QuoteWell said. Religion is the cause of the majority of wars and hatred in this world.Originally Posted by exile
Nawww it hasnt really. Its just been a handy excuse. If it wasnt for religion they'd find other things to fight about. Hair colour, sink colour, nationality, ethnic background, football teams supported
Oh no not them again
Well said. Religion is the cause of the majority of wars and hatred in this world.
just got to look at some of those lunatic muslim factions their sole aim is for the world to be ruled according to their take on the koran
save the sheep shaggers bring back beheadings for waherford
and why shouldn't they? Sure whoever wrote it originally was doing the same thing.
IMO religion should be illegal outside of your own home. Its a load of claptrap which has caused the world no end of hassle. If people want to believe in a higher being they can do it on their own time and in the privacy of their own home. and quit bugging me about it
Not being pedantic, but the problem here isn't with religion - it's with people. To blame religion is to be overly simplistic about the sources of human conflict.
Plenty of people around the world live and worship peacefully side-by-side with people of other religions without any problems. Unfortunately a minority within certain regions seem unable to do so. But the sole source of those conflicts isn't religion- it's usually one or more of a set of cultural issues/differences (ethnic origin, language, tradition, history etc, as well as religion). The key problem seems to be when these differences lead to intolerance of another group(s) in close proximity, and/or a desire to be self-governing (which again is usually the consequences of actual or perceived inequality sprung from intolerance).
Take Northern Ireland. Catholics and Protestants throughout the rest of the world exist in peaceful co-existence. Stick them together in Belfast and they don't. Why ? Competing cultural identities and conflicting demands upon the same geographical space. Not religion (Catholics and Protestants over the border in places like Donegal, Dublin and Cork manage to co-exist peacefully).
The problem in the south of Thailand that has flared-up recently with separatist rebels (the one where 75 Muslim protestors suffocated to death in the back of a Thai military truck) -that's been made-out in the media to be a Muslim versus Buddhist thing. It's not - it's a disparate cultural group looking to establish an independent self-governing state for the Muslim-dominated south of the country. It just happens that, like Norn Iron, the 2 different cultural groups are easily defined along religious lines.
Hitler selected the majority of the targets for his concentration camps purely on the basis of their belonging to a certain religion. Does that therefore mean that his actions were religiously motivated ? Was the source of responsibility for the Holocaust really religion ?
As someone else stated, if it wasn't religion that some people were fighting about it'd be something else instead - as a result of intolerance of those who are different.
Absolute tosh! Let's see who were the biggest killers of the 20C. Hitler (didn't believe in God), Stalin (didn't believe in God) and, Mao (who, erm, didn't believe in God).
Don't mean to be rude but, to put it succinctly, what are you doing here? The thread states it's about religion. It's not like you're Mary Whitehouse who's stumbled into a website by the title 'Gay Cottaging.com' thinking its about a load of happy ruralites doing up their homes. For someone who doesn't like to be 'bugged' about religion, you've gone out of your way to be hassled by it.
This is the cooooooooooooolest footy forum I've ever seen!
i did actualy say through the years but should have said throughout the centuries more people have been killed by the excuse of religion thats a fact. although dcfc steve said it is a bit simplistic and i agree and hitler did belive religion all be it mysticism.
absolute tosh
save the sheep shaggers bring back beheadings for waherford
Think you're wrong on old Adolf. While he may not have been a practicing RC -he was raised one and boasts in Mein Kampf I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews. I am doing the Lord's work.the biggest killers of the 20C. Hitler (didn't believe in God),
Now he might have taken the same a la carte approach to his faith that many RCs seem to do -but he was no atheist.
For the role of women in his new germany he also advocated the "three K's" Kinder, Kischten, Kerchen (sorry about the appalling spelling -didn't do german -but wrote about this along time ago for a dissertation) -Children, Kitchen, Church.
" I wish to God that someone would be able to block out the voices in my head for five minutes, the voices that scream, over and over again: "Why do they come to me to die?"
How many people were killed in WW2. 50 million perhaps? How many killed in various proxy wars between communism and capitalism? Even NI can not be counted as a religious conflict. Not when the father figure of republicanism was a secular protestant. The nearest biggest number killed in a war over religion is 3-4 million during the 30 years war of the 17C and other loosely associated battles (from the inquisition to the Boyne and Aughrim). Every significant war since (Napoleanic, American Civil War, Crimea, Franco-Prussian, Boer, WW1,2, Vietnam, etc.) had nothing to do with religion. A convenient scapegoat to hide the harm that nationalism causes.i did actualy say through the years but should have said throughout the centuries more people have been killed by the excuse of religion thats a fact. although dcfc steve said it is a bit simplistic and i agree and hitler did belive religion all be it mysticism.
absolute tosh
This is the cooooooooooooolest footy forum I've ever seen!
