this is the type of attitude we are up against

**max power** · 30/12/2004, 3:55 AM

see here

**Ringo** · 30/12/2004, 6:13 AM

link is dead, what was it about?

**max power** · 30/12/2004, 1:43 PM

try this

**4tothefloor** · 30/12/2004, 7:10 PM

Didn't see too much wrong with what 'Iano' said there. It's all about standards, and that includes everything from the quality of football to the quality of the ground and comfort while watching in the stadium. The EL has it's plus points, and following your local team every week is a big one, but it also has it's negative points. From my own experience with Limerick, I can see where Iano is coming from.

For example, freezing your arse off in a ground that hasn't even got seating, while watching poor football against opposition who don't even have any fans at the game, is quite common. No atmosphere. It doesn't put me off, but I can see how it does not appeal to a lot of people. The EL has made good strides, but is still light years behind everyone else. Shamrock Rovers showed good ambition a few years back to build a proper stadium, but look where it got them? This is supposed to be one of the biggest clubs in Ireland, yet they can't get the stadium even half finished. It looks like the County Council is going to have to bail them out. Compare that to the small clubs in Division 2\3 in England who have successfully built new stadiums and it's sad really.

The bottom line is that it's up to the clubs themselves to invest in their future and up the standards. Build proper stands, get proper infrastructure in place i.e. bars, resturaunts, shops, etc. If they do this, they would have clubs that fans would be proud to follow. That's what the club licensing is all about, to drag Leagues like the EL into the 21st century. Yet, clubs had to be pushed and pressurised into improvements - how many got a premier license for example? That's why Iano is right in saying stop trying to ram the EL down peoples throats - if the EL clubs get their act together and stop fannying about, and implement all of the above, then maybe you can start preaching to the bar-stoolers. But as it stands now? Forget about it! I'm an EL fan, but i'll still admit that it's poor fare compared to foreign football.

**CuanaD** · 31/12/2004, 10:59 AM

Problem is that firstly Iano says: "Why would anybody want to watch a standard of football that dosent appeal to them Mark. I wouldnt listen to a certain type of music just because somebody says its good .
Its down to personal taste."

How can you know that some thing is not to your personal taste if you refuse to try it?
If someone recommends a band or a book 2 me I will listen to a few songs or read some & form MY OWN opinion - but I won't just ignore them or tell them they are wrong out of hand. I've seen premiership games - I'm not pushed by them, same goes for the Scottish & Italian leagues - I dont like the styles of football or the atmospheres created (but at least i have taken the time to form my own opinion from facts & not hearsay). I (almost) always enjoy watching eL games, while Spanish & German also seem exciting to me. Other than that I dont know enough to have an opinion, so I refuse to slag off other leagues.

So what I would say to Iano is - you are just using other peoples opinions; the only way to have a personal taste is to taste it for yourself - take in half a dozen games over time & then form your own opinion.

**max power** · 31/12/2004, 11:34 AM

[QUOTE=Conor74]Is it not a little unnerving the way he says 'Mark' in every second sentence? I'm sure a psychologist could read something into it.
QUOTE]

yeah i noticed that, but its his way of talking down to people.

**crc** · 31/12/2004, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

That's what the club licensing is all about, to drag Leagues like the EL into the 21st century.

More like to drag EL into the 20th century!!

I agree that quality alone isn't the main reason people follow English soccer. IMO a lot more of it has to do with hype. People in Ireland are surrounded by Engglish football in the media. Most barstoolers (well actually, it normally starts when they are kids, so high-chairers??

) are lured into the large 'community' that follows English soccer. They yearn to be part of it, to 'belong' to the largest football community in Ireland (unfortunately). In England, those who live near even a moderately big club, choose that club. In Ireland, people adopt some one of the big clubs; Liverpool, Leeds, Spurs used to be popular ones int he 70s and 80s, but now Man U and Arsenal dominate. The clubs (wanting to earn a few bob), don't turn them away, even though there is no normal reason for these people to support this club.

In countries to which the EL might aspire, such as Scotland, Belgium or Sweden, the general public has a far higher ambient awareness of their own league. Foreign leagues aren't eliminated, but the general man in the street (and his mother) would have known, for example, that Longford and Waterford were in the cup final.

My basic arguement is that the EL needs a much greater visible presence, more hype.

**4tothefloor** · 31/12/2004, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by CuanaD

So what I would say to Iano is - you are just using other peoples opinions; the only way to have a personal taste is to taste it for yourself - take in half a dozen games over time & then form your own opinion.

But was it not said that he was a Shamrock Rovers fan once?