Everton and Liverpool discussion

[anto1208]

everton have played 5 games which included utd arsenil and bolton ! 3 teams from the top 6 . they have 3 points and its considered a complete dissaster .

liverpool have 6 points from 4 games of which only one team is atop 6 team and there season is a complete success apparently !! there is only one win between the two teams and that win was gotten at home v sunderland

but unlike liverpool fans we wont blame our injury list (10 first team players) for our problems .

[jockser]

everton have played 5 games which included utd arsenil and bolton ! 3 teams from the top 6 . they have 3 points and its considered a complete dissaster .

liverpool have 6 points from 4 games of which only one team is atop 6 team and there season is a complete success apparently !! there is only one win between the two teams and that win was gotten at home v sunderland

but unlike liverpool fans we wont blame our injury list (10 first team players) for our problems .

Everton have lost 4 out of 5 games and played very crap (bar portsmouth i hear) in them all. Spurs and middlesboro are just as good if not better than bolton this year and spurs will finish ahead of bolton i reckon. Middlesboro BEAT Arsenal at the riverside too lets not forget where we should have won. Everton wil get thrashed at the riverside AND white heart lane dont worry about that!
I wouldnt blame your injury list either for your relegation form, id blame crap players, crap tactics, and crap manager

[anto1208]

Everton have lost 4 out of 5 games and played very crap (bar portsmouth i hear) in them all. Spurs and middlesboro are just as good if not better than bolton this year and spurs will finish ahead of bolton i reckon. Middlesboro BEAT Arsenal at the riverside too lets not forget where we should have won. Everton wil get thrashed at the riverside AND white heart lane dont worry about that!
I wouldnt blame your injury list either for your relegation form, id blame crap players, crap tactics, and crap manager

ill agree with the first 2 points ,tactics are terrible its this crap 451 system that every one is playing even liverpool utd chelsea etc etc ...

players have been poor i wont make excuses for them it costs me over a grand a year to go to the home games i want my money's worth from them


but moyes is the best british manager in england at the moment , if not the best in the prem .

they ll come good once we get our centre back our left back and our holding midfielder right winger and striker fit .thats a good chunk out of any team

[jockser]

We had debts last year of about €25 million, 30 million at most. Not unmanageable, and practically wiped out after last year's CL win. Then there is last season's 5th position money, the allocated close-season transfer budget, more money from this year's CL to come which can be budgeted for, CL win bonuses, player sales, and then you tell me that we're broke. We have money, but we don't spend it.

Crouch (7m), Sissoko (6m) and Reina (6m) total 19 million that not including the others brought in say another 3 million......THE NEW STADIUM COSTS, the 11 million paid of to Houllier and staff. You are so nieve have you the Liverpool account bookes or something?

Michael publicly rejected Newcastle, in order to clear the way for him to come to Anfield. The directors were prepared to personally fund the transfer, but Beni didn't want to know.

LOL oh so he rejected newcastle did he?WHO DOES HE PLAY FOR NOW? Im convinced you are 12 or less now!!! Have you Michael Owen dolls in your bedroom? Oh and by the board SANCTIONED 12 MILLION FOR OWEN NOT 17 MILLION thats why owen had to reject Newcastle WHICH HE DIDNT so AGAIN you are pulling these statements from your a**e

So what's happened? We have scored one goal so far this season, less than Wigan, West Ham, and Sunderland, with 5 strikers available!! Wtf is going on??

We have played 4 teams(2 less than everyone else) who will all finish in the top 6 or 7 (bar sunderland who we beat if we win those and beat chelsea next week we are 3 points behind them so again whats your point.

Ah, so we all refer to Leeds Utd, when ambitious clubs spend money. Cop out!

No it is no cop out coz you said we should spend like cheslea and i quote you.... "If you want the best players, you pay the asking price. That's what Chelsea did, so they're top now. We didn't, that's why we're 11th!" You see in the real world NOT championship manager you cannot do this UNLESS you have literally billions to spend. Chelsea are the only team that can do this.

