Marriage Equality Referendum - how will you vote?

**culloty82** · 21/05/2015, 1:57 PM

Anyone prepared to call it? I'll guess 60/40 Yes, with my own Kerry North constituency a narrow No.

**Spudulika** · 21/05/2015, 2:59 PM

Seeing as it is way down on the list of priorities of the vast majority and oddly "high" on the list of priorities of the FG/Labour regime, it'll pass. I always feel uneasy when this shower of scum push anything, especially without the regular passage of papers etc, but cannot see what is wrong with it. I personally have lots of questions about the knock on effect, but this doesn't seem to matter. Don't know anyone who will vote no, and if we're so desperate as a nation to be plamas'ed by "the watching world", it'll be 60/40 yes. People are too scared to question it let alone vote against it.

**Dodge** · 21/05/2015, 4:00 PM

You are a weird dude Spud.

**DannyInvincible** · 21/05/2015, 4:14 PM

Originally Posted by Spudulika

I personally have lots of questions about the knock on effect, but this doesn't seem to matter.

Says who? If people have unanswered questions/reservations, they're entitled to vote 'no'. What questions about the potential knock-on effects do you have?

Don't know anyone who will vote no, and if we're so desperate as a nation to be plamas'ed by "the watching world", it'll be 60/40 yes. People are too scared to question it let alone vote against it.

There are plenty of people questioning it and being allowed to question it. Isn't the state broadcaster obliged to protect balance? I'm not necessarily saying I have a problem with the notion of media balance - it's important in a democracy - but you might even say that it provides the 'no' side with a disproportionately large voice considering their support is in the distinct minority. You can question the motion here and we can have a thorough discussion on your concerns. Nobody's going to ban you.

**osarusan** · 21/05/2015, 5:44 PM

Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

but you might even say that it provides the 'no' side with a disproportionately large voice considering their support is in the distinct minority.

Absolutely. It's why we keep seeing the same no advocates again and again - they're pretty much the only ones.

**Spudulika** · 21/05/2015, 7:23 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

You are a weird dude Spud.

I know :-) Russia does that to a man, plus watching and listening and reading too much news! Here the news informs you! :-)

Danny, people who have reservations or questions are being made feel like they are somehow, don't know, homophobic for one. How many will vote yes and still have their gay jokes or be as ignorant about gay issues as before, or see gay people as inferior? Throwing out the "homophobic" thing is the same as "racist" or here - "western liberal", which I have happily managed to avoid as I see corruption on both sides of the fence.

And there is not a thorough discussion, and this is a problem. People who have strong religious beliefs and believe/feel that homosexuality is inherently wrong or at best misguided, may well be misguided themselves, but they are entitled to hold such beliefs so long as they do not use them to hate others. Yet instead there are all sorts of issues popping up instead of just talking about feelings, which this is largely about. Feelings, beliefs and respecting others.

One issue that bugs me no end, is that certain yes campaigners (one mentioned on here) has a good story, but has been sickening on twitter with her ridiculing anyone who dares raise an issue. Same with our civil rights bodies Apparently it is important to have equality and rights so long as it fits a bandwaggon agenda. For example certain civil rights bodies, dept foreign affairs and certain politicos all cry over a radicalised muslim who happens to be an Irish citizen, yet when a petition of more than a dozen abducted Irish children is presented to the same bodies they say "it's a family matter". Nice.

**Charlie Darwin** · 21/05/2015, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by Spudulika

Seeing as it is way down on the list of priorities of the vast majority and oddly "high" on the list of priorities of the FG/Labour regime, it'll pass. I always feel uneasy when this shower of scum push anything, especially without the regular passage of papers etc, but cannot see what is wrong with it. I personally have lots of questions about the knock on effect, but this doesn't seem to matter. Don't know anyone who will vote no, and if we're so desperate as a nation to be plamas'ed by "the watching world", it'll be 60/40 yes. People are too scared to question it let alone vote against it.

