League of Ireland in Europe 2016

[nigel-harps1954]

I don't agree LoI is "largely" long-ball to a big man up top, with physicality trumping any skill. (Harps definitely are, mind). Agree on Pat's and Dundalk. Cork played excellent stuff when I saw them against Genk. And while all three of UCD's European goals last year were from long balls, there was plenty of comment - particularly during the Slovan game away that was live on telly - about how great it was to watch an Irish team look to pass the ball.

There's not too many sides within the league that you can say play free-flowing football. Cork were good against Genk, but against Harps in Turners Cross there wasn't an awful lot of football played when I was there watching.

[pineapple stu]

That's because you were watching Harps though.

[oriel]

A League of Ireland team just went to Holland and played better football than the home team. Think about that. Because Dundalk are making us reconsider what we think we know. They call into question the idea that our national team is restricted to a long ball game because that's 'our footballing culture.' They, as Kenny Cunningham vpointed out on Thursday, call into question the idea that League of Ireland players never, ever deserve a place in the national squad until they move cross-channel. And they call into question the general writing off of the League of Ireland in Irish sporting culture.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-35057268.html

Another excellent piece by Sweeney. Dundalk are fortunate that only one EL match is played in October and the final 3 games including the two longest away trips are after the league season ends.

However there is nothing fortunate about the Euro campaign so far, EL P points out only one win, and that's fine, also Dundalk lost the same amount as Cork (2) a fair comparison but the difference was the two performances after those two defeats, 3-0 win over BATE and one minute away from beating Legia away from home.

I said at the start that I'd be delighted with 4 points from the group, the next 5 matches will be all very tough games, especially the two v Zenit, but there is a lot of hope now that we can challenge a little more.

If we can get a result in the next game v Tel Aviv in Tallght at the end of the month, that might offer more hope for a successful group campaign. One game at a time though.

[legendz]

If you're going to put out a humble opinion, you have to expect it to be humbly challenged or humbly shown to be nonsense.

Seriously, why should the EL group stages be regionalised?

A 64 team tournament as suggested affording all league champions an EL safety net is a big tournament in terms of numbers of teams involved.

For such a tournament, from a promotional and marketing point of view two regions of 8 groups might be more manageable. The Europa League is already perceived as big. 64 might be overload. It might be easier to promote 8 groups in two regions. East could have a fixed kickoff time of 18.30CET. West could have a fixed kickoff time of 21.00CET.

My understanding of the history and creation of the EL is that it was in part to appease clubs from the likes of Scotland and the Netherlands who were talking of a North Atlantic league. The EL has offered a competition of that level.

There is an evolution of competitions. Now I would like to see groups of clubs from nearby countries. It's what the likes of the North Atlantic league might have offered. Many might not agree. That's fine.

[White Horse]

There's not too many sides within the league that you can say play free-flowing football. Cork were good against Genk, but against Harps in Turners Cross there wasn't an awful lot of football played when I was there watching.

Cork can play football, and have done so on occasions this year. There is a tendency for them to resort to a long ball game when under pressure.

[nigel-harps1954]

Cork can play football, and have done so on occasions this year. There is a tendency for them to resort to a long ball game when under pressure.

This is it though. My point exactly. Every team are capable of playing football, but nobody is doing it on a consistent basis like Dundalk in the league.

[pineapple stu]

A 64 team tournament as suggested affording all league champions an EL safety net is a big tournament in terms of numbers of teams involved.

Why should all league champions even get a safety net?

For such a tournament, from a promotional and marketing point of view two regions of 8 groups might be more manageable.

Why would it be more manageable than at present?

The Europa League is already perceived as big. 64 might be overload.

That's not really a plus for your plan, is it?

It might be easier to promote 8 groups in two regions. East could have a fixed kickoff time of 18.30CET. West could have a fixed kickoff time of 21.00CET.

But it's already in two regions for TV reasons - so your plan adds nothing. And east/west regions comes back to the fundamental issue you've ignored again - what's wrong with Dundalk having to go to Russia?

This is what El-Pietro meant when he said you've thought nothing through.

[legendz]

Why should all league champions even get a safety net?

