setup next year

**Schumi** · 09/12/2004, 1:19 PM

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

Muppets should have left it the way it was. 18 home and 18 away in a 10 team competitive league.

One step forward and 2 steps back!

Start it first weekend of march and finish it second last sunday in october with Cup Final the following sunday. But then that makes sense

Not too keen on a 10-team league but the timing point is dead right. The cup final should be the last game and the season should start earlier to avoid games well into November.

**harps1954** · 09/12/2004, 1:44 PM

The league is due to start in mid March and end in mid November with the Cup Final on the October Bank Holiday weekend.

Personally, I would go the same way as Scotland with a split after the third round of fixtures. So after the third round of fixtures, teams would have five games still to play. Basically the teams you played away from home twice during the 33 game season, you would have at home during this mini-league and vice-versa. That would leave every team with 38 games with 19 home and 19 away. They can do it successfully enough in Scotland, I'm sure the eL could arrange the same here. That would mean five rounds of mid week fixtures during the season or start the season a week or two earlier to avoid too many midweek games.

Also, and I think this was mentioned earlier in the season, I think teams in European should be scheduled to play one another around the times of the European fixtures. This was mean postponements would only effect the teams in Europe and not nearly the entire Premier Division as it did on occassions last season.

Anyway, only my views.

**jimhacker** · 09/12/2004, 1:45 PM

Originally Posted by Cosmo

10 team league is a definite no no for me anyway

Agree fully - playing teams four times a season plus cups etc is ridiculous

**NY Hoop** · 09/12/2004, 1:52 PM

Originally Posted by jimhacker

Agree fully - playing teams four times a season plus cups etc is ridiculous

Not really. It has to be 4 or 2 and it simply cannot be 2 because then you would need a 16 team premier and that wont work for several reasons.

The 10 team league was competitive with NO meaningless games. With a 12 team league especially if only the 11th and 12th team going down there will be meaningless games.

Playing each other 3 times IS ridiculous IMO.

KOH

**pineapple stu** · 09/12/2004, 2:01 PM

Originally Posted by harps1954

Personally, I would go the same way as Scotland with a split after the third round of fixtures. So after the third round of fixtures, teams would have five games still to play. Basically the teams you played away from home twice during the 33 game season, you would have at home during this mini-league and vice-versa. That would leave every team with 38 games with 19 home and 19 away.

But what if, say, Shels qualified for the top half having played each of the six teams in the bottom half twice away from home? They would then have played the top five at home twice each and you'd be left with either giving Shels five away games to balance that out (an obvious no-no) or else giving Shels three away games and two home games - which would leave them playing some teams at home three times and away once, which makes matters worse. Obviously, this doesn't need the extreme case I mention to work, I'm just using that to highlight the problem.

**pineapple stu** · 09/12/2004, 2:02 PM

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

The 10 team league was competitive with NO meaningless games.

What about Dublin City's last game against Rovers? Relegation decided three weeks from the end. Would have happened with the 12-team league as well obviously, but it does kind of negate your point!

**patsh** · 09/12/2004, 2:15 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

What about Dublin City's last game against Rovers? Relegation decided three weeks from the end. Would have happened with the 12-team league as well obviously, but it does kind of negate your point!

Meaningless in terms of points, but it was probably the most meaningful game of the season, really.....

**Cosmo** · 09/12/2004, 2:52 PM

I'd try and bring 4 more teams into the Eircom League (they're amateur teams/ clubs now but only in name as there are some out there with better facilities/ set ups than some EL clubs!!) and thus having a 16 team premier and 10 team first division would work!!

Obviously couldnt happen over night bringing these teams into the league but I think it should seriously be considered planning on having 4 more teams in the EL over the next 2 or 3 seasons and see how it goes!!

**NY Hoop** · 09/12/2004, 3:06 PM

Originally Posted by Cosmo

I'd try and bring 4 more teams into the Eircom League (they're amateur teams/ clubs now but only in name as there are some out there with better facilities/ set ups than some EL clubs!!) and thus having a 16 team premier and 10 team first division would work!!

Obviously couldnt happen over night bringing these teams into the league but I think it should seriously be considered planning on having 4 more teams in the EL over the next 2 or 3 seasons and see how it goes!!

No chance. League can barely afford to have 22 members. Not enough fans or players to go around. Look up north. They have 28 teams

16 team premier would be dreadful. Too many meaningless games and it would be in effect a two tier division.

2 divisions of 10 teams is the only way forward with proper facilities and more media coverage IMO. I can dream cant I?!!!

KOH

**fitzknows** · 09/12/2004, 5:23 PM

Reckon this could easily happen if there was a move to an all-ireland competion. There could also be 2 regional second tiers of say 10 teams a piece. It could happen alot sooner than we think. If the FAI & IFA had any sense they would be already discussing this as a springboard to revitalising the domestic leagues on this island.

**kevincronin2000** · 09/12/2004, 5:37 PM

Originally Posted by Cosmo

10 team league is a definite no no for me anyway

We need a sixteen team premier division but there are not enough teams with the quality to play in the premier the ONLY way forward is an all ireland leauge

**The Sheliban** · 09/12/2004, 7:23 PM

Pat Fenlon asked the league when they were going to start up again, as he needed to plan pre-season training etc, and was told that nobody knew. The more you try to inject some professionalism, the more you get thwarted.
For my tuppence worth, revert back to an 18 team league. This talk about not enough quality teams is a red herring. Just an excuse for bigger clubs, like my own, to maximise their earnings at the expense of the smaller clubs, who must ply their lonely trade in a deserted First Division. Lets have some good old-fashioned Bertie Ahern-style socialism here, and not try to put the Limericks and Monaghans out of business.

