Taken from the West ham's fans forum Kumb.com
I can sort of understand why Zola made the subs he did, although I hope taking Behrami off was a precaution against injury rather than tactical as Diamanti is never gonna track back and do the tackling that we needed in that situation. He could see them scoring again and tried to put on some attacking players to see if we could nick the win. I feel we missed Parker a lot this afternoon as they bullied our CM. Andy Reid was outstanding for them but lucky for us Bent had one of his dodgy games.
There is no difference. If you have set piece routines that involve shooting and you score one time out of ten as opposed to routines that involve crossing and scoring one time out of ten, there is no difference. The scoreboard will be the same at the end of the game which is all that matters. And having wingers on who'll track back and central midfielders who are tenacious in the tackle will also affect the scoreboard.Originally Posted by Scram
Andy Reid is probably the Stephen Ireland of this season. Fringe player from the previous season facing the door after new found wealth and manager for the club, knuckles down and trains like crazy in the summer and wows everyone with his turnaround the next season proving himself to be the sides key player despite the players worth millions around him.
For what its worth Andy Reid is 49 points in Fantasy Football midfielders at the moment (4 points off 3rd position) while Darren Gibson has a grand total of 1. Even taking into account that Fantasy Football isn't the gospel according to football, this alone tells you all anyone needs to know about how both players are getting on at the moment.
Loyalty only gets you so far and why Trappatoni feels the need to include an who even when he is fully fit over a player that is clearly on top of his game is becominng more and more baffling.
Anyone that says Darren Gibson would fit into this 'system' and Andy Reid wouldn't knows nothing about football. Andy Reid wouldn't have gotten to where he is today without being able to fit into a game plan that his various managers throughout his career have asked him to play, whether this be 'in the hole', in the middle of the park or on either wing.
“I’d always play Pirlo but Trapatoni says his first concern is to avoid losing goals. The truth is that we didn’t know what we were doing out there" Gennaro Gattuso, June 2004.
I don't know why Sunderland players (either under orders from Bruce or by what they see in front of them) pass to Reid at every opportunity. But it was obvious yesterday that Reid is the conduit for everything good about Sunderland. His first touch (often with two WH players marking him) was superb. I would love to know Brady's true views on the sending to Coventry of Reid. Brady would have recognised himself in his prime yesterday.
Not the Andy Reid debate again.
Trap is without any shadow of a doubt the greatest manager the Irish senior soccer team has ever had. He knows more than everyone on this site about the nuts and bolts of ACTUALLY MANAGING A SUCCESSFUL soccer team. Sorry for the caps, but people still seem to think Trap is some chancer trying his arm with no plan.
Andy Reid does not fit into his plans and that's good enough for me. Many of Trap's decisions have seemed insane and mad to some in advance, but which worked out brillantly afterwards. In fact all his judgements have been spot on. And I trust his judgement on Andy Reid as well.
If Trap thought Reid would deliver us to South Africa, there isnt a doubt in the world he would have him in the squad and or team. It just so happens he doesn't think Reid would do any better than McGeady, Duff, Lawerance, Hunt or any of our creative players.
Trap prefers two central holding midfielders. Andy Reid is not a central midfielder. And is he better than what we have on the wings? I doubt it.
I repeat Trap is the best manager we have ever had. Imagine what he might have delivered if he had the players Big Jack had, or if he had Roy Keane playing for him. Give the guy a break, he's done well so far.
Even the manager of a Phoenix Park side would tell you that there is no place for Reid in the current team. He is not a central midfielder. Why replace what we have with a player out of position? It's insane that people would suggest that.
The balance of the team is fine now. Putting Andy Reid in the centre of midfield would destroy the balance and leave us exposed to attacks up the middle, not least from players like Henry and Anelka who sometimes drop deep. Andy Reid defending against Anelka and Henry? We'd be destroyed if that happened.
Last edited by Emmet7; 01/11/2009 at 9:01 PM.
Yes he is a central midfielder. That's where he has played most of his football down through the years.
