League of Ireland in Europe 2016

[pineapple stu]

Good news. There are still solidarity payments for the league even with Dundalk "only" getting EL. It's only about 10% of what it would have been if they qualified for the CL, but still, better than nothing - approx €381k according to the sun.

Pretty decent considering all the prize money for the league in 2015 amounted to about 380k

http://www.thesun.ie/irishsol/homepa...in-Europe.html

Don't forget clubs already get solidarity income - about E20k per club.

I don't know if First Division clubs or clubs in Europe get it, but if we assume it's only the 8 non-European qualifiers, then that's a current solidarity fund of E150k already. More if FD clubs get a share, etc.

Or is the E381k over and above what they've previously gotten?

[El-Pietro]

Maybe not quite the right forum, but I think it's relevant, Cork City will play in the UEFA Youth League. Having U.19 winners participating at this level should be a good boost the the U.19 league and should help clubs to attract and keep players. It will be very interesting to see how they get on, our underage clubs always seem to manage decent results in friendlies and tournaments so I'm very curious to see how they cope in this competition.
http://www.the42.ie/cork-city-uefa-y...45459-Aug2016/

Great reward for seasons upon seasons of success for our underage set up. The U19s are unbeaten this season and are into the Cup final, which I think is due to be played in Cork.
Under 19 champions in 2011-12, 12-13, 13-14 and 2015. Cup winners in 2012 and 2013.
The under 17s are flying as well, top of their table, knocked out of the cup last week in either the QF or the SF, not sure what round it was.

The next step is to see players stepping up into the first team and having a large impact. We've promoted some youth players in recent years, Rob Lehane, Danny Morrissey, John Kavanagh and Garry Buckley come to mind, but we're not seeing any real stars, Brian Lenihan was the exception but he didn't spend much time in our underage system, Alan Browne was a star underage and went straight to England so we didn't get to see him with the first team.

There are a handful waiting to make the jump now, Conor Ellis and Chedozie Ogbene the two that most people are excited about but Conor McCarthy and Cian Coleman have caugght my eye as well. Cobh Ramblers have another graduate on loan in Cian Donnelon too, I'm not sure about him but hes got potential as well.

Playing against European competition will be a good gauge of where our players are in terms of development.

[brendy_éire]

Great display by Dundalk last night, congrats to Stephen Kenny and all involved.

Sorry to go against the grain and sound a bit Roy Keane-y, but no. No congrats to anyone last night.
Dundalk got a decent draw for this round, but basically ruined the tie at Lansdowne with two dreadful defensive mistakes. Then, in the second leg, ran themselves into the ground by the 70th minute, were horribly wasteful in set-piece play, and failed to take advantage having an extra man for 27 minutes of football after a questionable sending off.

Dundalk's game plan last night involved lots of running and pressure. It was always going to be knackering on the players, and the inevitable exhaustion left them with nothing in the tank for the last 20 minutes. Was this the best strategy, knowing they'd leave themselves very open come the end? The goal, which was lovely, gave Dundalk the opportunity to calm things down somewhat, but they kept the tempo up.
Set-pieces were wasted time and time again. Can't afford to be doing that in the league, never mind in Europe. There was an element of last-ditch, dodgy defending (which they almost got away with), and in addition Legia should have a penalty.
Whenever Dundalk did get a rare chance then, the shots were mostly of a poor quality. Fats' one around the 80th minute stands out as being particularly tame (though he did have a decent game).

It probably says a lot about the league's progression that I feel a 3-1 aggregate loss to the Polish champions is a rubbish result. Maybe Dundalk had to keep a high tempo, maybe I'm being overambitious, and maybe I'm being overly harsh on Dundalk, but I do feel that Legia were beatable, and that Dundalk players and management simply didn't perform as well they could have over the two legs.
It was an exceptional chance to see an Irish team in the CL group stages, and Dundalk weren't up to the task. They're capable of more. No amount of back-slapping or self-pity will make up for the fact that was a huge opportunity missed. I'd dare say Stephen Kenny would agree with me on that.

[nigel-harps1954]

It probably says a lot about the league's progression that I feel a 3-1 aggregate loss to the Polish champions is a rubbish result. Maybe Dundalk had to keep a high tempo, maybe I'm being overambitious, and maybe I'm being overly harsh on Dundalk, but I do feel that Legia were beatable, and that Dundalk players and management simply didn't perform as well they could have over the two legs.
It was an exceptional chance to see an Irish team in the CL group stages, and Dundalk weren't up to the task. They're capable of more. No amount of back-slapping or self-pity will make up for the fact that was a huge opportunity missed. I'd dare say Stephen Kenny would agree with me on that.