**Xlex** · 09/12/2004, 7:37 PM

typically, a lop-sided league is a load of pants. I remember it worked quite well for Longford when we had two of the top three sides at home, and faired quite well too.

The reason the split league was abandoned was because in the 12 team league of the day, side X was sixth and Y was seventh in the league at the split and team Y finished the league with more wins.

We're goosed either ways and any talk of the North is silly because it means the two partys coming together and sorting it out. It's the future for the game in ireland. and therefore it's not going to happen. QED.

**TonyD** · 09/12/2004, 8:13 PM

Originally Posted by The Sheliban

Pat Fenlon asked the league when they were going to start up again, as he needed to plan pre-season training etc, and was told that nobody knew. The more you try to inject some professionalism, the more you get thwarted.
For my tuppence worth, revert back to an 18 team league. This talk about not enough quality teams is a red herring. Just an excuse for bigger clubs, like my own, to maximise their earnings at the expense of the smaller clubs, who must ply their lonely trade in a deserted First Division. Lets have some good old-fashioned Bertie Ahern-style socialism here, and not try to put the Limericks and Monaghans out of business.

I find myself in agreement with a Shels fan - what the hell is happening ?

I think the only answer is to bring more teams in. 16, or even 18. Clubs like Galway, Sligo and Athlone are never going to recapture past glories stuck in the no-mans land of a first Division nobody cares about. The only way to increase quality is to play against better teams, isn't that what we've always been told ? Crowds will come back to the likes of the Clubs mentioned if they are in the top Division, and it would solve the problem of the number of games, the over - familiarity etc. Splitting the league in two half way through is lunacy. If you want to talk about meaningless games there's a perfect example - that's why that experiment was abandoned before. Inclusivity, not exclusivity I say !!

**MervilleUnited** · 09/12/2004, 9:48 PM

Seems like a lot of disatisfaction out there with the current set up!! Anyone thinking outside of the box? ie any radical ideas? off the wall most welcome!

**Guitd** · 09/12/2004, 9:56 PM

if the prem. was still a ten team league the mighty hoops would be playing in the first div. dont forget last season???????????

**Aberdonian Stu** · 10/12/2004, 8:03 AM

Their simply isn't enough quality or interest to maintain an 18 team league, and unless you're planning on bringing in more clubs (which we can't sustain) the threat of relegation is gone which makes thing meaningless for a lot of clubs for a large chunk of the season.

18 would be the ideal number in an AIL as we could sustain a smaller second tier. I think the It could work along the (wrongly) abandoned Italian as with 4 teams going down (although three would be better) in the previous system they kept it exciting. It also allows for a meaningful playoff system in the second tier.

But an AIL won't happen so here's me dreaming.

**NY Hoop** · 10/12/2004, 3:57 PM

Originally Posted by GUITD

if the prem. was still a ten team league the mighty hoops would be playing in the first div. dont forget last season???????????

Never will as went to all 36 games

No more teams to come in. Not enough players and fans to go around. Cannot emphasis this enough.

The only way a 16 team league would work would be in an All Ireland league. Til then 2 divisons of 10 teams is the way forward.

KOH

**The Sheliban** · 11/12/2004, 6:56 PM

Why wouldn't an eighteen or sixteen team league work? It works in England. All clubs have potential to get good crowds. We all remember Athlone, Dundalk, Limerick, Sligo, Galway being able to generate crowds when they were big clubs. Longford is of course the great example to all sides. A bit of success and an energetic board can draw crowds.
How about having one Premier League of 18 clubs, and a regionalised first division. Winners of say the four regional divisions to play off for promotion.

**pineapple stu** · 11/12/2004, 8:18 PM

Originally Posted by The Sheliban

Why wouldn't an eighteen or sixteen team league work? It works in England.
How about having one Premier League of 18 clubs, and a regionalised first division. Winners of say the four regional divisions to play off for promotion.

Who'd be in the regional divisions? The top junior/intermediate clubs don't want to be in the league. There were only two teams applied for the last vacancy - Kildare County and Mullingar Town. You're simply not going to have 40 teams (which is the least you'd need for your four regional leagues) looking to enter the league. All those teams would need a UEFA B Licence, which wuold be huge outlay, especially with grants not forthcoming. The newest team in the league - Kildare - had smaller crowds than UCD this season. Obviously if they can get into the Premier for even a year, their crowds could take off, but this is the reality of bringing new clubs into the league - you aren't going to get a new team who'd have an average crowd of 1000 in the regionalised First Division. The fact that a 16-team leauge works in England is meaningless - for starters, they don't have any 16-team leagues (or 18-team leagues), and secondly, they have the clubs and the interest whereas we patently don't. Even with an All-Ireland league, I'd be scepitcal about a Premier of any more than 14 teams.

Ultimately, there are only 22 or so clubs who want to play league football, and that's the structure we've got to work with. Any talk about 16-team leagues is pie in the sky. It has to be either a ten- or a twelve-team Premier, end of story.