You might not think he's a good central midfielder, or he is missing some defensive qualities, but he's a central midfielder...
As another poster stated. Anyone who says that Andy Reid is not a quality player knows nothing about football. Well, Its probally better not to comment on this load of rubbish you just wrote.
Hold on a minute, I never for one instance said he wasn't a quality player so you are arguing about something completely different.
He just doesn't fit into Trap's plans, he'd have to be played out of position to fit into those plans, it's really that straightforward.
Sticking Reid in the side in central midfield would be like saying Caleb Folan should be playing at right back or central defender because he's better than so and so.
I'm not the Irish manager, and clearly he doesn't think Reid fits in the side. And he's probably right on that.
Where would you put him in? Would you play him in central midfield against the French?
To be honest we have enough creative players in the team with Doyle, Keane, Duff and Lawrance or McGeady.
We are actually short on Roy Keane types, people who will make the tough tackles, track back, carry the ball forward, and make that last ditch tackle. Is Andy Reid in the same mould as Roy Keane?
And when people like me and others say we need a new Roy Keane, others say "Yes, but Andy Reid could give us creativity". But he's no Roy Keane, that's the problem.
Last edited by Emmet7; 01/11/2009 at 9:39 PM.
My point is we have enough creative players.
Those who say he should be in the side are always vague about what his role should be. What happens when an Ireland attack breaks down? He will definately have to defend then.
A central midfielder cannot go 90 minutes without defending. In any case I don't know if anyone has noticed, but Andy Reid isn't the tallest player in the world. So he'd be no good defending setpieces, another minus.
Trap has a cautious style of play. If he could win every game 1-0 he'd take that. Of course creative chances are going to be limited. But on the other side of the coin, the chances other teams create are limited.
That's why all Irish games under Trap (I think) have ended either draws or winning or losing by one goal. We are never going to win 5-0 but we are also never going to lose 2 or 3 nil.
Remember when Stan was in charge? One week we would go out and beat the Swedes by 3 goals, the next we would be beaten by 3 goals by Chile, or concede 5 against Cyprus.
Tactically we were defensively poor under Stan and Andy Reid was a cornerstone of his team.
We cannot afford to concede 2 or 3 goals against the French, whether Reid is playing or not.
Last edited by Emmet7; 01/11/2009 at 9:53 PM.
Emmet, Reid is better than Lawrence,Hunt and at the moment McGeady too, although I am a massive McGeady fan. Having said that at least they are wingers of quality so if Trap has an issue with Reid than fair enough those 3 are good enough to be in the team... but when he chooses to play Andy Keogh on the wing ahead of Reid that annoys me.
But as you said he is the best manager we have ever had and Im delighted with the way things are going over all. I just dont think that Andy Reids international career should be ended
Its really not that complicated!!!
We lost 3-0 to Australia. So straight away you should know that and don't. Trap has done an excellent job by getting us to the play-offs. But leaving Andy Reid out of the squad is a bad footballing decision. And your suggestion that Andy Reid was the cornerstone of and somehow to blame for results under Stan's is............What can I say.
Last edited by Noelys Guitar; 01/11/2009 at 10:16 PM.
He has previously for Ireland and for Charlton and Sunderland in the Premiership. What makes you think that he wouldn't be able to again, especially considering he is now at peak physical condition/fitness?
Of course Andy Reid should be playing, but Trap knows better.
(And he's old and stubborn. Make of that what you will.).
Found this link dated from the European Championship in 2004
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...icle447692.ece
Interesting to read Gattusso comments about how trap had left Pirlo out of the team during that Championship and that he was so forthright in his comments about how Trappatoni deals with players whom he can even speak the same language with.
Gattuso had been grumpy. He felt he and Pirlo should have reprised their AC Milan partnership against the Danes and, with Marcello Lippi or Fabio Capello expected to take over from Trapattoni after the tournament, he hasn’t been keeping his trap shut. “I’d always play Pirlo but Trap says his first concern is to avoid losing goals. The truth is that we didn’t know what we were doing out there, everyone should know his role and have precise responsibilities. Trap spoke to us for five minutes before training after the Denmark game but he didn’t say anything particularly interesting. Having top-class players isn’t enough, we need organisation too.” The headlines offered the same advice. Trap, We Need Pirlo said one, No Gameplan, No Leader, another.
