I don't want to start a debate on the rights and wrongs of each one but I have always wondered what the main differences are between the Catholic and Protestant faiths i.e. beliefs.
I'm Catholic, my wife is Protestant but she wasn't too sure either.
Anyone enlighten me?
I may be wrong, but i think one of the major differences is the actual whole 'Body of Christ' thing. There's a long word that it can be escribed with, but i think that Catholics belive that they see the bread turn into Christ on the altar, whereas Protestants don't...I think?
Good topic, btw
Transubstationation being one of the main theological differences, (hope this isn't patronising but...) when the preist blesses the host in a Catholic service, the congregation beleve that the body and blood of Christ comes down iinto the host , the protestant faith teaches that this is merely symbolic.
The rest is a mixture of things, as the protestent faith has so many branches there are also diference s between these. For example some branches - the Calvanist and the Free Presbyterian believe that the Catholic Church has to much in the way of pointless symbolism that detracts from worship (smells and bells as I believe they would call it) they also believe that it is somewhat heretical to pray to statues and therefore have few of them in their chapels but on this point they would also object to high church protestantism (Church of England or Ireland for example) that would also have have similar trappings.
These are some of the theological differences but at the end of the day lot of it in Ireland can come down to divide and rule of British imperialism that meant that to keep both sides scared of each other would ensure that part of the population would remain loyal to Britain so lessen the effectiveness of opposition. Of course this almost came unstuck after the Act of Settlement (William of Orange's accession the the English throne) as this discriminated against low church protestants as well as Catholics and this was one of the spurs for the growth of the Unted Irishmen and why they had so many protestants in their leadership.
Where am I now? I'm over here,
I've got those empty pockets and I can't afford a beer.
To build on what Pat O' said - there is no 'protestant' faith. It's an umbrella term for a host of Christian religions that are essentially united by opposition to the rule of Rome in the Christian faiths.
The differences between some of the Protestant religions are as broad, if not more so, than the differences some of them have with Catholicism. For example - High Anglicanism is incredibly close to the Catholic church. I think the key differences revolve around Confession and transubstantiation (Catholics believe the bread and wine literally does change into body and blood at the priests's hands, Anglicans believe it is merely symbolic of that change). The ecumenical movement is a joint organisation between Catholicism and High Anglicanism to continually explore common ground, and arguably to look at whether the 2 churches could re-join at some point in the future. The advent of women priests in Anglicanism has knackered this to some extent though, as Rome is very opposed to it.
The key difference between all Protestant faiths and Catholicism is that they refuse to accept that the Pope is God's appointed representative on earth. Some sects (e.g. Paisley's Free Presbyterians) believe that the Pope is actually the anti-Christ (in a literal meaning - not in the meaning of The Omen films etc - i.e. that the Pope is essentially claiming the same role that Jesus did when he came). Most Protestant faiths are as a result much more democratic and less hierarchical than Catholicism is (indeed most other major world religions are as well...) - they have no single spiritual head of the church who's word is law in their faith. Presbyterians, Methodists etc are structurally very democractic - with decisions made at annual Synods (essentially AGM's).
Another key difference is Confession. Protestant faiths believe that confession is a personal thing, and doesn't need to be done via a priest in order to secure foregiveness.
I also believe that reference of the Virgin Mary is a particularly Catholic trait - protestant faiths value her as important, but don't put her up on a perch alongside Jesus and God as the Catholic Church does. This may reflect the fact that a number of Protestant faiths are very scriptually-based - i.e. women have a less important role within their churches, as the bible is from a time when 'men were men'.
Finally, there's a stereotype about 'the Protestant work ethic' that has a large grain of truth in it. A number of Protestant religions (again, the more scriptural-based likes of Presbyterianism, Calvinism and Methodism) believe that you are judged entirely on whatever you do on this earth. Therefore, it is your god-given duty to work as hard as you can, to be frugal etc etc, and to live a clean-living, hard-working, Christian life. The onus for this is based upon the individual. Catholicism engenders a less individualistic and more 'communal' ethos amongst it's followers.