United paid Leeds £30 million for Rio Ferdinand in July 2002. It was a crazy fee, but they paid it, and won the league that season. What harm did it do them? If you want the best, you pay the asking price. If you want to pay peanuts, you'll get monkeys.

What !!!!how childish is this comparison?!?! Manu dominated the league for 10 years when they bought Rio!!! They were NEVER outside the top 2 and bought Rio coz they could afford him and needed only to strenghen in that area. Liverpool have to strenghten in all areas. You arguments really are very sad indeed.Oh and we payed "peanuts" for Alonso Reina Sissoko Crouch Garcia Morientes.....all monkeys......

More crap!! Owen's new contract was being drawn up, when Beni took one look at him and threw him out. Owen didn't want to go, Real didn't want to sign him, but Beni got what he wanted, so we finished 5th, behind Everton.

Im sorry it is NOT crap....owen DID decide to leave in February.

I am allowing for the injury list, but we finished 3 points behind 4th, now how many points for one win? Ah yes, 3 points. One more win would have got us 4th. Now ordinarily, who would we have turned to to win that one solitary match? Guess who?

Again your Michael Owen infatuation is a bit worrying. This is your most pathetic arguement yet!We had a poor league season due to the reason i mention not coz Micheal owen was not there.....did Michael Owen win us the champions league too?

You will notice that I am concentrating on league results here. The league is more important, than the CL.

Yes you are concentrating on the league coz you know if we bring the CL into it your arguements look even more pathetic. I am talking about LFC in all competitions and judging them on a whole season with performances in ALL compitions

But if you insist, I ask you whose goals got us into last year's CL, the season before? No prizes for guessing, obviously.

yes thats right michael owen scored all the goals and saved all the penalties

You call that progress?? Would Chelsea? Would Arsenal? Don't think so.

It IS progress coz it is FACT we have more points playing the mentioned clubs than we had last year playing them. So is that not progress? It is FACT AND PROOF that we have progressed. So answer me this if our first 4 home games of the season were against the bottom 4 teams and we won all four and had maximum points you would see that as progres right?!?!?! .....sad

Spurs, perennially useless, will fall back to their customary 11th place soon enough,

they wont but because you seem unable to judge the quality of teams and cant see that

and with respect, we should be beating Middlesbrough, with 5 strikers to call from.

Middlesbrough BEAT Arsenal at home.......compare our draw then to that......progress? nah!!!! i didnt think so!!

League games Jockser, League games....

ALL games ALL performances ALL compitions mypost

We're NOT producing in the league, which is more important than the CL, and gives a more accurate picture of our long-term progression. Yeah, we're getting points, but we are not winning enough games. Do you expect us to live on that Sunderland win for the rest of the season?

Liverpool WILL finish with 15 to 20 points more than last season.....wana bet on that!!!?!??! You will see......it WILL be progress.....and i know you will STILL be whinging

[redgav]

ARSENAL: 2 EVERTON: 0
Gloating is not a character trait that anyone relishes, but Soccernet's Insider has been waiting for this moment and cannot resist the chance to revisit a subject so close to his heart.

Regular readers of this column may recall an article penned at Craven Cottage back in April, an afternoon when Everton covered themselves in ignominy with a hapless performance against Fulham. 'Not In Our Name' was the title of passage that sparked something of a revolution among Toffees fans who could barely comprehend what they read.

It was a moment when David Moyes' 'heroic' side were closing in on a top four finish, a Champions League place we were told a the time. With most observers hailing Everton's unlikely run of results as a 'romantic tale', it was somewhat controversial to go against the tide of euphoria by suggesting the Premiership would be better off if Moyes' men fell at the last.

'Before Everton fans get carried away with the idea of Bayern Munich and Barcelona coming to Goodison Park next season, they should consider a more probable scenario,' was the opening offering of this offensive script.

'While Toffees fans appear to be under the impression that they have a divine right to be playing Champions League football after finishing more than 30 points behind the Premiership leaders, the truth is they are a long way from claiming their place among the game's elite.'