Even as one of Andy Reids biggest fans I can admit that Pirlo is in a completely different league. If Trappatoni can leave Pirlo out of his team when almost every football fan would have him in their first 11 says everythnig we need to know about how Trappatoni sees the game.
This is the same Pirlo that played against us in 3rd gear and still ran the show.
This is the same player that later under Lippi was instrumental in the teams victory in the 2006 World Cup.
This is the same player that was named man of the match three times, more than any other player in the tournament, and ultimately won the Bronze Ball (3rd best player in tournament).
It just goes to show that Trappatoni ISN'T always right and should be open to question on his decisions. Ultimately his ideology is frozen in the 1980's when he won most of his silverware. He hasn't developed in the intervening years though football is now a totally different game than it was then, and regardless of us qualifying or not for South Africa he is not going to change his outlook on the game.
What Trappatoni's exit from the Italian job proves is that players make a team, not a manager and while Lippi used Pirlo to help him and Italy win the World Cup in 2006, Trappatoni lost his job for not doing likewise. If he had done so maybe now he would be known as a World Cup winner and not his successor.
“I’d always play Pirlo but Trapatoni says his first concern is to avoid losing goals. The truth is that we didn’t know what we were doing out there" Gennaro Gattuso, June 2004.
Would Andy Reid get a game at Man United ahead of Ryan Giggs, Anderson, Paul Scholes, Michael Carrick, Nani, Darren Fletcher, Antonio Valencia, Park ji Sung etc etc? Is he 22 or 27? And has he been injured recently?
Fantasy Football might be fine to show how Andy Reid is getting on but using it as a stick to beat Darron Gibson with is plain unfair and you know it. How about comparing Andy Reid to Damien Duff, as Trap seems to view Andy Reid as a left winger? Reid has 49 points from 653 minutes while Duff has 35 points from 581 minutes. Granted, it is in Reid's favour but not by loads and Duff has great experience and brings far more to our team and our system.
Your criticism of Darron Gibson is downright ridiculous.
Emmet. What makes you think Reid does not track back? Maybe in the past he did not do it as much as he should . He is a changed man. He is a different player now and he proves this week in week out against the best in the premiership .He is a gifted player who made a mistake. He loves playing football for his country and at one point stated he would swim across the Irish sea to do so.What more does a talented footballer have to do? Get down on his knees and beg? let bygones be bygones and move on. Andy has Trap and co should do the same.
Paul McGrath and Roy Keane who were Irelands best players over the last decade created more controversy that Reid will ever do, yet they are Gods among the greater percentage of football supporters population in Ireland.
Trap got us to the play offs and fair dues to him but his is not immune to criticism. What is going on between him and Andy is purely personal and nothing else. We have a small pool of talented players to pick from and Andy Reid is one of those. It’s just a shame that our manager does not think so.
His performance yesterday was comparable to Giggs at his best. He is at this moment in time miles ahead of Carrick. Sunderland outplayed United at Old Trafford and Reid was one of the best players on the pitch that day. Most neutral observers acknowledged that fact.
What player in the Irish team would ? it’s an absolute rubbish argument. We are not talking about the quality of Man u players we are talking about the fact that Trap sees Hunt, Lawrence, Keogh Rowland’s Miller and anyone else he calls up as better players than Andy Reid.
I like Gibson but he did not set the world a light at Wolves . He players better with betters players to carry him something we don’t have at present. By the time he breaks into the Manu first 11 we will be 27 if he is still fortunate enough to be around.
I'd actually like to see a comparison of Gibson and Fletcher at the same age. Fergie saw something in the young Scot that precious few others did, and kept him in the squad until he was ready to make the step up to the first team. Now people are starting to associate United's stuttering last few games with his absence.
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