QuoteHow many of Porto's Champs league winning team were still at the club for the 2004/5 season?? And where was The Special One??Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er
Considering Sporting Lisboa and FC Porto are in there; yeah, I would imagine that winning the Portuguese league with Benfica would be no mean feat.
How many of Porto's Champs league winning team were still at the club for the 2004/5 season?? And where was The Special One??
Sure a few of their big names had gone but a general dismissal of a league that had provided winners for the 2 main European trophies the previous two seasons does nothing but make you look foolish regardless of the special ones involvement.
I have to agree with drumcondra on this one weld. To dismiss the Benfica/Salzburg achievements because of their poor league is just silly really. That's like saying if he won the SPL with Hearts it doesn't matter cos the league is rubbish.
look, we're getting way off the point here. Sure he has won things, a lot of things actually but by the same token he has also left or been sacked from the same listed positions. There is no dispute he is a decorated and capable manager. At the same time he is not, nor should he be, immune from questioning and criticism over his squad selections, team selections and tactics. Otherwise we may as well shut the forum down. I dont understand why some posters are so quick to jump to his defense anytime an issue is raised, that defense consisting of saying Trap has more medals than any of us.
Someone mentioned that if we fail to qualify then we can evaluate how excluding Andy Reid harmed our chances. Thats a flawed logic. We can only evaluate based on the players that were selected and their performance. Who knows what Andy might have brought to our team over the last year? Truth is, we will never know because he wasnt there.
The issue at play here is the omission of a very gifted and determined player from an Irish squad over a very minor matter. Reidy has learnt the lessons and accepted the criticisms of his play, his weight etc, has shown marked improvements all round and yet he continues to be ignored by his national team manager. It strikes me as extreme pettiness from Trappatoni. It is such a pity, Reid is an excellent talent and has been a great servant to our national side.
The fact of the matter is that he was in and out of a (struggling) Sunderland team last season, and overweight.
He's played 5 fantastic games this year, and long may it continue, but it is ONLY 5 games. Trap has a long-term vision of the squad, and the fact of the matter is that in Trap's eyes, he probably sees this start by Andy as simply a good run of form, rather than his actual level of ability.
I think it's fairly evident from Trap's selections since his appointment that he doesn't pick players based on form, but rather on how he feels about their actual ability, and how he feels they will fit into his system.
Now all of this said, I would have had Andy Reid in the squad from day one, fat or not, in form for club or not, because I feel he offers something different, if not in the starting XI, then at least on the bench.
By posting his honours I think you've made the opposite of the point you were trying to make
Would Andy Reid have lost weight if Trap hadn't dropped him?
Should Andy Reid thank Trap if he's going to South Africa lean, fit and with a fantastic season behind him?
What about Andy Keogh and Shane Long being considered better wingers than him?
Ditto with the above.
Over the past 2/3 years he has been our best performer in central midfield after Steven Reid.
Spot on. Nobody is infallible. People that use that line of argument do not have a sufficient knowledge of football to debate the point been made.
His fitness has never been a problem though, and while he could have done with losing weight before now it was never such an issue that it prevented him having the required fitness levels to compete at international level.
And if Strunz had got off his backside, maybe Bayern would have won the title in 97/98
Ive had plenty of rants on this site about just that, but my point was when I wrote that was that Rowlands was being called up to replace a central midfielder and I could understand Trap not considering Reid in the that position because of him playing on the wing this season..... but now that Duff is out and he still hasnt got a call up Im seriously p1ssed off about it
Its really not that complicated!!!
This is correct, I'd lose respect in any manager if their opinion of a player was changed entirely because of a handful of good performances. And if you take the last two years Duff, Hunt, McGeady and Lawrence have been clear cut better than Andy has, so its no "travesty" that he's behind those guys.
If he keeps doing what he's doing month after month I don't think he'll be ignored, trap said he'd try him out in a friendly but our 2 most cruical games in years is not the venue for trying out a player the manager is uncertain of their use.
