thebudget

[pete]

Seem to be a nothing much budget, just tinkering around the edges again. Good to see low income folks out of tax net & that standard tax band widened more which will proportionatly benefit tax payers the less they earn.

Its clear FF are keen to move from right of centre to left of centre for next election as thats where the opposition are positioning themselves. FF already have the right of centre vote snapped up as little competition except for PDs here 'n there. If FF compete well & electorate fall for it then they certain to win next election.

[dahamsta]

I'm aware of the fallout from the last election, but I can't really remember the 'proven history' (again, no more so than any other party, I mean did Labour and FG promise to bring the country to its knees with record unemployment and debt levels in the 1980s, because that's exactly what they did?). Could you enlighten me a little on the 'proven history'?

Does the last election not count or something? Is it not the best example of how Fianna Fáil are going to behave again? As to the unemployment and debt, those problems were of course created by Fianna Fáil, and as usual everyone else had to mop up after them.

adam

[patsh]

Patsh, I don't concede much, but I think you got me there. I assumed your suggestion was that FF were wrong in such action, I see you were not.

Your profuse apology and humble concession is accepted....

[dahamsta]

Which is as valid an argument as saying that any problems now can be traced back to the Rainbow Coalition...

I was being facetious Conor. It's funny that you say this and then go on to argue the point though.

[pete]

FF/PD coalition have only been in power since 1997 so they can't claim sole responsiblity for current boom as it had already started (96-97) by time they elected.

I think irish politics has become so focused on concensus that aside from SF there little difference anymore & also budget has little significance either. I'm looking for now & knew in advance that budget would have zero difference to my chances either way.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Which is as valid an argument as saying that any problems now can be traced back to the Rainbow Coalition...

The FG/Labour Coalition in the 80s was a complete and utter disaster for the economy. Now of course you may well go back in time and collar someone else, and I will concede that there were many factors outside their control, but their utter crapness was also a major factor. They spent 5 years in office while Ireland effectively ground to a halt and everyone fled and the National Debt (where did that go?) doubled. It would have been easy for governments after that, which included FF, Labour and the PDs, to use your line and say 'but Fine Gael created all the problems', instead they went a hell of a long way towards clearing it up.

Conor74..correct ...
Ok history lesson. Deficit budgeting in earnest began under FG/Labour in 1973 the Finance minister was Richie Ryan. But it got brutal altogether under two different regimes . The 1977-79 FF Government under the late Jack Lynch appointed an economist Dr. Martin O'Donoghue to a newly formed Department of Economic Planning. Then came the 1982-87 FG/Labour regime under an Economist as Taoiseach, Dr. Garret Fitzgerald. These bozos combined, mostly the latter two, buggered up the economy for decades to come by KEEPING ALL THEIR ELECTION PROMISES! When the economy did not generate enough revenue to fulfill them the governments concerned borrowed and borrowed and borrowed. Fitzgerald's bunch taking a £13 million national debt and turning it into a £26 million national debt. And all we got for that was dole payments to 300,000 plus people and mass emigration.

Two morals here, 1/ Never allow an economist anywhere near your economy 2/ Governments who occasionally break their promises are better for your country in the long run.

[pete]

Fitzgerald's bunch taking a £13 million national debt and turning it into a £26 million national debt. And all we got for that was dole payments to 300,000 plus people and mass emigration.

I presume you meant billion there...

[Macy]

There's a misconception that a budget deficit is necessarily a bad thing. IMO one McCreevy's big mistakes (leaving aside his tax policies) was the fact he was too hung up on breaking even, when we were (and still are) crying out for infrastructure investment. There would've been no problem going into deficit for capital investment programmes.

It's just the same as personal finances - debt isn't a problem if your buying an asset (eg mortgage for property, loan for a car), it only becomes a problem when it's going on current (everyday) spending....

[Macy]

Unless it's a George W. Bush deficit. I believe he likes them in terms of trillions, no pussyfooting about with 13 million or even 13 billion...

It's funny how the National Debt were such buzzwords in the 80s and seem to have disappeared.

Prime example of doing it wrong - he's national the national debt to fund tax cuts.

[pete]

Irish national debt now only 30% of GDP or GNP (not sure which they use) which by international standards is very low.

Yanks ar eonly trying to half their annual deficit in next 4 years so that instead of 4 trillion annual deficit would "only" be 2 trillion.

Always found it kinda strange how Amercian Republicans preech their Democrates about tax & spend yet historically the republicans always cut taxes but continue to spend so have huge deficits.