will anymore eL players get capped next year?

[Éanna]

Put them into a better league, be it the Premiership, Championship or La Liga and then he will see if they can cut it.

put them into a team for a friendly and watch them train for a few days, and any manager worth his salt will be able to see if they can cut it. why should a fella have to emigrate to play for his country? its sad

[OneRedArmy]

you completely missed my point. over the summer when kerr was making noises about picking elliot, he didn't have those 9 goals in div one and had hardly played any first team football, while Doyle was pretty much equalling his scoring rate with the U21's, and scoring goals in europe. And as far as I'm concerned Nijmegen (and malmo and nantes) would be of AT LEAST first div standard in england.

I don't think I've missed your point. Your point became clear in your last post.

You'd rather the Irish team was made up of the best XI domestic players and you presumably accept the huge drop in performance that would entail. A valid opinion if not my own.

I'm no huge fan of English or particularly Scottish football, but the standard is demonstrably better. Shels and Cork are the only teams that play football anywhere near English division 1 standard, and they only do it once in a while, ie a few matches a season in Europe. The EL premier division is a division lower than that ON AVERAGE (and I'm being charitable here) and therefore whilst your Heary's and Doyle's of the world might have the potential to do it, they would need to be playing regularly at a higher standard.

Proof of this is the fact that 90%+ of the players the EL attracts from England are failures moving home. Failure is a hard word, but its true. If they were knocking in a bucketload over there or playing a blinder, they wouldn't comeback. Plain and simple.

Yes, as patsh says Kerr could have said nothing, but his comments are tough love and there's no point living in the clouds about this.

I think the standard has improved over the last few years and is improving, but its got a long way to go.

Kerr told the truth and there's no point calling him a traitor for saying it. We should be putting pressure on the FAI to invest in the domestic game to narrow the gap and get more players in the squad.

[drinkfeckarse]

put them into a team for a friendly and watch them train for a few days, and any manager worth his salt will be able to see if they can cut it. why should a fella have to emigrate to play for his country? its sad

That's a fair point but it's a kinda catch 22 situation, he's not going to call them up because the league isn't strong enough so even if they are playing well he doesn't see it, because he just thinks the players they are up against are not good enough.

[Slash/ED]

Proof of this is the fact that 90%+ of the players the EL attracts from England are failures moving home. Failure is a hard word, but its true. If they were knocking in a bucketload over there or playing a blinder, they wouldn't comeback. Plain and simple.

So was Clinton Morrison (Spurs) Matt Holland (West Ham) Graham Barrett (Arsenal and Brighton) and many many others. Doesn't stop them getting into the national team because, believe it or not, players can actually improve with age. By your criteria, Matt Holland failed with a premiership team as did Morrison and are both now regulars in the premiership thus proving the premiership is a lower standard than the premiership

[drinkfeckarse]

Or the SPL, that centre of world class football that we're picking Maybury from...

Nobody's saying it is Slash, but the fact is Maybury will be up against a better quality of player there more often than he would in the EL....even if it is only the Old Firm every 6 weeks or so.

[Slash/ED]

Nobody's saying it is Slash, but the fact is Maybury will be up against a better quality of player there more often than he would in the EL....even if it is only the Old Firm every 6 weeks or so.

How is the odd match against the Old Firm while consistently playing a lower standard of player better than the odd match against Lille, Split, Deportivo, Rosenborg and co while consistently player a lower standard of player.

[Éanna]

IYou'd rather the Irish team was made up of the best XI domestic players and you presumably accept the huge drop in performance that would entail. A valid opinion if not my own.

yes. I would. I wouldn't call Kerr a traitor. I think he's made some bloody stupid decisions, aside from the whole eL vs England debate, but I'm sick of him being portrayed as some kind of example to this league,someone we should seek to emulate. Face facts, the FAI couldn't care less about us, so why should we care about them. If Kerr (or anyone else) wants to go and help the FAI, good luck to them, but they're moving into the sphere of british football when they do so, and thus leaving this league behind.

[Paulie]

So why should I support them?

I don't hate him at all. I was glad to see him get the job. I just think he's made some very silly mistakes and I'm very annoyed about them. I don't go to landsdowne road, because I refuse to support a british team picked by the FAI, and line the FAI's pockets for the privilege.

Two questions:

If you don't support them why were you glad to see him get the job?

Why were you annoyed about some of the silly mistakes that you feel he made?