The feature went on to outline the reasons why Everton finishing fourth would be bad for English football. Suggesting their feeble squad and negative tactics would be a bad advert for the Premiership and that they would basically make a fool of themselves in the Champions League qualifiers inspired a hail of abuse from bitter Scousers.

Soccernet's editor received dozens of emails demanding an apology for this outrageous slur, the feature was posted on Everton message boards, with the search to identify the man behind the mask of The Insider becoming something of a mission for those who swear loyalty to the blue shirt.

A few months on, and the words in that article have been harrowingly hammered home. I was right and you lot were wrong is the easy thing to say in response to those angry Scousers, but the truth is Everton's fluke fourth place finish was a sign of what lay ahead in this rapidly declining Premiership.

That Everton, Bolton and Middlesbrough are representing English football in European competition is proof that negative, long ball football is the route to success and the desperately disappointing start to this new season confirms the 'romantic' stories of last term have inspired a more deep rooted problem in the game.

Villarreal exposed Everton as little more than Champions League frauds, while their 5-1 thumping at the hands of Dinamo Bucharest in the UEFA Cup last week was confirmation that you can get lucky over a 38 game season. As predicted, they have been a pathetic embarrassment for English football on their return to European football and as they rolled into Highbury for this Premiership mismatch, their pride was about to take another dent.

The tactical genius who goes by the name of Moyes proved himself to be as ambitious as ever as he loaded his side with a striker who rarely scores, a five man midfield designed solely to keep the score down and a defence under order to fire the ball as far up the field as possible at every opportunity.

Playing with a lone striker is one thing, but when that man is the less than prolific Marcus Bent, you have a right to be worried. With ten men behind the ball every time Arsenal crossed the half-way line, this was another case of a Premiership manager playing for a 0-0 draw at all costs, though they were not even good enough to keep their hopes of a glorious draw alive for more than 26 minutes.

An early shot from Bent inspired wild excitement among the Everton fans, but it was a false dawn as by half-time, Sol Campbell had finished the game as a contest by heading two goals past a flaky defence.

Even without the injured Thierry Henry, Arsenal were able to use this game as little more than a glorified training session as while Everton have the fortune of playing in the same league as the Gunners, they may as well have been a non-league outfit merely here to enjoy their night out.

When Phil Neville and Matteo Ferrari had an on-pitch argument 10 minutes before the break, their miserable night was complete. Second best in every challenge, this was a side that looked beaten from the off and on this evidence, you fear for their very existence in this league.

There were a few moments of attacking intent and as Bent found himself in an off-side position after 19 minutes, he must have feared the worst. You wondered whether Moyes would revolt against his lonesome front man. What was he doing! Fine that man a week's wages. The Everton flat back 11 was well set until that point!

Moyes' solution to his problem was to throw Duncan Ferguson into the fray, a player who we are told epitomises the spirit of this club. Well, his arrival ensured a few London pigeons would be under threat as Everton opted for Plan B - launch the ball as high as possible and try and hit the 'big Scot'.

In Robin van Persie, Arsenal had a forward with more ability in his little finger than Bent or Ferguson boasts in their entire bodies and his performance may be a turning point for the young Dutchman at Highbury. Sent off here in the Champions League last week, his polished display in this game was impressive. He looks more like his compatriot Dennis Bergkamp with each passing week, there can be no greater compliment than that.

Freddie Ljungberg crashed an effort against the bar 20 minutes from time, but by this point Everton looked happy to keep the score down to just two. Still playing with eight or nine defenders until the closing moments, Moyes could hardly offer an excuse for his side's ineptitude as he confronted the press.

'We stopped them playing, stopped them creating too many chances, so that was something we can take from the game,' said Moyes, providing this article with the sort of quote that could not have been more apt if it were made up. 'After the week we had, Arsenal were probably the worst team we could have played as they are so dangerous going forward.

'The frustrating aspect of the evening was that we let ourselves down on the basics. We gave them too many free kicks in dangerous areas and defended poorly as we tried to keep them out.'

Thanks for that inspired assessment Moyesie. He went on: 'I never accept defeat, so I won't stand here now and say I'm happy that it was only 2-0, but I can take something from the second half showing. We asked the players to stand up and be counted and they did that for us, so we will move on and try to get a positive result from our next game.'