There are so many splinter faiths within Protestantism that it's difficult to generalise, but those are to the best of my knowledge the key differences with Roman Catholicism (as an aside, my girlfriend in Derry went to school with a girl from a Protestant faith were they weren't even allowed to eat in front of other people ! I believe the faith was called 'Brethren'. Apologies if not - especially to anyone reading this who may be offended).
But - as I'm only an aul' tadgh, it's probably best left to someone with a first-hand knowledge of the religion for a definitive answer !
Apologies to any Protestant readers for any inaccuracies above.
What about the hooved feet?
I thought that was just Donegal wimmin....?Originally Posted by corkharps
What about the hooved feet?
I thought that was just Donegal wimmin....?
protestants call it consubstantiation. ludicrous to think youre eating the flesh of a 2000 year old dead man.its just very plain sandwich really.
dont make pictures or statues of your god is a commandment.though catholicism does this anyway.regardless of whether you believe in a god or not,organized religions are all stupid anyway
i would venture to argue that most people here who call themselves Catholic would feel more at home belief wise in the COI than actually in the Roman Catholic Church.
Dcfcsteve gave an excellent rundown really.
Because Anglicanism is not in the main theoritically opposed to reunion in the future with the RC church they are strictly speaking a Catholic church as well.
They believe in one Holy and Catholic Apostolic church.
Most Protestants in NI are Presbyterian while in the South they are COI and there is huge differences between the two faiths.
Maybe some posters here should go along to a service in their local COI church, who knows you may convert! Plus, you get free tea and biscuits after service.
have to agree with you there
I suggest closing this topic. Religion is a personal thing and is very close to the nerve with some people.
I think we're still on Ok ground here, as all we're talking about here is history, not whether or not religion is a 'good thing' or not. And before anyone kicks off with the "All religion is rubbish" tirade, can I perhaps politely ask they open a seperate thread to this one? Thanks.
The real split in Christianity happened not with the Catholic and Protestant thing, but long before, in the schism between East and West, when half the church became Catholic and half became Orthodox (both words meaning the same thing). There were many reasons for the split, some to do with theology, others to do with political issues regarding the relationship between Christendom and Islam and the power balances of the Middle East. Pre-schism the church was governed by senior bishops based in Constantinople, Rome, Antioch, Jerusalem and so on. The bishop of Rome, so the Orthodox say, was merely one bishop of many, with ideas far above his station.
The Roman Catholic church then suffered a further series of splits. In the British Isles the most significant being the breakaway from the authority of Rome, replacing it with the governorship of the monarch. Henry the 8th, despite being credited for forming the Church of England, was actually very catholic in his outlook, and would have been fairly outraged at the way that he Church of England became seen as a protestant church. He wanted the church frree from Rome and under his thumb, but he still wanted it to be Catholic in its theology. There were protestant thinking leaders within the English church who steered it down that path- indeed many parts of Anglicanism are very very Catholic, with statues of Mary, rosaries, the whole thing, whilst other parts are very very protestant. From this, more and more groups split off and broke away giving us Baptists, Methodists, United Reforemed and so on and so forth, each with their own take on things.
What's intersting is that the Orthodox church regards every Chsritian who is not Orthodox as being Catholic. Indeed, churches who broke away from Rome are seen as being still Catholic by them. Roman Catholics? Catholic. Church of England? Catholic. Baptists? Catholic. Prebyterian? Catholic.
Tea. Corduroy. Space Travel.
I dunno Harry -provided people don't go out of their way to offend each other I think it's good to have people explore and discuss faith positions -be they their own or other peoples. I'm facinated by religion and the archaeology of it -though i must admit I'm a confirmed atheist (raised RC mind).
I like the way Bob Geldof summed it (God/Religion/creationism) up best
"You Know ...when you sit back and think about it ...it's all very improbable"
I also like the words of the man (who's identity avoids me -Kavanagh? Wilde?) who wrote "you must respect the other fellows religion -but only so far as you respect his belief that his wife is beautiful and his children clever"
Just on one major christian division -I'm led to believe one of the major differences that divides a large number of bible protestant faiths (ie those protestant faiths who base their entire belief on the bible/"word"/"gospel") and their Catholic/orhodox/High Anglican counterparts, is a belief on the formers side that "man is saved by faith alone" against the latters belief that other things such as good works, charity whatever can count towards being saved as well (from which we got the highly corrupt middle age practice of buying "indulgences" -a practice which still casts a shadow today).