If you didn't support them surely you wouldn't care who got the job or get annoyed at any mistakes you feel he made.

As for not going to Lansdowne I reckon the real reason is because it would take you too long to get to Dublin on that high horse of yours.

[OneRedArmy]

So was Clinton Morrison (Spurs) Matt Holland (West Ham) Graham Barrett (Arsenal and Brighton) and many many others. Doesn't stop them getting into the national team because, believe it or not, players can actually improve with age. By your criteria, Matt Holland failed with a premiership team as did Morrison and are both now regulars in the premiership thus proving the premiership is a lower standard than the premiership

Most of the returnees to the EL were struggling to establish themselves in second and third division teams never mind the premiership!!!

Moore, Fenn and Farrelly are a minority.

People do get better with age, but then again Kerr is running an international team, not a player rehabilitation exercise.

[Éanna]

If you don't support them why were you glad to see him get the job?

all the sky loving morons who said he couldn't get the job cos he never worked in England. And i love nothing better than seeing them with egg on their faces. because they're idiots, and everything that shows them up is a good thing.

Why were you annoyed about some of the silly mistakes that you feel he made?

Because when I watch football I like to see things done right, and people who make stupid mistakes bug me. Like Brian kerr. Also, on principle, the macken thing is just utterly revolting.

As for not going to Lansdowne I reckon the real reason is because it would take you too long to get to Dublin on that high horse of yours.

Not at all. I travel the length of this country (and further) every year to see city. thats my priority. Paying 30-odd euro to sit in a crap ground with no atmosphere and watch a bunch of over-paid prats is not my ideal way to spend my hard-earned cash. The fact that I'd have to drive to Dublin and spend hours in the car only makes it worse. And, like I said, I hate giving any money to the FAI

[drinkfeckarse]

How is the odd match against the Old Firm while consistently playing a lower standard of player better than the odd match against Lille, Split, Deportivo, Rosenborg and co while consistently player a lower standard of player.

Well without being cheeky here, Shels aren't guaranteed to play teams of that calibre all the time. Ye might get knocked out after 2 games next season, ye might not.

It is just my opinion too that the likes of Hibs and Aberdeen provide better opposition than most of the EL teams. They have squads full of full internationals (albeit Finland, Scotland etc) and U21 players and not a lot of EL clubs can provide that.

[Paulie]

Because when I watch football I like to see things done right, and people who make stupid mistakes bug me.


And, like I said, I hate giving any money to the FAI

I'm sure that the Irish team will feel honoured to know that you bother to watch them at all. As for stupid mistakes there are those who would regard picking EL players for the international team as a stupid mistake.

Valid point about the FAI. I don't like the fact that when going to see the team I support that I have to give them money but if that's the price I've to pay then so be it.

I think what this boils down to, and it appears as though the majority of posters on this thread agree with this, playing in the EL is not a criteria for playing in the international side. If Kerr did not go to EL games people would be complaining about the fact that he didn't know anything about it. He has been involved in the league for God know how many years, has come to the conclusion that players are not up to the standard of international football that we aspire to and so people's reaction is to slag him off, all of a sudden he doesn't care about the league. Would you possibly consider that he may have a point?

[Éanna]

As for stupid mistakes there are those who would regard picking EL players for the international team as a stupid mistake.

there are. they're called idiots/barstoolers/sky loving morons. people who's opinion doesn't count.

Valid point about the FAI. I don't like the fact that when going to see the team I support that I have to give them money but if that's the price I've to pay then so be it.

fair enough, thats just a matter of opinion, and each to his own there IMO

I think what this boils down to, and it appears as though the majority of posters on this thread agree with this, playing in the EL is not a criteria for playing in the international side.

you're right. thats why landsdowne is full of people who don't know how to make an atmosphere and why eL grounds aren't full.

If Kerr did not go to EL games people would be complaining about the fact that he didn't know anything about it. He has been involved in the league for God know how many years, has come to the conclusion that players are not up to the standard of international football that we aspire to and so people's reaction is to slag him off, all of a sudden he doesn't care about the league. Would you possibly consider that he may have a point?

he has come to that conclusion. but since he stopped working in this league there has been a continuous improvement, and I don'r think he fully appreciates it. He might care about the league, I'm sure he does- I just think he's not doing a great job in how he deals with the league.

Look, I don't suggest that we should suddenly fill the side with untried players in a crunch qualifier. the vast majority of eL players are NOT good enough. But those who are deserve their chance without having to move abroad. And giving a guy 60 mins or even 45 in a meaningless friednly won't harm anyone.