Arsene Wenger appeared bemused by Everton's lack of ambition, but negative tactics are not something the Arsenal manager understands. 'Everton didn't want to attack us in the second half,' he said in a quizzical Gallic voice, but Arsene is clearly missing the point of their tactical mastery.

Quite what Moyes was trying to accomplish here at Highbury is anyone's guess, but if 0-0 was the dream result then his team were desperately short of what they needed to batter the Premiership's reputation into submission once again.

Everton were woeful and if they finish fourth this season, I will walk naked from London to Liverpool next May. I'm confident my dignity will not come under too much threat.

Oh by the way Everton fans, direct all your complaints to newsdesk@soccernet.com - the Insider got a great giggle out of them last time.

[mypost]

We have played 4 teams(2 less than everyone else) who will all finish in the top 6 or 7 (bar sunderland who we beat if we win those and beat chelsea next week we are 3 points behind them so again whats your point.

We have just played, and only drawn against, a side who at full strength were beaten by Grimsby!! Fecin' Grimsby could beat them, but we can't!

Im sorry it is NOT crap....owen DID decide to leave in February. Again your Michael Owen infatuation is a bit worrying. We had a poor league season due to the reason i mention not coz Micheal owen was not there,

Oh yes it is crap, Michael Owen DID NOT decide to leave at the time of year stated above. Obviously true, or else he would have left sooner than he was told to.

I don't have any infatuation with Michael Owen, it's just that I don't like key players being sold for the fun of it, deprive us of a 20+ goal a season striker, which then promptly wrecks our season. That's not infatuation, they are well-founded grounds for concern regarding the overall health of the club.

Yes you are concentrating on the league coz you know if we bring the CL into it your arguements look even more pathetic. I am talking about LFC in all competitions and judging them on a whole season with performances in ALL compitions. It IS progress coz it is FACT we have more points playing the mentioned clubs than we had last year playing them. So is that not progress? It is FACT AND PROOF that we have progressed.

Fair enough, we won the CL. But in the league, our bread-and-butter, the overall report is not good enough, irrespective of injuries, we should be doing better than we are. If you want to focus on how wonderful we were in one competition, that's fine, but all it does is paper over the cracks. We are showing our true colours in the league, and the lack of goals, lack of good results, and current league position say that we are not currently performing to our potential. How in the name of sweet Jaysus, can a side with 5 strikers available, manage to score only one goal in 4 games?? It's even more worrying, when some people pass that off as progress. If it was one of our rivals, we'd be pising ourselves laughing at their misfortune. With those resources at our disposal, up against at best, mediocre opposition, we should be scoring at will.

I'm not going to comment on, "look it's great, we got a point here and there", because over the season, we will drop points against teams we beat last season, so it will even itself out over time.

So answer me this if our first 4 home games of the season were against the bottom 4 teams and we won all four and had maximum points you would see that as progres right?!?!?! .sad

You seem to think that beating the bottom team 1-0 at home, aided by 3 goalless draws, and being 11th is progress. Well, it's not progress to me, it's stagnation. Meanwhile, the gap to first place grows and grows, with each passing week.

you seem unable to judge the quality of teams and cant see that

As stated above, we have merely drawn against a side at full strength, beaten by minnows Grimsby 10 days later. Spurs are sh-it, they will suffer more of the same results, and currently lie 8th in the league, heading for their annual 11th place. Middlesbrough lie 9th, Sunderland lie 20th. Quality? You're having a laugh.

Middlesbrough BEAT Arsenal at home.......compare our draw then to that......progress?

Yeah, I will. We got a draw at a team, who were beaten by Chelsea on their own pitch,...again. They're the games you need to win to succeed, not merely draw.

Liverpool WILL finish with 15 to 20 points more than last season.....wana bet on that!!!?!??! You will see......it WILL be progress.....and i know you will STILL be whinging

At this rate, we will be doing well to score 15 or 20 goals by December, and as we only have 6 points now, we will be doing well to reach last season's total, the way things are going. Results better improve pronto, or we'll find ourselves with too much to do,...again.

