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**deadman** · 12/01/2005, 12:35 PM

have you got yourself a copy of eddie mahon's "history of derry city fc" (think that's the name of it) ... think ya can pick them up from his sports shop in the city centre.
some really brilliant photographs in there, worth a look ... and i'd say it should clarify most of this discussion

**dcfcsteve** · 12/01/2005, 1:01 PM

Originally Posted by deadman

have you got yourself a copy of eddie mahon's "history of derry city fc" (think that's the name of it) ... think ya can pick them up from his sports shop in the city centre.
some really brilliant photographs in there, worth a look ... and i'd say it should clarify most of this discussion

I actually have 2 copies of it Deadman - one back home in Derry for safe-keeping, and one over here with me in London ! It's a great wee book, but is primarily in 'scrapbook' style - lots of photos, sections split into different topics etc, etc - rather than an attempt to be a detailed and definitive history of Derry City through time. I'd have to read it again to be sure, but don't recall it mentioning anything like this and would be surprised if it was the type of think this book would deal with.

Frank Curran's book on the club is the definitive history, though it may be hard to get your hands on a copy these days. It's been years since I read that, so would need to go through it again on the idea of our home crowd being segregated, but again - certainly don't recall that, and I think it's such a bizarre thing that I'd remember it.

Another book by a William Platt covers DCFC through the Irish League years, and is apparently a high-value collectors item (though it always seems to pop up at a normal price in 2nd hand book stores in the city).

**pete** · 12/01/2005, 3:04 PM

Ye should stop looming back to bad days & look forward to possible bright cross-border future.

**MariborKev** · 12/01/2005, 3:29 PM

Pete

If you took the effort to read the thread without jumping in we were hardly looking back old days. A fan of an opposition club made a statement which came as news to many Derry fans, and we tried to find out more about it

**pete** · 12/01/2005, 3:50 PM

Originally Posted by Maribor

If you took the effort to read the thread without jumping in we were hardly looking back old days.

ok you caught me, not read half this thread

**gspain** · 13/01/2005, 7:22 AM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

News to me as well Gary/Maribor/Dortie. My dad was an occassional visitor to the Brandywell in its IL days (he spent a lot of time working outside the City), but he hasn't heard anything like this before and reckons it doesn't sound right.

Didn't ask the question of Gary myself, as my amusement at being lectured on the City myself and the last 5 generations of my family were born and bred in, and the football club I've supported all my life, was starting to wear a wee bit thin.....

I replied to your post to correct a number of inaccuracies and 5 generations of your family living in Derry or not the club left the Irish League in November 1972 not 1974 as you claimed and presumably then it had nothing to do with the collapse of the Sunningdale agreement of 1974.

I also corrected inaccuracies such as Cliftonville were a nationalist club. As I said Cliftonville have always been a non aligned non sectarian club and indeed would not have had any significant nationalist following while Derry were in the IL because it is well documented that cliftonville were a poorly supported gentleman's amateur club until demographics meant the population of north Belfast became mainly nationalist in the 1970's and the locals adopted cliftonville as their local team.

You also claimed that Derry were a nationalist club in the IL days and you seem to have backed away from this now with the claims that plenty of protestants went to games which was my point in the first place. The club were a football club that represented the city and drew significant support from both communities. This I clearly see as a positive.

The segregation issue has clearly touched a chord and that was not my intention. It did happen and I am trying to find out more details and still have a couple of people to talk with. It was actually more security measures to protect Derry fans from the Waterside entering a nationalist area of the city rather than to protect home fans from fighting with each other. Apologies if I gave that impression.

At no stage was I slagging off Derry City FC - either the current club or the club in the IL days. I have the utmost respect for the club and genuinely wish Derry all the best and was delighted when you joined the LoI.

Indeed when I pointed out that the current club has now a 95%+ RC/nationalist support I gave what I believe strongly to be the reasons for this (sunday football and playing the the LoI) and not any sectarian policies as the club has had protestant chairman, directors, managers and players in the LoI days.