Gwan, admit it. You'd vote no.

**jinxy lilywhite** · 21/05/2015, 10:35 PM

The No side have yet to offer a compelling argument to vote no.

They cite children's rights though it is not covered in the referendum, surrogacy again no legislation in Ireland covers it, adoption again the adoption board state last week that homosexual can adopt and have adopted. The instance for denying a homosexual the right to adopt is only if the birth mother has expressed a wish for the child not to be adopted by a homosexual.

I really thought there would of been an intelligent discussion and debate on it and all I have seen is tit for tat crap. And the no side leading themselves from disaster to disaster.

We live in an age where we do not define people by their race, sexuality or religion. I like to believe that it's the content of someone character.

As far as I am concerned I don't believe that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, it is a choice whether they come out or not of the closet so to speak. So bearing that in mind I don't believe it is right to deny them the opportunity to marry the partner they live and want to spend the rest of their lives with and also the if anything untoward were to happen to either that they would have a right under the constitution as legal next of kin.

**DannyInvincible** · 22/05/2015, 2:09 AM

Originally Posted by Spudulika

Danny, people who have reservations or questions are being made feel like they are somehow, don't know, homophobic for one. How many will vote yes and still have their gay jokes or be as ignorant about gay issues as before, or see gay people as inferior?

It's a private ballot though. I mean, if people want to vote 'no', they can. If people otherwise hostile to homosexuality or people generally ignorant of LGBT issues wish to vote 'yes' and then return to type after their once-off gesture of good will, they're free to do that. They could also just vote 'no' and be consistent about it if they'd prefer. Either way, nobody will be preventing them from voting how they want to vote, whether it be 'yes' or 'no'.

And there is not a thorough discussion, and this is a problem. People who have strong religious beliefs and believe/feel that homosexuality is inherently wrong or at best misguided, may well be misguided themselves, but they are entitled to hold such beliefs so long as they do not use them to hate others.

What about using them to specifically deny upstanding others certain rights that are available to most of the population though? Surely you can appreciate why a gay person or advocate for LGBT rights might not be too sympathetic to such an intrusive and unreasonable position.

**Spudulika** · 22/05/2015, 6:34 AM

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Gwan, admit it. You'd vote no.

Ordinarily I would, especially with the corrupt shower of scum who are ruining the country further, or at best just abstain. But this time, no, I'd vote yes because I believe that everyone has the right to be married, even polygamy if it's proscribed in their faith (though why would anyone want more than 1 wife is beyond me). I see an equal amount of downsides for Yes and No, however I also live in hope that the mouthy lobby who are screaming everyone down now and making sure we're all equal, continue this and turnover the government. A kind of nouveau Rovers if you will.

**Spudulika** · 22/05/2015, 6:41 AM

Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

It's a private ballot though. I mean, if people want to vote 'no', they can. If people otherwise hostile to homosexuality or people generally ignorant of LGBT issues wish to vote 'yes' and then return to type after their once-off gesture of good will, they're free to do that. They could also just vote 'no' and be consistent about it if they'd prefer. Either way, nobody will be preventing them from voting how they want to vote, whether it be 'yes' or 'no'.

What about using them to specifically deny upstanding others certain rights that are available to most of the population though? Surely you can appreciate why a gay person or advocate for LGBT rights might not be too sympathetic to such an intrusive and unreasonable position.

This is the hypocrisy, once off gesture, consistent - we rot from the head down. An inconsistent and immoral government have divided and conquered, and the pressure on how to vote will press on a certain number, though the nonsense from both sides will probably mean these elements cancel each other out.

Sorry Danny, this cuts both ways. And both sides are permitted to have their own feelings and beliefs, it is in finding middle ground, which (largely) neither side of idiots are willing to give. The sneering, bullying attitude of some on the Yes side and their refusal to answer directly (Leo the lizard a case in point) and the inability to tell the truth from members of the No side (to express their feelings and not hide behind spurious arguments) means that there will be no coming together. Sadly we're getting further and further from maturity it's disheartening.