[jockser]

youre a header kid!!!! youre arguments are too silly for me to reply to anymore

[anto1208]

youre a header kid!!!! youre arguments are too silly for me to reply to anymore

even i agree with you on this one !!

[jockser]

Best coach in Europe to stay.....feck
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drill...50921-1426.htm

[mypost]

youre a header kid!!!! youre arguments are too silly for me to reply to anymore

So, you admit you lost the argument then??

[4tothefloor]

I could do a quote by quote reply to mypost's reply to mine, but I just couldn't be arsed because it'd take too long Instead I'll just make the following observations;
1. You love Michael Owen and you're very pi$$ed off that he isn't back at Liverpool.
2. You DO have an agenda against Benitez, probably because of the first point above.
3. You're delusional because you've just compared us to Real Madrid, AC Milan and Chelsea. Clubs who regularly win their domestic title (Chelsea aside, but not for long), and clubs who have potloads of money regardless of how they perform. In case you haven't noticed, we haven't won the title in 15 years.....yet we should all of a sudden expect to have the same mentality as the aforementioned clubs? :We barely finished above Spurs last season, yet now they are supposed to be mere fodder to us? That's just ridiculous, you're understanding of rebuilding is certainly different to mine . Forget about the CL victory. Winning the league requires a different mentality and that is what Benitez is working towards.

We will know more when Liverpool play the lesser sides. I consider Spurs and Boro away as the two toughest away games aside from the top 3 and the derby against Everton. Utd at home again is one of the toughest games of the season. I think four clean sheets is impressive against these sides, lets see if the goals will flow in the next few weeks. Having said that, I'd take another 0-0 against Chelsea no problem.

[redgav]

good post -

Its gonna take till january before we see benitez get in the players we need in key areas - CB,RW and up front but the signs are good

owen made his bed and I for one am glad we didn't pander to him ....if he had treated madrid the same way he had treated Liverpool he wouldn't be twiddling his thumbs in barcode land ...instead he showed what really means more to him and decide to jump for the barcodes to safe guard his eng ur land place
Forced to Sell a guy brought thru the ranks for 8 mill and being held to ransom 12 months of bench sitting later for double the price ...thanks be to F that theres still fools like the barcodes around

[4tothefloor]

...thanks be to F that theres still fools like the barcodes around

That's what you get when you put Freddy Shepard and Graeme Souness together. The fun hasn't even started yet though. Souness WILL be sacked. Even a blind man could see that it's Alan Shearers job in all but name already. Owen will also leave next season, that is if he performs well and attracts interest at £12m. I can still see him ending up at Liverpool, Utd or Arsenal - with the latter two there's no guarantee that Van Horseface or Henry will remain at their current clubs beyond next season

[redgav]

That's what you get when you put Freddy Shepard and Graeme Souness together. The fun hasn't even started yet though. Souness WILL be sacked. Even a blind man could see that it's Alan Shearers job in all but name already. Owen will also leave next season, that is if he performs well and attracts interest at £12m. I can still see him ending up at Liverpool, Utd or Arsenal - with the latter two there's no guarantee that Van Horseface or Henry will remain at their current clubs beyond next season

I've no respect for barcodes ..in all fairness ,what better sign can you give that you are a small time club than havin 20,000 pay in to see a bloodty transfer signing ?!?!?!!?

He'll leave em in the summer as soon as anyone big comes in , not sure now If liverpool ever will approach him again after this ...thats the second time he's faffed about now ...Rafa was trying to playhard ball with madrid ,and if owen hadn't been so worried about his eng gurland place ,real would have caved in and he's be at anfield now ,instead he panicked and ran to shearer and co
Lot of hard core lads are finished with him after that and any support he did have has all but dwindled to the You'reonskysports/newstalk mobs

Should be a interesting January for the redmen tho , Benitez has really cracked the whip with transfer negotioations ....can't wait till this portugese lad signs and we get a visa for the other south american fella

[jockser]

shhhh lads jaysus dont let "you know who" read such blasphomy about michael owen!!!!