I actually agree with this. Dundalk are a far better side than what they have shown over two legs against a side that haven't been in the CL group stage for 20 years despite their dominance of the Polish league. On paper, they should be lightyears ahead of Dundalk, but in reality, I really feel that Dundalk matched them all over the park but lacked killer instinct in the final third, coupled with two rather poor performances by Daryl Horgan, who is capable of so, so much more.

Last night, at 1-0, they had a glorious chance to kick on and put it to bed like they done with BATE, but for whatever reason, they didn't. I'd love to say we'll see this become a regular occurrence now, but I don't think we'll ever see a better chance for an Irish team to get into the CL group stage for a while again.

They've every chance of doing it again though, but they'll need to spend wisely next season to get a chance as good as what they had this season.

[White Horse]

They're capable of more. No amount of back-slapping or self-pity will make up for the fact that was a huge opportunity missed. I'd dare say Stephen Kenny would agree with me on that.

You are right, Kenny has already been quoted as saying it was a missed opportunity. The facts speak for themselves, Dundalk were not good enough to achieve qualification to the group stages of the Champions League. However, just stop for a second to consider that you are talking about the highest level of football, higher than the World Cup.

Dundalk were hampered by a small squad and the inability to change tactics in the second half. They surprised Legia by using a narrow diamond formation in the first half, but Legia reorganised at half time and adapted to this threat. Dundalk needed to have the quality on the bench to try something different with fresher legs. It wasn't there.

This is the challenge they now face if they want to do better in Europe. How to put together a bigger squad, with more options, even though it will be overkill for the domestic league.

[pineapple stu]

Thought Dundalk really missed Kilduff last night, strangely. Davey Mac ran himself into the ground, but got very little change out of the Legia defence. Particularly when Legia were down to ten, Killer for McMillan - or even Killer alongside McMillan - could have made a difference.

Obviously O'Donnell was a minor absentee as well, although his replacement weighed in with a nice goal.

Hadn't quite realised how thin Dundalk's squad really is actually.

[Philosophizer]

Dundalk players and management simply didn't perform as well they could have over the two legs.

They were poor from set pieces all right, i'll give you that, but not the rest of your points.

Yes there were plenty of misplaced passed over the 2 legs, and plenty of mistakes in the away tie against BATE aswell, but that's what happens when you're playing against higher quality. The opposition players move quicker and the ball moves a LOT quicker than what you're used to, so the Dundalk players themselves had less time on the ball and had to think quicker and move sharper than they usually would, the fact that there was only a small difference between them and Legia (who apparently 10 of their starting 11 are full internationals) is testament to how well they played.

They're capable of more. No amount of back-slapping or self-pity will make up for the fact that was a huge opportunity missed. I'd dare say Stephen Kenny would agree with me on that.

Did you not hear Kenny speaking after the match last night? He kept repeating how proud he was that they players performed to such a high level over the 2 legs, and through their whole european run. You're talking as if they played v poorly. Everything is relative. Given the standard they play at, their inexperience at this level, etc, they overperformed in almost every way.

[pineapple stu]

Kenny has come out and said he wants to get through the Europa League group stages.

Tall target - especially if they get a nasty draw - but certainly no harm in aiming for it.

[ger121]

Kenny has come out and said he wants to get through the Europa League group stages.

Tall target - especially if they get a nasty draw - but certainly no harm in aiming for it.

I said it a couple pages back, that he would be targeting getting out of the Group. No harm in having targets. Reaching them is another matter.

The draw will be a big factor but I actually think playing in the Aviva will hurt them. Our teams are used to playing in smaller grounds with tighter pitches. A full Tallaght would suit them much better. I'm guessing what Rovers did in 2011 regarding then Stand is a non-runner?

[Mr A]

Moved the discussion of the 'windfall' for the league from this to the other thread.

[paul_oshea]

Kenny has come out and said he wants to get through the Europa League group stages.

Tall target - especially if they get a nasty draw - but certainly no harm in aiming for it.

But if they had made the CL, and finished 3rd they would have achieved the same anyway. A couple of draws and they might have achieved it!

[sparky12345678]

Nobody has been seeded since Rovers went out in 2012, so that has to be considered as a factor. Whether Dundalk would again should they win the League, really depends on whether they'll be seeded. At the moment based on lowest ranked seeds in QR2 this year, they wouldn't be seeded. Still need a draw minimum but most likely a win to be sure of being seeded, if my calculations are correct.

