Andy Reid(b 1982)

**Drumcondra 69er** · 01/12/2008, 10:02 AM

Vincent Hogan's take on the Mainz incident in the indo today. Reid was some idiot if it's true.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...e-1558847.html

Defiant Reid to blame

By Vincent Hogan

Monday December 01 2008

"They say some of my stars drink whiskey, but I have found out that the ones who drink milk-shakes don't win many ball games" -- Casey Stengel, former New York Yankees and Mets manager.

This isn't a story about drink and its delinquent hold on professional football. It may serve the interests of knee-jerk philosophy to paint it as such, to tart it up into another keening parable on Ireland's relationship with booze and our native immaturity.

But, through the eyes of a worldly-wise Italian, it can only be about one thing. When Andy Reid kept on strumming his guitar after Giovanni Trapattoni's call for bed that night in Germany, he pretty much tossed the most basic concept of authority into an open fire.

True, there were -- purportedly -- nine others involved in the sing-song. Yet, they quickly dispersed the moment Trapattoni was seen to become animated at 2.0am in the hotel bar.

Reid, it is said, "challenged" the Irish manager and their argument reputedly came "close to blows".

Since Trapattoni articulated his version of events last week, our national team -- sadly -- has been gratuitously depicted as a rag-ball collection of Oliver Reeds, for whom little is of consequence beyond the next drinking session.

As a country, we have form here. When Roy Keane fell out with just about anything that moved in Saipan, the squad he left behind was conveniently flayed by every two-bit moralist this side of Heaven's door.

This worked on two levels. Firstly, it elevated Keane to messianic status in the eyes of his lovesick congregation. He was a man essentially sacrificing himself for the greater good. Secondly, it depicted his team-mates as feckless cads for whom the World Cup amounted to little more than an extended binge.

'Genesis' put the lie to that first piece of hokum by concluding that the Irish captain actually did not want to be at the tournament in the first place. The team's performances, in which -- physically -- they outlasted every opponent that they faced, pretty much belittled the second.

Drink was not the issue in Wiesbaden. Drink is not the issue with this Irish team. Yes, you can wheel out any number of physiologists or sports scientists who will tell you that alcohol is best avoided by any athlete at any time. Then again, most doctors will tell you and I that, if we take four drinks on a night out, we officially qualify as binge drinkers. And both conclusions, I imagine, are inviolably correct.

But there is a hopeless conceit at work in depicting the Irish players who broke that curfew in Germany as some kind of mongrel sub-species of, say, those who ply their trade in Trapattoni's homeland, as some commentators did last week.

It is not an uncommon thing in Italy and France to see footballers smoking after games. In English football, a smoker would draw disbelieving stares.

Trapattoni is a man of the world who knows that football is played by people not automatons. He had no difficulty with the players drinking in Wiesbaden, nor should he have had. It was Saturday night. The game in Podgorica was four days away. So long as the 1.0am curfew had been adhered to, this was hardly a night in Babylon.

The problems arose when the curfew was broken. A sing-song, reputedly kept alive by Reid and his guitar, had run a full hour over time before Trapattoni's patience snapped. If there were 10 players in the bar at the time, nine of them seemed to absorb their guilt pretty instantly and retired, without argument, to bed.

Reid, who had not featured in the night's victory over Georgia, chose - for whatever reason -- to stay and argue.

Perhaps something the manager said had angered him. Perhaps he simply felt that, as the musician in the group, he was being held largely culpable for the curfew being defied. Perhaps he was hurting a little over not being used in Mainz. None of this actually matters.

The fundamental here is that Reid rushed into a fight he had no business taking. In doing so, he challenged the authority of his manager on a level simply unimaginable in any serious dressing-room.

That was the story of Wiesbaden. Not the drink. Not the sing-song. Not even the careless breaking of the curfew. It was one player's decision to pick an idiotic fight when every intelligent muscle in his body should have been tugging him upstairs.

- Vincent Hogan

**paul_oshea** · 01/12/2008, 10:11 AM

the drink was the side effect that caused the arguement, what is hogan going on about. IF reid hadn't any drink on him the fight wouldn't have occured. To try and separate the two from eachother is stupid.

**shakermaker1982** · 01/12/2008, 10:17 AM

Andy Reid should call up Trap and apologise for his actions if this version of events is accurate. I don't feel sorry for him if he has been dropped because of this. Your trying to force your way into the team and you end up behaving like an asbo? Very clever. The players should leave the drinking to the supporters. Drink on the 14th October 2009 when he have hopefully qualified.

**Stuttgart88** · 01/12/2008, 10:43 AM

I wonder if telling Reid to get warmed up in Montenegro and then not putting him on was Trap's way of showing him who was the boss? (In response to Geysir's assertion that something must have happened between Montenegro, Cyprus & last month).

**Drumcondra 69er** · 01/12/2008, 1:38 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

the drink was the side effect that caused the arguement, what is hogan going on about. IF reid hadn't any drink on him the fight wouldn't have occured. To try and separate the two from eachother is stupid.

How do you know this? I'm assuming the lads weren't utterly blotto and none of the other 9 players objected. More likely Reid had the hump over not playing and that's why he reacted the way he did, if he gets that lairy after what was probably 4 or 5 drinks tops he shouldn't be drinking period.

