A question of Religion

[crc]

Eanna - times have changed since the Church effectively ran the country, and we'll probably never go back to that situation. To ban this program would be a form of discrimination against those people who derive some benefit from it (on whatever level), and they are numerous.

If you look at it objectively, religion makes no less sense than 22 guys kicking an inflated bladder around simply for their own enjoyment.

[crc]

All i'll say is theres no way Mary was a Virgin!

Looked at from a different perspective, would Joseph have hung around raisng this kid (who wasn't his), if he wasn't getting any?

[Pablo]

Looked at from a different perspective, would Joseph have hung around raisng this kid (who wasn't his), if he wasn't getting any?

and she loved it too

[Éanna]

Eanna - times have changed since the Church effectively ran the country, and we'll probably never go back to that situation.

agreed. I certainly hope not.

To ban this program would be a form of discrimination against those people who derive some benefit from it (on whatever level), and they are numerous.

I don't agree at all. And I would have no problem with the showing of religious broadcasting if all faiths were represented. The RC church is the biggest and will therefore get the most coverage, thats fair enough. But just in the sphere of broadcasting alone, RTE as a national broadcaster should be doing more to educate people on other religions/faiths which are in this country- just as an example, when its Ramadan, could RTE news or Primetime do a feature on the Muslim Community in Ireland.

If you look at it objectively, religion makes no less sense than 22 guys kicking an inflated bladder around simply for their own enjoyment.

again, I agree 100%. But the difference is that people who watch football don't go around telling other people that their soul depends on them going to football matches and so on- I watch football, and I discuss it with other people who do. If someone's not interested, I don't judge them because of it. There's still a massive stigma attached to being a "non-believer"

[Pat O' Banton]

All i'll say is theres no way Mary was a Virgin!

Ah my little outragous amigo, I don't think anyone disputes this, afterall the bible does state that Jesus had siblings, the 'Virgin Mary' refers to the birth of Jesus.

[Pablo]

Ah my little outragous amigo, I don't think anyone disputes this, afterall the bible does state that Jesus had siblings, the 'Virgin Mary' refers to the birth of Jesus.

Does it? very interesting indeed. still, immaculate conception? give me a break!

[crc]

I don't agree at all. And I would have no problem with the showing of religious broadcasting if all faiths were represented. The RC church is the biggest and will therefore get the most coverage, thats fair enough. But just in the sphere of broadcasting alone, RTE as a national broadcaster should be doing more to educate people on other religions/faiths which are in this country- just as an example, when its Ramadan, could RTE news or Primetime do a feature on the Muslim Community in Ireland.

I have no idea whether RTE do stuff on Muslims in Ireland, but I do remember seeing a good show about the Jewish Commuity here. However, I would encourage RTE to broadcast these sorts of programs, but regardless of this it is not a good argument to use to stop broadcastin the angelus.

[exile]

islam is the fastest growing religion in this country

[Pablo]

If religion is so great why do so many people die and get persecuted because of it? and in the name of other religions.......

and if god exists he obviously had a bad holiday in SE Asia once

[exile]

and how many people honestly belive they go to heaven or hell i say keep god out of ireland

[Closed Account 2]

IBut just in the sphere of broadcasting alone, RTE as a national broadcaster should be doing more to educate people on other religions/faiths which are in this country- just as an example, when its Ramadan, could RTE news or Primetime do a feature on the Muslim Community in Ireland.

I agree, balanced, informative programs on previously ignored themes (not just religion but all sorts of things) would be good. Your choice of Ramadan is interesting, as I’m sure your well aware its the duty of every Muslim to perform the Hadj at least once in their lifetime (if they can afford it and are physically capable). This (the pilgrimage to Mecca and then walk to Medina) is seen as one of the key facets of Islam for Muslims. A few other European Media stations often cover the Hadj using reporters from their countries. For instance the BBC use Raghi (sp?) Omar (a British Muslim TV Journalist), who reported on British people doing the Hadj live from Mecca. However, to be fair to RTE it could be difficult for them to do a similar program, aside from the cost of flying out there there is one other problem. Non-Muslims are not allowed into either Mecca or Medina as they are very holy cities in Islamic thought (see here for more explanations of this law). They could probably hire a local news crew to film etc, but I feel to appeal to Irish citizens ideally they would need an Irish Muslim TV Journalist (an Irish Raghi Omar for want of a better phrase), so I guess RTE will just have to wait a few years until they have such a figure. As exile points out a few posts above, Islam is the most rapidly growing religion in Ireland, so I'm sure its only a few years before RTE are able to do it.

[finlma]

.... the angelus are symbolic of the intrusive nature of the RC church in this country

I agree. The angelus have no place on public tv in a modern society. Ireland is becoming a more cosmopolitan society with different religions on the increase. It is wrong that one religion is promoted on tv with a few stupid gongs every day.

The RC church in Ireland still has too strong an input. A close friend of mine and his family had to lie to get him into school cause he was not Catholic. He's Buddhist and 100% Irish but there was no school for him.