This is it exactly. Towards the end of the year we are always rooting for lower ranked seeds to get through etc so I was thinking a win plus two draws would bump them up over to the lower end of the seeded teams.

FH Hafnarfjardar Isl 5.750
AS Trencín Svk 5.400
(were seeded)

The New Saints * Wal 5.200
(unseeded)

Currently Dundalk are at 4.640 but Bert hasnt updated last nights.
So the 0.5 would bump it up to 5.1 or how does it work?
Another draw would be nice but a win would make it a bit safer?
And obviously thats not including the modifications to the league co effecient...?

[El-Pietro]

Last nights draw gave Dundalk 0.025 points, same as it gave everyone else. Clubs don't get points for wins/draws in qualifiers, they only get points for progression.

[orielabu]

The combined attendance for the Legia tie was 59,483 made up of 29,066 (Warsaw) and 30,417 (Dublin).
Is that a LOI club record for a two-leg tie?
In 1967 the attendance at Dundalk’s away game against Vasas at the Budapest People’s Stadium was reported as 100,000. However this was a two-match event with the other Budapest team, Ferencvaros, warming up the crowd when defeating their Romanian opponents by 4-0.

[seand]

The combined attendance for the Legia tie was 59,483 made up of 29,066 (Warsaw) and 30,417 (Dublin).
Is that a LOI club record for a two-leg tie?
In 1967 the attendance at Dundalk’s away game against Vasas at the Budapest People’s Stadium was reported as 100,000. However this was a two-match event with the other Budapest team, Ferencvaros, warming up the crowd when defeating their Romanian opponents by 4-0.

Plenty bigger I'd say. Rovers-ManU 56-7 would have been higher, likewise Dundalk-Vasas, as you say, though the away attendance was 'only' about 68,000. Waterford played ManU and Celtic at Lansdowne in the early 70s, each of those would have had big aggregate crowds too you'd think. Celtic-Dundalk 79-80 maybe too. I'm sure there's the odd outlier I'm missing too.... another trip to Eastern Europe in the 60s or 70s perhaps when 70,000 of the local populace would be bored enough to turn up to see Drumcondra or Cork Hibs.

[seand]

. double post

[pineapple stu]

How many did Real or Barca draw when playing LoI sides?

Ararat Yerevan I think got huge crowds; they played Cork back in the 70s.

[Ezeikial]

Kenny has come out and said he wants to get through the Europa League group stages.

Tall target - especially if they get a nasty draw - but certainly no harm in aiming for it.

I would expect nothing less from Stephen Kenny.

It is irrelevant to him that it is a tall target - it is what he wants to achieve, and he will be absolutely certain that it is possible.

He will also demand (and get) the same belief from players, staff and club officials

[Ezeikial]

[TonyD]

They were poor from set pieces all right, i'll give you that, but not the rest of your points.

Yes there were plenty of misplaced passed over the 2 legs, and plenty of mistakes in the away tie against BATE aswell, but that's what happens when you're playing against higher quality. The opposition players move quicker and the ball moves a LOT quicker than what you're used to, so the Dundalk players themselves had less time on the ball and had to think quicker and move sharper than they usually would, the fact that there was only a small difference between them and Legia (who apparently 10 of their starting 11 are full internationals) is testament to how well they played.



Did you not hear Kenny speaking after the match last night? He kept repeating how proud he was that they players performed to such a high level over the 2 legs, and through their whole european run. You're talking as if they played v poorly. Everything is relative. Given the standard they play at, their inexperience at this level, etc, they overperformed in almost every way.

I think I agree with your assessment of it. Nothing wrong with being ambitious and not settling for defeats, but I honestly thought Dundalk did the maximum they could. If they were capable of upping it a gear in the last 20 minutes they would certainly have done so. Don't underestimate the sheer physical effort it took them to compete with Legia, a team who by every yardstick should be streets ahead of Dundalk. If they hadn't worked so hard to close down and chase and harry then they would most probably have got a hammering. Dundalk, or any of our clubs, are not at the level where we capable of beating these teams, but they have shown that we can get closer. What has always struck me has been the difference in physicality between our teams and even teams like Legia, who are a few rungs below the european elite. They are just so much stronger, and quicker too. Dundalk weren't really found wanting technically, but physically they came up short.

(Btw - just a nod to Pats, who got a similar result over there two years ago don't forget. I know the wheels came off at home, but we had a disastrous night in Tallaght losing most of our first choice defence on the night.)