Cork City manager Pat Dolan admits that the club’s substandard training facilities could have contributed to their failure to claim the eircom League title in 2004.
Cork missed out on their first title in 11 years by just three points, and Dolan feels that better facilities could have made the difference between winning the title and finishing as runners-up to Shelbourne.
http://www.eleven-a-side.com/premier...p?newsid=15475
Life without Rovers, it makes no sense...it's a heartache...nothing but a fools game. S.R.F.C.
To be fair, Im sure Dolan cannot say more than 4-5 sentences without sneakily getting the words 'training facilities' and 'lack of' in there.
What he says has merit though. If City have aspirations of glory, a proper, purpose built training facility is essential.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success.
yes,thats true.
wasnt the rebel army buissness drive something to do with the percurement of funds for this purpose?
what is/has happened on that front?
City have won things without a training ground of their own. Surely there is some facility that is good enough for him in the City because a new one isn't going to be built over night.
Dolan needs to stop moaning about all the obstacles he and the team face and get on with his job.
You're right NiamhOriginally Posted by niamh
But there are some decent facilities in Cork. What about the floodlit allweather place that hosts the Nightowls for example?
I dunno though.... I mean most junior clubs would have a place to train at minimum, or be aiming that way at least. It does seem like a bog standard thing to have, being a football club and all. I wouldn’t trivialize it at all, infact enabling the club to give the manager of their football team to give an excuse is what I’d be more worries about.
I am not getting at the club and I do realise the situation but having a training pitch is a bog standard requirement if it is a football club and there is no getting away from that,
The SFAI are the governing body for grassroots football in Ireland, not the FAI. Its success or the lack of is all down to them.
I think its a fair enough comment for Dolan to make. He has made the point ever since coming to cork and it must be a big problem if he is going on about it so much.
It would be a much stronger comment if the excuse 'we might of won if things were different' wasn't included.
Despite that, we’ve been able to have success – the frustrating thing for me is, the training facilities last year, could they have been worth an extra three points? If they could have been, we’d have been champions.
If he had said "we'll we didn't beat Shels last season and that cost us the title, if we had had better training facilities we might of been able to beat them but we didn’t, this is something we are looking into and will be rectifying to ensure Cork City FC has a fair chance next year. It could come down to three points again and next time well be ready"
Soundbite man we know he is and it comes as part and parcel of Pat Dolan. Silly quote to give in my opinion, if we were to use his logic well then Cork could of won it for the last few years only for the training facilities and the rain and the black cat and the ...............
Don't want to hear excuses. We have a press officer to make excuses not a manager.
It's only just begun...............
If the last 21 years were class, here's looking forward to the next 21 years. It is our time
So where do City train lads? Excuse my ignorence but do they genuinely not own ANY training facility? I thought Bishopstown was used for training
Where is Dolan using the training facilities as an excuse for not winning the league?
Read what you have written down.
He asked a rhetorical question: "could better training facilites have been worth 3 points?". Not an excuse, simply musing on how improved facilities MIGHT have changed the title race.
If that question was able to be answered in the affirmative, then we would have won the league.
Please point out where he said "We didn't win the league because we lost an extra 3 points by not having the training facilities".
We took two points off shels last year, that is something he could of done something about in that season. The training facilities we could do nothing about. He claims that if we had the training facilities it could of been worth 3 points to us.
Now this is where I will infuriate some, others I know will agree.
If Pat was the professional manager, (which we do need as a pro team) well then he wouldn't be coming out with such tripe. We know the shortcomings of Cork City.
IF IF IF is all it is,
rhetorical, well why doesn't he go rhetorical on the 'we only took two points of Shels'
We are a pro team, he is meant to be a pro manager, rhetorical doesn't come into it, he doesn't have that comfort. He is judged on his achievements. (I do believe he deserved to keep his job as we did reach second).
If the mini crisis hadn't happened mid season we wouldn't have dropped as many points. That to me is what he should be questioning but hell no we can't question Pat's ability.
Playing for a draw in Dublin on more than one occasion that I would question more?
THe Fenn debate
Corks best 11.
These were his responsibility and he hasn't ever said we came up short here.
How would training facilities improve him as a manager? yes the team would improve but his shortcomings would still be there.
He used that soundbite so he can take any pressure off himself as this is what the fans will hear. He is not as good a manager as is needed by Cork City, we all know that the training facilities aren't there and maybe it did cost us 3 points, some of his tactics cost us more than 3 points so maybe he should of used the knowledge of our disadvantage and played for wins in certain matches instead of the draw.
Cork City did not win the el last year because of shortcomings in the team, we know we are far from the finished article but Pat put your hand up as well.
It's only just begun...............
If the last 21 years were class, here's looking forward to the next 21 years. It is our time
He claimed no such thing.
Again, READ what you posted that he said.
He ASKED a question: "[size=3]could[/size] they have been worth an extra three points?"
He doesn't know, I don't, do you?
Could better training facilities have been worth a few extra points to us?
What has listing out all the things you think Dolan could have done, got to to with your claim that he made training facilities an excuse?
You didn't answer the question, so I'll repeat it: Please point out where he said "We didn't win the league because we lost an extra 3 points by not having the training facilities".
more excuse mongering, just get on with it dolan you've won nothing with cork, and your three years is nearly up!