[Éanna]

I have no idea whether RTE do stuff on Muslims in Ireland, but I do remember seeing a good show about the Jewish Commuity here. However, I would encourage RTE to broadcast these sorts of programs, but regardless of this it is not a good argument to use to stop broadcastin the angelus.

why could there not be a minutes silence instead of the angelus- that would allow people of all faiths (or none) to contemplate/think/ignore it as they pleased- instead of being specific to any religion.

[exile]

for all of you out there who are sick of your normal everyday religions try this

here

[liam88]

i would venture to argue that most people here who call themselves Catholic would feel more at home belief wise in the COI than actually in the Roman Catholic Church.

Don't have time to read all pages but I don't think this is right; Catholics know what we believe.
I am a dedicated Catholic-alter serving every Sunday. I wear ma Roseary and I prey-I think the most important things is to live a good Christian life. The differences betwen Catholicism and Anglicanism although significant must be accepted as just that-different ways to worship the same God. I have catholic friends, Protestant friends and Atheist friends-the local Protestant church lets us use it for Sunday morning mass as there isn't a Catholic church in our villiage.

[liam88]

religion has caused the deaths of more people through out the years that any other event or war

WWI
WWII
Gulf War I
gulf War II
Vietnam
Falklands
Boer War
Northern Ireland conflict (religion was dragged into it)
Korea War
Serbian-Kosovo
Iraq-Iran

Religion was not the root of any of these!

[Éanna]

Religion was not the root of any of these!

it has played a part in some of them, but hey, we can all be selective about which facts we choose- the fact is, overall in terms of conflict in the world, religion plays a huge part.

WWI: no
WWII: Hitler's persecution of the Jews, certainly a part of the war. the support of the Catholic Church (or senior elements within) for Hitler and Mussolini
Gulf War I: no
gulf War II: Yes. Bush's insane right-wing evangelical beliefs have certainly played a part in his decision making, and much of his loyal support base is convinced that Islam is evil
Vietnam: no
Falklands: no
Boer War: probably not
Northern Ireland conflict (religion was dragged into it): total cráp. It is as much a part of it as anything else.
Korea War: no
Serbian-Kosovo: yes.
Iraq-Iran: different factions within Islam were involved AFAIK.


I can make a list too:
Yugoslavian civil war.
Northern Ireland.
Israel-Palestine.
India- Pakistan.
etc etc

[Éanna]

The simple fact of the matter is that both sides in this debate are right- religion itself has rarely been the actual cause of conflict, but it has been used to cause/continue/widen conflicts all over the world. In reality the basic tenents of all religions are the same- love your neighbour, be a good person, believe in a higher being. Every single thing beyond and above that is man-made: and once man gets involved, so does human nature and that means trouble. Hence me saying that it should be illegal outside of the home!

[liam88]

WWI: no
WWII: Hitler's persecution of the Jews, certainly a part of the war. the support of the Catholic Church (or senior elements within) for Hitler and Mussolini
Gulf War I: no
gulf War II: Yes. Bush's insane right-wing evangelical beliefs have certainly played a part in his decision making, and much of his loyal support base is convinced that Islam is evil
Vietnam: no
Falklands: no
Boer War: probably not
Northern Ireland conflict (religion was dragged into it): total cráp. It is as much a part of it as anything else.
Korea War: no
Serbian-Kosovo: yes.
Iraq-Iran: different factions within Islam were involved AFAIK.


I can make a list too:
Yugoslavian civil war.
Northern Ireland.
Israel-Palestine.
India- Pakistan.
etc etc

Blaming Catholics for WWI is below the belt, many on here would argue Bush is fighting for oil, defence or revenge, not Christianity, Israel/Palestine is a lot do do with territory isn't it? You're right though; religion does (unfortunatley) get dragged into these terrotorial issues....whcih sucks because it defies the point of religion-still; no reason to put it down!
Look at all the good religion has done for the world!
Christian aid, people finding help, Lourdes etc.

[Éanna]

Blaming Catholics for WWI is below the belt

I didn't!!! I don't blame Catholics (as a whole group of people) for anything.

many on here would argue Bush is fighting for oil, defence or revenge, not Christianity,

I didn't say he was fighting for Christianity, I said it was what motivated his actions, and the source of much of his support. He's said that himself.

Israel/Palestine is a lot do do with territory isn't it?

yes. israel claims rights to the land they stole from the Palestinians because they are "god's people"

Look at all the good religion has done for the world!
Christian aid, people finding help, Lourdes etc.

I would argue that that is the goodness of human nature, rather than any religion. As for Lourdes- what about it?

I firmly believe that the vast majority of religious people are good, well-meaning people. The problem is that in religions (especially the RC Church) the people who get to the top are the scheming, political people motivated by greed and by themselves. And they use their positions to impose their beliefs on others. Look at the current Pope's crusade against homosexuality, and the use of condoms- that man is probably responsible for more deaths in the world than the Communism he fought against for years, because of his idiotic beliefs. He's the head of a supposedly well-intentioned organisation and he's downright evil.