[Paulie]

you're right. thats why landsdowne is full of people who don't know how to make an atmosphere and why eL grounds aren't full.

he has come to that conclusion. but since he stopped working in this league there has been a continuous improvement, and I don'r think he fully appreciates it. He might care about the league, I'm sure he does- I just think he's not doing a great job in how he deals with the league.

Look, I don't suggest that we should suddenly fill the side with untried players in a crunch qualifier. the vast majority of eL players are NOT good enough. But those who are deserve their chance without having to move abroad. And giving a guy 60 mins or even 45 in a meaningless friednly won't harm anyone.

So far as the atmosphere at Lansdowne is concerned, yes it is pretty poor. I've been to enough Ireland away matches however to know that nearly every time we go away we outshout the home support. Yet when these same supporters go to see us play at home there is not nearly the same noise from them. Just for whatever reason home supporters at intl. games tend to be quieter than they should be. This is not just an Irish phenomenon.

As for Kerr not being aware of the continuous improvement in the EL, he still goes to games so you would think that he'd be aware if players were approaching intl. class.

Regarding giving the EL lads a proper run out. I agree that there is a point in giving them a proper run out if Kerr feels that they have a chance of future call ups, and not just for friendlies. Otherwise I can't see a point. You might say what then is the point in calling him up to the squad at all if Kerr's mind is already made up and the player has no real future in the squad. I would agree with that. There is no point.

[Slash/ED]

Well without being cheeky here, Shels aren't guaranteed to play teams of that calibre all the time. Ye might get knocked out after 2 games next season, ye might not.

But they already have played teams of that calibre and proven themselves, the same as you've said there could be said of Hearts and Brian Kerr said it's Hearts European results that are getting Maybury into the team. There's very little between Hearts European results and Shels, only seeding sent them a whopping one round further than us.

ust my opinion too that the likes of Hibs and Aberdeen provide better opposition than most of the EL teams. They have squads full of full internationals (albeit Finland, Scotland etc) and U21 players and not a lot of EL clubs can provide that.

The same Aberdeen Bohs knocked out of Europe? We've internationals here, Shels have four and another who's sat on the bench but didn't get capped for a senior internnational team and that's from countries like Ireland and Cameroon, Ndo went to two world cups ffs! Bohs have two, Drogheda have a Finland international and there's more. And the league is bloody filled with U21 internationals!

[gypsyfella]

But they already have played teams of that calibre and proven themselves, the same as you've said there could be said of Hearts and Brian Kerr said it's Hearts European results that are getting Maybury into the team. There's very little between Hearts European results and Shels, only seeding sent them a whopping one round further than us.



The same Aberdeen Bohs knocked out of Europe? We've internationals here, Shels have four and another who's sat on the bench but didn't get capped for a senior internnational team and that's from countries like Ireland and Cameroon, Ndo went to two world cups ffs! Bohs have two, Drogheda have a Finland international and there's more. And the league is bloody filled with U21 internationals!

Jesus the selective arguments on here are something else!!!

Hearts have been in Europe more regularly than Shels, not just this year.. they beat Bordeaux away from home last year..theyve plenty of Scottish internationals with experience. theyve sold lots of players to Premiership teams in recent years... none of which Shels or any irish team has...

Aberdeen that Bohs beat are miles off the Aberdeen Bohs would play today - would Bohs beat Celtic in Parkhead? Aberdeen did this year...
its experience he;s getting at i think and none of the players in this league have enough at a sufficiently high level...

and im not a BK fan ....

[harry crumb]

Why hasnt Brian Kerr been at Turners Cross...?

[Stevo Da Gull]

A B-Team is certainly the way to go but I dont understand why the EL players who do well for the U-21's are overlooked, they perform well against players from quality league's but are overlooked because they're still plying their trade in the EL- Did'nt K Doyle, Houlihan and J'O Flynn get good reviews when they played , just give them a chance!


And I am not really anti-kerr but the Jason Byrne cap baffled me a bit, he sent on Jayo for stoppage time would it of really hurt to have actually given him a chance and put him on with a good 20 mins to go

[eirebhoy]

There really are some ********'s on this forum. You would think Kerr would prefer Ireland to fail rather than cap an Eircom league player. Cop on people.

[harry crumb]

Its just the frustration of being a League of Irelan fan. We see our national team up to 12th in the world rankings but our league is still light years behind(facilities)