from Hendrick and he showed no signs of not having played a proper match for a few weeks. He was far more suited to the role than Hughes was on Saturday, who was a little bit lightweight for the position.

Christie was instrumental in Derby's opening goal, a powerful run down the right before whipping in a decent cross that Martin kept alive and Russell bundled in at the second attempt. Keogh had an easy enough night, no major pressure applied by Hull for the majority of the game but he carried the ball out of defence well.

Meyler came on for Hull and used his experience to slow down the game, buying a free kick or two and generally adding a bit of composure to their play.