setup next year

**CollegeTillIDie** · 11/12/2004, 8:37 PM

Previous postings have mentioned having a 16-18 team Premier Division and regional First Divisions below that. Where would these teams come from?

There have previously been League of Ireland clubs located in West Limerick
(Newcastlewest) and the rest in the past thirty years were in County Tipperary ( Thurles Town) and Dublin ( St.James's Gate and St. Francis).
Now forget about another Dublin club that leaves West Limerick and maybe Tipperary. Well forget West Limerick as Newcastlewest were not that well supported, and North Kerry would be a much better option anyway, and they are already in the Under 21 League. Then you would have to consider Mayo who also are already in the Under 21 League. So there would be possibly three new clubs in max in the League on that basis. The Tipperary club most likely to make the grade to League level in terms of having a good team would be Peake Villa, where as Clonmel Town would in terms of facilities probably be the best location in the county.

So given Kerry Mayo and Tipperary as the counties most likely along with Mullingar to feature possible future LOI clubs that leaves 4 making a League of 26 clubs.. which would mean two 5 team Divisions or else a 10 team First Division below the 16 team League. That might work. Another possible location would be Navan. But Parkvilla are not that strong at present despite the fact their facilities could reach the required standard with a reasonably modest outlay.

**pete** · 13/12/2004, 11:01 AM

12 Team League is a disaster.

10 Team while having its flaws was at very competitive & very little mismatches.

There is not the quality in the country for a 12 team Premier & will encourage clubs to idle away as they know hard for most of the to be relegated & will be almost no chance of 1st division team winning a playoff. IMO the 10 team league has encouraged the likes of Drogs to invest if they wanted to stay & progress within the premier division.

**pineapple stu** · 13/12/2004, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by pete

12 Team League is a disaster.

10 Team while having its flaws was at very competitive & very few mismatches.

Dublin City were competitive? Only Kilkenny finished further adrift since the Premier was brought in. You could argue that they were competitive as they did take seven points from Bohs, but if they were competitive, then the three promoted teams - two of whom set record points tallies for the First Division - will be even more so. This season will be more competitive than last, I'd say.

And how are the uncompetitive teams going to get competitive by being dumped in the First Division? Very easy for a Cork fan to ignore the First Division, but having been there, clubs simply wither in there. Locking them in isn't going to do any good. Twelve teams gives more clubs the chance to get a season or two in the Premier - to get some money in and get some exposure - still has relegation, which almost everyone seems to accept is needed and is still going to be competitive.

**Macy** · 13/12/2004, 1:29 PM

I've always been a supporter of the regional teams having to make it on the pitch to reduce the Dublin ratio of the league, however I'm coming around to expanding the league so that it's a straight 2 series expanded premier (assuming, and it's a big assumption, that teams come into the first).

The whole arguement about the summer season, was to raise the performances of eL clubs in Europe - play a better standard so improve the standard here. Why shouldn't this be done with the top first division teams as well? I'd sure as hell prefer 2 games a season against Athlone or Galway than 3 or 4 against UCD or Bray.

The caveats I would have would be the grounds being up to scratch (but then they don't enforce that now), and as I mentioned before that there are teams to make the first at least 10 teams.

However, I think we need either an all ireland league or a radical reform of the entire league set-up (i.e. not just playing with premier division numbers) to save domestic football in Ireland.

**pete** · 13/12/2004, 1:38 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

However, I think we need either an all ireland league or a radical reform of the entire league set-up (i.e. not just playing with premier division numbers) to save domestic football in Ireland.

I think the only real chance of a 16 team Premier is through an all-ireland/island top division with probably then regionalised 1st divisions but unfortunately IMO that is at very least 3 years away & that would be very optimistic.

I'm really looking forward to the Setanta Cup until something happens to break that enthuasism. I can't speculate about other clubs but April is good month for it as Premiership interest decreasing as honours decided & locals starved of live football. The cross will look great with at least 5-6k crowd & live tv.

**crc** · 13/12/2004, 2:48 PM

The 10 team league was definately more competitive, and I don't mind playing each side four times.

However, not being in the top ten is killing regional teams like Galway, Sligo, Dundalk, Athlone, which have proven in the past that they have the fans and are capable of sustaining interest (when playing in the division that matters).

12 teams is a step in the right direction, but playing each side three times is daft. I also don't like spliting the league after the third round either.

A 14 team Premier might work for one year as a transition to 16 teams, playing each other team twice (i.e. 26 and then 30 games in total). 18 would be too big. The second tier should then have about ten teams. It shouldn't be too big, and certainly not bigger than the top division. The second tier should be a bridge between amateur football and the top flight, not a place where clubs sit ad infinitum being neither one thing nor the other, as is currently the case.

Promotion / Relegation between the first and second tier should be fluid - 3 or 4 teams going in each direction each year. This means that the teams near the bottom of the Premier don't ever feel too comfortable, but likewise, being relegated isn't the death sentence it currently is with teams having only a slim chance of getting back to the big time.

This would necessitate bringing a few more teams to the league. The argument that there aren't enough fans to go around only holds in the Dublin area. Bringing in teams from counties like Kerry, Mayo, Tipperary, etc, will not eat into the fanbase of existing clubs. Otherwise we could try to poach a few more northern sides like Newry or Omagh

. I would love an all-Ireland league, but I honestly don't think we'll see it any time soon.

**Dr.Nightdub** · 13/12/2004, 8:55 PM

I know it's probably not right to expect to be able to make judgements about potential League form based on cup games, but the fact of the Kerry and Mayo Leagues being in next year's League Cup might give an indication as to whether there are options for adding more clubs to the First so as to make a 16-team Premier feasible.

If Kerry and Mayo turn out to be halfway decent, then maybe there's a case for expansion. But if the only benefit they bring is that Limerick get to play someone that's even more ****e than they are, then there's not much point.

**mypost** · 14/12/2004, 4:17 AM

Originally Posted by Xlex

typically, a lop-sided league is a load of pants. I remember it worked quite well for Longford when we had two of the top three sides at home, and faired quite well too.

If there were 4 rounds of games next year in the Premier, every team would have to play a standard 44 games. Throw in Pre-season friendlies, FAI Cup games, League Cup games, replays, and for some clubs, Setanta Cup, and European games too, and you're talking around 60 games a season for clubs, which is simply not suited to what remains a mostly part-time league. Some clubs for various reasons, have little money, small squads, and poor crowds, and it's just too many games.

At least with only 33 games next season, it should free up weeks for clubs to re-schedule games when necessary, so we don't have a situation like last season where with 3 weeks left, Longford had 6 league games left to play.

I hated the 4 rounds of games. Last season for example, we had to play Longford not 4 times, but 6 times, including 3 times in a month, with 2 games in the Cup. The previous year, we had to play Pats 6 times. Anyway, no disrespect, but do most clubs want to have to play the likes of UCD, Bray, and Drogheda 4 times a season? The 3 rounds will mean that some clubs, will only have to travel to Cork, Derry, Finn Harps, Shels, or Rovers, and so on once, while they get to play them twice at home. Some clubs will get lucky with their fixtures, others won't.

By the way, with only one team certain to go down, plus a play-off (2 more games for that too), Rovers will be scrapping it out for 10th spot, and safety again.