The only bits of Meing Kampf I 've read were from reading Ian Kershaw's biography and the general impression given throughout is of a person who believes Chrisitianity as nothing more than a Jewish cult. He kept going on about providence (whatever that is, but does suggest a belief in a higher being), but God, in a religious sense? I can't believe he was that struck on him. Mein Kampf was written in 1923 (perhaps). His sidekick to the last, Martin Bormann, was a fanatical anti-religious headcase (who's son ironically became a priest) that I wouldn't have thought reached his position if Hitler was as religious as you suggest (certainly being brought up an RC counts as nothing).
It is of course important to remember that nazism and communism were philosophies in their own right and shared numerous things similar to religions, particularly organised ones. However the death and destruction that is suggested as being brought about solely by religion derives not from the religion itself and is equally evident within other areas, in particular, nationalism.
Last edited by lopez; 05/01/2005 at 10:46 AM.
This is the cooooooooooooolest footy forum I've ever seen!
Well, to put it in perspective, the 1918 flu epidemic killed more people than the Black Death, yet alone any war in the last century.
Surely the biggest killer in recent times has been poverty, when looked at on a global scale.
Obscene numbers of people are dying in the developing world through utterly preventable diseases. They are poor, in part, because of the (secular) government policies of the rich western world. I don't think that Christian Aid, Cafod, Save the Children, Tear Fund, or any other bunch of (religious based) people raising money to buy rice, medicine, pastic sheets and water for the poor souls are really to blame for their suffering. It's far too trite to say religion is a cause of war. The Moslems who drive ambulances into war zones for the Red Crescent are no more warmongers than their Red Cross counterparts.
Tea. Corduroy. Space Travel.
I've no problem discussing it, I just get fed up of the bible-bashing types who push their religion in peoples faces thats all.
Well the Mormon or JW on the door is probably more sincere (helping your salvation or whatever) in what he's 'selling' (Mormons like 7 day wonders take a percentage of your money. JWs rely on contributions and sales of their publishing wing) than the double glazing tw*ts that bang on peoples' doors. As for anyone else, who's shoving it in your face? No one here is. In fact the shoving is from people who rubbish people's beliefs while claiming (wrongly) that religion is responsible for most non-'nature related' deaths ever. I mean you'd have something to complain if someone went on the Israel thread and declared that the land there is Jewish 'cos God says so.'
This is the cooooooooooooolest footy forum I've ever seen!
who's shoving it in my face? Just look at the education system in this country- full of it. the angelus on tv at 6 o'clock etc., It really bugs me. I totally respect people's right to their beliefs, and I have no problem with people believing in a higher being, but I just don't think it should be done in public. And religion is a factor in almost every conflict on the planet- even if it is only being used as an excuse.
I won't run down the good, selfless work that religious based charities of every hue do in the developing (and indeed developed) world. But it is an absolute fact that the Pope for example -has used his power and position to oppose and organise opposition to every reasonable step towards the most basic family planning provisions in many developing countries. And i'm not talking about abortion here -I'm talking about condoms, pills etc...
Possibly worse -he and the likes of "Mother" teresa have gone to these places and urged uneducated young people who can scarcely feed themselves to "breed for the church" as Europe has become godless.
The man has consistently been part of the problem rather than the solution in the developing world -and before someone comes back with "what about him putting on Bonos glasses and looking for third world debt to be wiped out?"
-I'll just say It's a pretty easy thing to ask someone else to take a hit for the greater good. he'd be more in his line to drag some of his own teachings out of the 19th century by way of example to those whom he'd like to see give up on flogging a dead horse.
" I wish to God that someone would be able to block out the voices in my head for five minutes, the voices that scream, over and over again: "Why do they come to me to die?"
I remember reading in some Natural History book (Nightmares of Nature or something) that, across History, the mosquito is responsible for more deaths than all wars put together. I’m not sure how true the book was, but I hazard a guess it could well be the case. Worryingly Malaria is said to be spreading back to places it was long eradicated from (e.g. Balkan Coast, Southern Italy, Central America). Diseases spread by fast breeding bacteria or virii are deadly and very infectious.
I really don't understand why it bugs you. No one forces you to watch the angelus. It may not be your thing, but it is valued by a significant portion of the population, probably more than would be interested in an eL match on TV. You are free not to watch the whole 60 seconds given over to this dispicable broadcast.
I do chose not to watch it. religion has its place and I think things like the angelus are symbolic of the intrusive nature of the RC church in this country
All i'll say is theres no way Mary was a Virgin!
yeh mean cameron diaz ?
Last edited by the 12 th man; 05/01/2005 at 4:00 PM.
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