Glen Whelan, Keith Andrews, even Stephen Hunt wasn't getting into the Reading team in the Ch'Ship at stages last year. A fair whack of Reids absences were down to injury too (allthough that may be indirectly related to his condition at the time). It kind of ties in with your second point that Trapp doesn't base his decisions on form. His appearences for Sunderland wouldn't have been a factor.
I agree with you on the second point too, but Reid was involved in the Squads. He didn't become a different player prior to being omitted. There's other non footballing reasons for this omission, which in allot of cases may be valid, but Rieds conduct since warrants a decision based purely on what he can bring to the team on the pitch... Which is definately more than Andy Keogh could in a wide position.
I don't normally post on this forum, kind of stick to the LOI stuff because I'm a bit disillusioned with the national team setup, but just thought I'd post s few points.
Firstly, Trapattoni has a good club management record. But get this, it doesn't count for anything. That's right, and here's why. Club management is a different game, you buy the players you want to play the system you think will win you the most games, at least you can do that when you manage the likes of Inter and Bayern. You don't have that luxury when you manage an international team, so you make do with the best you have.
Secondly, Trappatoni has only managed Italy at an international level. The last time I checked we don't have a domestic league the level of Serie A, and we certainly don't have players the likes of Del Piero, Totti and Vieri to call on. Italy didn't do too great in the 2002 World Cup, the only major championship that Trappatoni was their manager for (please let me be right here, I know I'll get mauled if I'm not!).
Thirdly, Andy Reid has played 5 fantastic games this season. Recently. You pick your best on their current form. If Shay Given was having a torrid time and he'd let in 30 in his last few games you'd drop him. If Andy Reid is having a great time you pick him, simple as.
No offence to Rowlands, the lad gets called up so he has to take his opportunity, but he shouldn't be getting called up just because Trappatoni has an axe to grind.
Folan had hardly kicked a ball when he was brought in for the Italy game and set up the equalizer.
Robbie Keane was treated like sh*t by Benitez and he was in terrible form as a result during his time with Liverpool, but he still played very well for us.
Whelan wasn't starting for Stoke when he was made a starter by Trap, and he scored a key goal against Georgia, and went on to win and keep his place in the Stoke team.
Form is important, and I'd have Andy in the squad for reasons I've mentioned above, but ultimately Trap picks the squad based on HIS evaluation of their ability, not the evaluations made by pundits, fans, or managers in the English leagues.
So far, I'd say it has worked well for the most part, even though I'm a huge Andy fan and feel he should be in the squad.
Maybe.
Maybe, its some pervese reverse psychology logic on traps part, making andy play to the top of his game consistently, keeping on top of his weight and dangling the carrot in front of him as though to say "well boy, keep up the good work, and this carrot might eventually be yours"...
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
The worrying part for me is that he throws him in with Lee Carsley when talking about players that he's keeping an eye on, as I really don't think Carsley has any future with our squad.
Agreed!!
I don't see any significance to Trap mentioning Carsley.
He is a player that Trap has decided not to call up to the squad from the beginning but he is a player who has served us to the best of his ability. Carsley came out of retirement for the last campaign and offered that he would make himself available to Trap should he be needed. Trap is simply acknowledging that fact as a mark of respect.
With the unfortunate injury to Rowland, who actually did ok when he came on against the Italians and put himself in the frame for a squad place, and depending how serious the injury is, Trap will need more midfield cover.
This probably puts Reid in the frame.
However as we all know and Tony O'Donaghoe found out, if you keep mentioning Andy Reid to him, he just loses his temper and storms off.
If everyone stopped mentioning Andy Reid, it would improve Reid's chances a lot.
But when people go on about Andy Reid this and Andy Reid that, and Andy Reid would have done it this way, Trap probably feels he needs to prove who the manager is and who picks the team.
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