**MariborKev** · 13/01/2005, 9:53 AM

Gary

That would be fantastic if you get some more information with regards to the segregation issue as I would be very interesting to learn who wrote about it and more details about it

**dcfcsteve** · 13/01/2005, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by gspain

I replied to your post to correct a number of inaccuracies and 5 generations of your family living in Derry or not the club left the Irish League in November 1972 not 1974 as you claimed and presumably then it had nothing to do with the collapse of the Sunningdale agreement of 1974.

I also corrected inaccuracies such as Cliftonville were a nationalist club. As I said Cliftonville have always been a non aligned non sectarian club and indeed would not have had any significant nationalist following while Derry were in the IL because it is well documented that cliftonville were a poorly supported gentleman's amateur club until demographics meant the population of north Belfast became mainly nationalist in the 1970's and the locals adopted cliftonville as their local team.

You also claimed that Derry were a nationalist club in the IL days and you seem to have backed away from this now with the claims that plenty of protestants went to games which was my point in the first place. The club were a football club that represented the city and drew significant support from both communities. This I clearly see as a positive.

The segregation issue has clearly touched a chord and that was not my intention. It did happen and I am trying to find out more details and still have a couple of people to talk with. It was actually more security measures to protect Derry fans from the Waterside entering a nationalist area of the city rather than to protect home fans from fighting with each other. Apologies if I gave that impression.

At no stage was I slagging off Derry City FC - either the current club or the club in the IL days. I have the utmost respect for the club and genuinely wish Derry all the best and was delighted when you joined the LoI.

Indeed when I pointed out that the current club has now a 95%+ RC/nationalist support I gave what I believe strongly to be the reasons for this (sunday football and playing the the LoI) and not any sectarian policies as the club has had protestant chairman, directors, managers and players in the LoI days.

My last word on this Gary.

I explained the 1974 error previously and apologised for a schoolboy error on my part.

The main issue - as I stated previously, and as you well know, Northern Irish society pre and post troubles was essentially 2 different places. That change happened very very quickly - everything in Northern Ireland post 1969 became an issue of identity. Most things, people and places had to be on one or other side of the divide. If they weren't, and they was any clear 'evidence' that they should be (i.e. majority connection with one or other community) then they got 'placed' on one or other side anyway in the wider social consciousness, whether they like it or not ! This phenomena had only happened pre-Troubles for organisations that were overtly associated with one or other community (e.g. the GAA, Linfield), but it was sadly the way Northern Irish society went from 1969 onwards.

As a result of this, both Derry and Cliftonville were placed on the 'Catholic/Nationalist' side of the divide in post-1969 NI, because of the 'coincidence' of their location/demographics. That doesn't imply anything about the religious composition of the organisations running those teams, or in anyway suggest that Protestants didn't support them/they didn't seek to represent everyone within their communities. It was just indicative of the need to put people, places and things into easy to digest 'boxes' at a time of great inter-community strife. Ever since then, both Derry and Cliftonville have been considered/labelled Catholic/Nationalist, just as clubs like Portadown, Larne, Glentoran, Glenavon, Coleraine, Ballymena etc have been considered/labelled protestant, even though they may well have had/currently have some Catholic fans.

I don't see how the above doesn't make sense or is incorrect, but I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree

**dcfcsteve** · 13/01/2005, 11:46 AM

And Derry withdrew from the IL in Oct 1972 (ominously on Friday 13th !) not November. Who says there's no such thing as an unlucky day....!

**paudie** · 13/01/2005, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Ronnie

On the historical theme, were Belfast Celtic not the biggest club on the island? Were they the Celtic that Irish people supported before they went out of the game, long before people started following Glasgow Celtic? An old timer once told me that Belfast Celtic had the best team in "the British Isles" before the war! Enlightenment would be most welcome.

My knowledge of NI football would be pretty sketchy but I'd say Belfast Celtic and Linfield were the 2 biggest clubs in Ireland before the war, in terms of support and success. I'm not sure if Shamrock Rovers had become as popular at that stage, or if they ever did.

Celtic signed plenty of Irish internationals and had a good stadium.

**Buller** · 13/01/2005, 5:31 PM

Originally Posted by paudie

I'd say Belfast Celtic and Linfield were the 2 biggest clubs in Ireland before the war, in terms of support and success. I'm not sure if Shamrock Rovers had become as popular at that stage, or if they ever did

Whats that ment to mean!? Shamrock Rovers is the most sucessful club this countrys ever had!