**elroy** · 01/12/2008, 1:47 PM

You'd know we dont have a game for a couple of months.....slow news time of the year. I cant believe the amount of coverage that sat night in mainz has been given. Wow, a relatively minor argument between player and manager, not exactly uncommon.

Yes that player is no longer in the squad but he wasnt part of the first XI prior to this either.

This incident and more so the growing campaign in the media that an average premiership player who i believe has yet to complete 90 mins this season is seen as the messiah for our team........a team that is undefeated in competitive fixtures and nicely poised before that next game.......in a few months.

**Stuttgart88** · 01/12/2008, 2:36 PM

What surprised me was that Hogan seems to have sided with Trap. When I saw that he had penned an article I was assuming it'd be to try and stick the knife into the new management team.

**Den Perry** · 01/12/2008, 3:26 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

What surprised me was that Hogan seems to have sided with Trap. When I saw that he had penned an article I was assuming it'd be to try and stick the knife into the new management team.

I'm not taking sides on this one as I think Trappatoni is getting the results that are important, but I also admire Reid as a player and a person. He should definitely be in the squad and is ten times the player Stephen Hunt is. However, I shall say one thing - Hogan, stick to writing about GAA

**geysir** · 01/12/2008, 4:59 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I wonder if telling Reid to get warmed up in Montenegro and then not putting him on was Trap's way of showing him who was the boss?

My updated theory on it, based on Trap's press conferences, is that Trap gave Andy time to make the necessary adjustments in discipline/attitude/squad morale. For the Montenegro game, Andy was on probation but not completely out in the cold.
It became more evident when the squad assembled for the Cyprus game that Trap was not satisfied with whatever concerned him about Andy and decided to drop him totally.
On football ability, Andy deserves a place in the squad.
Trap has outlined often enough how it pleases him no end and how he put a value on a players attitude and determination to earn their place in the squad.

**Scram** · 01/12/2008, 5:14 PM

Originally Posted by Den Perry

I'm not taking sides on this one as I think Trappatoni is getting the results that are important, but I also admire Reid as a player and a person. He should definitely be in the squad and is ten times the player Stephen Hunt is. However, I shall say one thing - Hogan, stick to writing about GAA

Trappatoni is not getting the results. The 7 out of 9 points gathered so far have involved a huge amount of luck which, as we saw v Poland, can only get you so far.

No doubt that the defence looks more organised generally than under Stan, but that wouldn't be difficult!

Andy must be in the squad, and I be trying to get Carlsley and Andy O'Brien back.

O'Shea is not a center back and McShane is not a right back.

**Stuttgart88** · 01/12/2008, 6:23 PM

I think O'Shea is a perfectly good centre back.

**geysir** · 01/12/2008, 7:22 PM

Perfectly good means a c+?
good enough for us atm.

**Drumcondra 69er** · 02/12/2008, 9:09 AM

Originally Posted by Scram

Trappatoni is not getting the results. The 7 out of 9 points gathered so far have involved a huge amount of luck which, as we saw v Poland, can only get you so far.

No doubt that the defence looks more organised generally than under Stan, but that wouldn't be difficult!

Andy must be in the squad, and I be trying to get Carlsley and Andy O'Brien back.

O'Shea is not a center back and McShane is not a right back.

Absolute nonsense. Whether luck has been involved or not (given the stone wall penalty not given against Montenegro I'd argue not) he actually is getting results (2 wins and a draw are results by any definition). To argue otherwise is frankly deranged.

O'Shea alongside Dunne does far less harm then on the flanks and McShane is playing week in week out at right back for Hull and again does less damage there then in the centre. Ideally I'd like to see O'Brien back but he's made his decision and if Finnan is fit McShane won't be in the team.

**elroy** · 02/12/2008, 9:15 AM

Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

Absolute nonsense. Whether luck has been involved or not (given the stone wall penalty not given against Montenegro I'd argue not) he actually is getting results (2 wins and a draw are results by any definition). To argue otherwise is frankly deranged.

O'Shea alongside Dunne does far less harm then on the flanks and McShane is playing week in week out at right back for Hull and again does less damage there then in the centre. Ideally I'd like to see O'Brien back but he's made his decision and if Finnan is fit McShane won't be in the team.

Trap has been lucky - nonsense. In the second half of the Cyprus game we rode our luck at times but had enough chances to kill the game off. Cyprus only had one really good chance close to the end. Georgia was a deserved, lucky Whelan goal, Ill give you that but we deserved to win that game. Montenegro was a tricky potential banana skin where we were denied a stone wall pen and was the better team on the night.

O'Shea has been very good in the games so far and plays well alongside Keane. I'm wary of McShane however its hard not to take notice of his performances for Hull so far this season.

**geysir** · 02/12/2008, 12:13 PM

I can't remember any of our qualification achievements that has not been tainted by the "stigma" of luck etc.
Trap has not achieved anything yet, except 7 points. He will be judged on the performance to qualify out of this group.
Unless of course people have the expectation rather than the hope that we finish ahead of Italy.

**geysir** · 02/12/2008, 10:26 PM

Anyone notice that HUGE advert banner when you open the main Forum page.

"Why is Your Stomach Fat?"

Must be tagged to any mention of Reid on the www.