**DannyInvincible** · 22/05/2015, 9:07 AM

Originally Posted by Spudulika

Ordinarily I would, especially with the corrupt shower of scum who are ruining the country further, or at best just abstain. But this time, no, I'd vote yes because I believe that everyone has the right to be married, even polygamy if it's proscribed in their faith (though why would anyone want more than 1 wife is beyond me). I see an equal amount of downsides for Yes and No, however I also live in hope that the mouthy lobby who are screaming everyone down now and making sure we're all equal, continue this and turnover the government. A kind of nouveau Rovers if you will.

Why would you ordinarily vote 'no' if you believe everyone has the right to be married though? What would be the "ordinary" version of the present situation and why is this extraordinary so that you feel it more appropriate to vote 'yes'? And what do yo feel are the downsides to 'yes' passing?

Originally Posted by Spudulika

Sorry Danny, this cuts both ways. And both sides are permitted to have their own feelings and beliefs, it is in finding middle ground, which (largely) neither side of idiots are willing to give. The sneering, bullying attitude of some on the Yes side and their refusal to answer directly (Leo the lizard a case in point) and the inability to tell the truth from members of the No side (to express their feelings and not hide behind spurious arguments) means that there will be no coming together. Sadly we're getting further and further from maturity it's disheartening.

I just think a 'no' vote on his particular occasion is an inherently unreasonable position; it's supporting a restriction of others' access to certain rights (rights to which most Irish citizens already have access) simply because one might not agree with a private choice an independent stranger wants to make. Where is your reasonable middle ground? The reason the 'no' side cannot express their true feelings and have to rely on disingenuous and spurious arguments is for the very reason that they'd be exposed as distinctly unreasonable and illiberal if they actually had to be honest for a change. Usually people resort to twisted bull**** when they're on shaky ground. Perfect example of it here from David Quinn on Newstalk yesterday: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-31238445.html

**osarusan** · 22/05/2015, 9:24 AM

Originally Posted by Spudulika

I see an equal amount of downsides for Yes and No.

What are the downsides for a Yes vote?

**nigel-harps1954** · 22/05/2015, 9:37 AM

Originally Posted by osarusan

What are the downsides for a Yes vote?

Them gays can kiss and all that.

**Mr A** · 22/05/2015, 11:11 AM

Like others on here I have not at any point seen the No side raise a single argument that made any sense. Just the same old warnings that the sky will fall if it goes through. Lots of pretence that their views were not based on religion, a mask that fell away completely yesterday when the Iona chair basically spelled it out. I don't share the view that the Yes side was in any way bullying or arrogant. There were some incidents with posters and that egg incident was obviously very wrong, but in general the tone struck me as positive.

I think there is a very unfortunate tendency to use referendums to attack the government of the day rather than taking issues on their merits. Who the government is has nothing to do with an issue like this FFS.

**osarusan** · 22/05/2015, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by Mr A

Like other on here I have not at any point seen the No side raise a single argument that made any sense. Just the same old warnings that the sky will fall if it goes through.

The same fabric of society that they told us would be torn asunder 20 years ago if divorce was realised and again 5 years ago when the Civil Partnership Bill was enacted but is still intact now will be torn asunder this time! Can't you see?

**tetsujin1979** · 22/05/2015, 11:51 AM

The #hometovote movement would bring a tear to a glass eye.

**Mr A** · 22/05/2015, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by osarusan

The same fabric of society that they told us would be torn asunder 20 years ago if divorce was realised and again 5 years ago when the Civil Partnership Bill was enacted but is still intact now will be torn asunder this time! Can't you see?

Actually they supported divorce, and civil partnership. They only opposed those at the time because of technical deficiencies of the legislation.