However, apparently Luther took a bit of an editorial leap when translating his bible into German. Seeminly he simplified it to read "man is saved by faith alone" when it should've read "man is saved by faith above all other things".
That's a hell of a difference. Yeah sure faith is most important -but the text that Luther translated from states that there are "other things" that while being less important are worthy of an auld mention.
" I wish to God that someone would be able to block out the voices in my head for five minutes, the voices that scream, over and over again: "Why do they come to me to die?"
Isn't one of the main differences is that at it's most basic level, most Protestant groupings are, in a way, "made up"? I mean in the respect that you take a particular version of the Bible that you believe in. You then say that your life must be lived by what you interpret that version to be saying. The likes of Paisley, even though an extreme example, and quite a few preachers in America, can set up a whole sect based on their own opinions. Didn't Jello Biafra, of The Dead Kennedys, set up a church, which came within Protestantism, so he could be exempt from any military service?
Catholicism and Islam have different sects within them, but the basic belief and structure is the same, i.e. you can go to a mosque or church anywhere in the world and the priest/mullah will follow the same ceremony and teaching. In most Protestant services, the main "event" is the sermon, which will depend almost entirely on the personality and beliefs of the preacher/priest.
belief in the infallibility of the pope and the virgin birth are 2 of the main differences afaik
Last edited by the 12 th man; 04/01/2005 at 10:10 AM.
Yes and no - there's quite a few differences between an Irish RC mass and an English RC Mass, and a lot in the whole sitting/standing/kneeling bits, and especially stuff like the wedding mass.
Also in England, the whole coming in late, standing at the back having a chat and doing one at communion wouldn't be accepted at all, as seems to be the case here...
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
Err No.
?
I think you're right about the potential pitfalls of personality-driven churches, Patsh. The focus in many protestant churches, especilly 'Low' churches, is the focus on the Word of God. A reading from the bible which will then be examined and expanded upon in the sermon. Of course, the personality, politics and prejudices of the preacher come into play, and it's up to the congregation to then try and pick out those bits come from God and which are purely from the preacher-just as the bible tells us we should do.
I think that differences between Sunni, Shia and Suffi Islam are at least as diversive and profound as those between Strict Presbyterian, Roman Catholic and happy clappy churches. Yes, they're all Moslem in the same way as we're all Christians. Well, except for the atheists of course..
Tea. Corduroy. Space Travel.
Patsh - there's plenty of differences within other faiths as well - e.g. in Islam, Ismaili's are vastly different from the more 'orthodox' Sunnis, or the philosophical theology of Suffiism. And if you think that all Imans in mosques follow centrally-defined teachings, you should listen to some of the more controversial clerics ! There are vast differences within sects of Judaism as well - particularly between orthodox and moderate groups. A number of Orthodox sects even openly support the Palestinians, as they believe that the expulsion of Jews from Israel was God's will, and that to reverse it is therefore wrong.
The key thing that has stopped Catholicism splintering into lots of different sub-sects is the fact that it is a hierarchical organisation with a clear centralist structure and a single leader. If you want to set-up your own Catholic sect (a la Pat Buckley and Sinead O'Connor) you can only do it by breaking-away/being kicked-out of the Roman Catholic church. In this way, you effectively cease being a Catholic organisation. However - as Protestant churches are generally non-hierarchical, less centralist and more democractic in structure, you can set-up a sub-sect without any one single person/source being in a position of authority to kick you out of 'protestantism' and stand in your way. There is no leader of the protestant faith to tell you you're wrong and to 'unrecognise' you.
It's always going to be very difficult to maintain a rigidly standard way of conducting something as emotional, contentious and personal as a single religion over centuries, across cultures/continents, languages/peoples, political systems etc etc without there being a 'referee' of some sort in the middle to define what can and can't be done as part of that single religion. That's primarily why Catholicism is fairly cohesive, versus protestantism in particular and other faiths in general.
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