It's a matter of opinion. I would like to see league champions having the guarantee of more European games. European experience is beneficial. An advantage of being league champions should be more opportunities in Europe. If other's don't agree, that's fine.

Why would it be more manageable than at present?

That's not really a plus for your plan, is it?

Both points here are related. I think groups West A to H and groups East A to H is more marketable than 16 groups A to P. That's my opinion on my preference for the competition to expand to 64.

But it's already in two regions for TV reasons - so your plan adds nothing. And east/west regions comes back to the fundamental issue you've ignored again - what's wrong with Dundalk having to go to Russia?

Firstly I'm discussing two regions in the context of my preference for an expansion to 64 teams.
Trips to Israel and Russia are long for both the club and supporters. As would have happened in a North Atlantic league, I would prefer to see them play teams of that level from the west side of Europe. Dundalk are going playing their EL games in Tallaght. It doesn't say much for the attraction of playing teams from eastern Europe at this stage of the competition.
In two regions, there's a good probability of teams having a rivalry over a number of seasons. Rivalries like that tend to add value to a competition in time when competitions become established.

[pineapple stu]

It's a matter of opinion. I would like to see league champions having the guarantee of more European games. European experience is beneficial. An advantage of being league champions should be more opportunities in Europe. If other's don't agree, that's fine.

It's not about agreeing or not agreeing, or about this just being your opinion - you surely have to have some sort of valid, objective, reason for this?

Both points here are related. I think groups West A to H and groups East A to H is more marketable than 16 groups A to P. That's my opinion on my preference for the competition to expand to 64.

As above - you've given no reason at all for this.

Trips to Israel and Russia are long for both the club and supporters.

What? Who says? It's just a four-hour flight. A bus from Dublin to Donegal is longer.

As would have happened in a North Atlantic league, I would prefer to see them play teams of that level from the west side of Europe. Dundalk are going playing their EL games in Tallaght. It doesn't say much for the attraction of playing teams from eastern Europe at this stage of the competition.

AZ Alkmaar, that well-known eastern European team Dundalk will be forced to play in little old Tallaght, yeah?

There are lots of Western European teams that wouldn't fill Lansdowne Road. Most of them, in fact.

And filling Lansdowne Road isn't the point of the Europa League.

In two regions, there's a good probability of teams having a rivalry over a number of seasons. Rivalries like that tend to add value to a competition in time when competitions become established.

There's no chance of generating club rivalry by regionalising the Europa League. The clubs are far too transient for that for starters.

Seriously, stop talking about just what you want and try look at the bigger operational picture here.

[legendz]

It's not about agreeing or not agreeing

Ahem, any proposals voted on will have agreement and disagreement.

[pineapple stu]

So as El-Pietro suggested, you have literally no reasons behind your suggestions, and you're basically throwing out the first thing that occurs to you without any sort of rational consideration of it.

Glad that's agreed at least.

[legendz]

So as El-Pietro suggested, you have literally no reasons behind your suggestions, and you're basically throwing out the first thing that occurs to you without any sort of rational consideration of it.

Glad that's agreed at least.

Ahem:

I would like to see league champions having the guarantee of more European games. European experience is beneficial. An advantage of being league champions should be more opportunities in Europe.

[White Horse]

Dundalk have risen almost 100 places in the UEFA rankings; 359 to 266.

http://www.ecaeurope.com/tabbed-content/club-ranking/

[Real ale Madrid]

So as El-Pietro suggested, you have literally no reasons behind your suggestions, and you're basically throwing out the first thing that occurs to you without any sort of rational consideration of it.

Glad that's agreed at least.

FFS reel it in. What is wrong with guaranteed Champs or Europa league for champions of their respective countries, maybe top 35 ranked associations? There was once upon a time that the champions of a league actually meant something in Europe. Lets be honest here the Europa league is a makey uppy competition anyway no more than the so called "champions" league. UEFA make up the rules for entry as they go along anyway with their only regard to make as much money as possible for the top teams, not any so called regard for the health of the sport in the whole of the continent, which by the way, is supposed to be their primary remit. None of Ledgenz' proposals would make the competitions any more disjointed and made up than they are already. I mean UCD qualified last year due to a fair play league??? Whats that about?