Ah come Dricky ... its a bit more than that ..... i wont say it is cold fact but no matter what way you look at it, training facilities must/will/a dead cert to make it easier for City ... converting it to points is another seperate step but both are closely related.
There is no harm in Dolan reminding everyone that we dont have the infacstructure. If it getting anyone in gear and motivate them enough to resolve the "problem" (that is was it is, no matter how long it has existed) .... in fact he doesn't remind people enough IMO.
The SFAI are the governing body for grassroots football in Ireland, not the FAI. Its success or the lack of is all down to them.
Read again what he say
Despite that, we’ve been able to have success – the frustrating thing for me is, the training facilities last year, could they have been worth an extra three points? If they could have been, we’d have been champions.
Why does he even bring it up that is what you are missing the point on, Pat is famous for deflecting critisism, ask any StPats fan, they will tell you the same.
That word IF is in his quote
IF IF IF IF IF
Pat Dolins comments were about thing the could of been.
The things that were are the things we had to deal with, he knew at the begining of the el that those trainning facilities weren't there so whats the point in the comment. That is where you have missed my point Patsh, what he came out with was a soundbite, that soundbite is now planted in everyones head, he had all this information and still points it out. We deal in reality he is being rhetorical, instead of dealing with he's poor team selection for some matches as well as poor tactics. They are things we and he knows cost us points. No if's, no buts, no what could of been. THat is what he should be talking about, as at the begining of his contract he had the same information about the training facilities.
His quote is
Despite that, we’ve been able to have success – the frustrating thing for me is, the training facilities last year, could they have been worth an extra three points? If they could have been, we’d have been champions.
What should frustrate him something he knew wasn't available to him???
Or
Only taking 2 points off SHels. Had beaten Shels we wouldn't be talking about this.
Using his formula for the quotes if I say "If those training facilities were not there and we had not lost two of our games to Shels, would we be champions?"
So what is the point to his statement??? Had we played to win, would we have won???? with or without training facilities we would of had a much better chance of winning a match if we were to play to win instead of playing for a draw and losing.
Do you see were I'm coming from??
It's only just begun...............
If the last 21 years were class, here's looking forward to the next 21 years. It is our time
I haven't missed your point. You said Dolan used the lack of training facilites as an excuse for not winning the league.
He has done no such thing.
You can say what you like about what Dolan should have done, but your main point was that you "Don't want to hear excuses". Dolan did not make any excuse.
There would be more strength in him not even saying it, as we already knew it.
Had he delt with the mid season slump better and more like a pro well then the training facillities wouldn't even be brought up.
Now that it is in the press/media that is what will be gone back too, he is not a Pro, maybe in time he will be but it was a comment passed to deflect from himself, there were thing he could of done something about where is his talk about that?????????
It's only just begun...............
If the last 21 years were class, here's looking forward to the next 21 years. It is our time
Apologies for jumping in here...
Surely as manager, Dolan is entitled to point out shortcomings within the club? If he feels the facilities need improving, surely there's no point sitting around and hoping someone will read his mind? He's not using it as an excuse for last season, more ensuring that he won't have to use it as an excuse for next season...
That's the way I see it anyway.
I suppose we should be glad our club aspires to winning the league next season. So many clubs that also once had that aspiration now will be just glad to survive next season.
Don't want to hear excuses
there is another piece on that which makes the point not just half it.
We have a press officer for that
Had he said nothing about the training facilities I would say nothing, these did not lose us points or gain us points they don't exsist so deal with what we do have.
Patsh, "Don't want to hear excuses" is not my main point it is part of a little foot note main points don't normally come at the end of a piece.
Don't want to hear excuses
there is another piece on that which makes the point not just half it.
We have a press officer for that
Had he said nothing about the training facilities I would say nothing, these did not lose us points or gain us points they don't exsist so deal with what we do have.
Patsh, Don't want to hear excuses is not my main point it is part of a little foot note main points don't normally come at the end of a piece.
That is what we pay him for. If he does come out with If and coulds well then he has to look at himself as well. He knew when he signed they weren't available what was available was a team that can play to win go out with the tactic of playing to draw and you risk playing to lose. THat is something that can be dealt with now in the short term that would affect our long term objectives, why doesn't he talk about that, they are not If's or coulds they are what happened.
Again it was a soundbite from Pat, where did he talk about things he can affect as a manager??????????????????
That is what we pay him for. If he does come out with If and coulds well then he has to look at himself as well. He knew when he signed they weren't available what was available was a team that can play to win go out with the tactic of playing to draw and you risk playing to lose. THat is something that can be dealt with now in the short term that would affect our long term objectives, why doesn't he talk about that, they are not If's or coulds they are what happened.
Again it was a soundbite from Pat, where did he talk about things he can affect as a manager??????????????????
What I say is Pat Dolan should be talking about what did happen and what he needs to do to improve, not something he has no control over. He at no stage has mentioned or even highlighted that he could of been the difference between 3 points here and there.
It is a very fair comment for me to make.
It's only just begun...............
If the last 21 years were class, here's looking forward to the next 21 years. It is our time
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