[mypost]

I could do a quote by quote reply to mypost's reply to mine, but I just couldn't be arsed because it'd take too long

Nah, couldn't keep up, more like!!

You're delusional because you've just compared us to Real Madrid, AC Milan and Chelsea. Clubs who regularly win their domestic title (Chelsea aside, but not for long), and clubs who have potloads of money regardless of how they perform. In case you haven't noticed, we haven't won the title in 15 years.....yet we should all of a sudden expect to have the same mentality as the aforementioned clubs?

Delusional?

We are European Champions. European Champions should be in contention for every competition they enter, and every effort should be made so that we can challenge for every trophy available, be it the League Championship, or League Cup. With our talent, money spent, and resources available, it is not unrealistic for us to expect to challenge for trophies, and possess a winning mentality. I feel that in general, this is not happening. Our domestic results prove it. 1st place is for winners, 2nd place and below, is for also-rans.

I think four clean sheets is impressive against these sides, lets see if the goals will flow in the next few weeks. Having said that, I'd take another 0-0 against Chelsea no problem.

More negativity. We've dropped enough points already, we need to start getting 3 points. It shows how far we have fallen domestically, that we're happy with getting 0-0 draws at home. Wonder who's fault that is?

[razor]

Reina was completely to blame for the one point donation to Birmingham on Saturday, at fault for both goals. Carson may get a re call.
Everton had enough chances to draw with Wigan but are looking a very poor team at the moment and are currently propping up the Premiership.

[declan hide]

FOR ANTO

Team Pld Pts
1. Chelsea 7 21
2. Charlton 6 15
3. Bolton 7 14
4. West Ham 6 11
5. Man United 6 11
6. Man City 7 11
7. Arsenal 6 10
8. Wigan 6 10
9. Tottenham 6 9
10. Newcastle 7 8
11. Middlesbro 7 8
12. Blackburn 7 8
13. Liverpool 5 7
14. Birmingham 7 6
15. A Villa 7 6
16. Fulham 6 5
17. Portsmouth 7 5
18. West Brom 7 5
19. Sunderland 7 4
20. Everton 6 3


and thrice

and i hope you were over at it as well!

[redgav]

Reina was completely to blame for the one point donation to Birmingham on Saturday, at fault for both goals. Carson may get a re call.
Everton had enough chances to draw with Wigan but are looking a very poor team at the moment and are currently propping up the Premiership.

To counter that tho , that shot he saved with his legs ,theres no way dudek or kirkland wopuld have made it
Jury is still out on him for me , some games he makes a blooper (that hasn't really cost yet) and then follows it up with a stunning save (a la Betis) and to be fair , those were the first goals conceded in the league this season !!!!


On a funnier point ...a few snippets from our bitter blew neighbours

afetr the Uefa cup hammering ,Gollum( moyes) was pinned to the wall by tampon man( ferguson) over a argument caused by gollum not putting in the tampon man earlier (apparently he'd been warming up for 20 mins) ...now seems from reports that gollum has lost the dressing room
Also Everton have released a nw version of their "catchy" t-shirt range

New Everton t-shirt

[anto1208]

To counter that tho , that shot he saved with his legs ,theres no way dudek or kirkland wopuld have made it
Jury is still out on him for me , some games he makes a blooper (that hasn't really cost yet) and then follows it up with a stunning save (a la Betis) and to be fair , those were the first goals conceded in the league this season !!!!


On a funnier point ...a few snippets from our bitter blew neighbours

afetr the Uefa cup hammering ,Gollum( moyes) was pinned to the wall by tampon man( ferguson) over a argument caused by gollum not putting in the tampon man earlier (apparently he'd been warming up for 20 mins) ...now seems from reports that gollum has lost the dressing room
Also Everton have released a nw version of their "catchy" t-shirt range

New Everton t-shirt

what utter rubbish if dunc had done that he'd be shown the door the next day . moyes doesnt stand for that kinda thing he is the boss every one knows that , if there was a shred of truth in that the fans would have dunc kicked out of the club ,everton ledgend or not moyes has the total support of every fan