[legendz]

It's just something I feel would be fair. Reading about changes to come in, it's disgraceful that there's a lack of balance in return.

When Dundalk went out to BATE last year, if they had entered ELQ3 there's a good chance they might have made the playoffs at least. That would have been positive for the league. In previous years as well there's a good chance the league's champion in a similar situation might have made the playoffs. It would have prolonged the league's interest in Europe.

Countries that have their league champions enter CLQ1 or CLQ2 might see all their European representatives out after one round. In the current structures it's very harsh on those leagues. Some champions knocked out prior to CLQ3 are good enough to make the EL playoffs. I for one think changes should be brought in to give them that opportunity.

While small associations are losing influence in the Champions League, they should be capable of gaining more influence in the Europa League in return.

The Europa League is held in a higher regard in the continent than those influenced by England's contempt for the competition.

The 38 countries that have league champions entering before CLQ3 together represent a sizeable chunk of the European tv audience. On one hand it shouldn't be beyond them to exert some influence for some changes in their favour. On another hand though if they did get together, some divide and conquer approach would probably split them. The signs are that they are inept in influencing change.

Scotland and Ireland however were to the fore in getting the European championship expanded to 24 teams. It would be a positive change to hear noises from the FAI and SFA lobbying for their champions to enter the Europa League qualifiers should they fall at an early CL qualifier hurdle. Sadly these small associations are inept.

[jinxy lilywhite]

Oh legendz please give it a rest.

Yes it's crap how smaller clubs are treated but to be honest its all about the big clubs and the core uefa sponsors who fund it all. If smaller associations kicked up they would be laughed at out the door and then what can they afford no euro money injection into their league.

As far as uefa are concerned the only European audiences are England Spain Germany Italy France and russia. The rest they couldn't give a sh1t about. Besides England with the epl deal with sky those countries need the CL money. England doesn't with the sky deal as I believe the lowest tanked ream revieves what the winners would get of the CL.

[White Horse]

OK. Hands up, who did this?

Last Thursday night, a group of Irish hacks in Alkmaar were accosted by a Dundalk supporter. He marked the end of his special evening by going along the line and asking each person their employer, before adding words of abuse or praise dependent on how that organisation covered the domestic sphere.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-35059104.html

[pineapple stu]

Oh legendz please give it a rest.

Yes it's crap how smaller clubs are treated but to be honest its all about the big clubs and the core uefa sponsors who fund it all. If smaller associations kicked up they would be laughed at out the door and then what can they afford no euro money injection into their league.

This. Once again.

As far as uefa are concerned the only European audiences are England Spain Germany Italy France and russia. The rest they couldn't give a sh1t about.

I'm not sure if I agree with this necessarily. UEFA do a fair bit for the smaller countries in fairness. Look at solidarity income for example. Or even at the fact that Dundalk had the chance to be within a goal of the CL group stages, or that UCD were in the same pool of the same draw as Bilbao last year. The UEFA.com website is excellent; it would have talked that up no end. I think the likes of Belgium, Holland, Ukraine, Denmark, etc, do add to the TV pot when their champions are in the competition - not hugely, but enough that UEFA still want them included.

If the LoI wants to be taken more seriously at European club level though, it'll have to improve itself. Plaintive whines to UEFA that "it isn't fair" are completely worthless.

[pineapple stu]

UEFA make up the rules for entry as they go along anyway with their only regard to make as much money as possible for the top teams, not any so called regard for the health of the sport in the whole of the continent, which by the way, is supposed to be their primary remit. None of Ledgenz' proposals would make the competitions any more disjointed and made up than they are already. I mean UCD qualified last year due to a fair play league??? Whats that about?

As noted, UEFA do a huge amount for the sport across the whole of the continent in fairness. It doesn't have to be even, but the LoI gets a lot out of UEFA.

Legendz' suggestions are typical legendz suggestions, without a trace of having been thought through or argued out. Seriously, why should the group stages be regionalised?

I've always agreed the Fair Play thingy was silly.

[legendz]

Taking counter argument and dismissive posts into account, it's not beyond smaller associations to get league champions knocked out in CLQ1 and CLQ2 entered into the EL qualifiers.