Everton and Liverpool discussion

[anto1208]

Kirby gets a big no from me. Here is the brochure that the KEIOC have produced showing that Goodison can be redeveloped.

http://www.keioc.net/uploads///Files...dison_Park.pdf

29 Pages of detail and drawings. What did the club give us? a couple of fancy pictures that showed no detail whatsoever and some made up figures that they couldn't back up.

Fair enough, there are still issues about how this would be funded but once again Kenwright and Wyness have been shown up for the liars that they are.

They said that there was no plan B. LIE!! KEIOC even have a plan C

They said Goodison Park couldn't be redeveloped. LIE!!!

A no vote is the only hope that we have of getting these muppets out of our club. They have said there is no plan B so there is nowhere for them to go other than through the exit door when these results come through. They are ripping our club apart. We've blown another chance this summer to really progress because of the quite pathetic management of these two clowns.

Kenwright and Wyness - GO NOW!!!

Where do i start with that

You do know who KEIOC are dont you , it is made up of bussiness men that have bussiness's around Goodison and will loose money if Everton move that is the only reason they want Everton to stay . its not for the good of the club its for the good of there pocket . KEIOC dont care if they send the club into millions of £'s debt as long as it doesnt effect there own pockets .

KEIOC showed footage of football voilence involving Everton and Utd fans to Kirby locals so they would reject the move . thats good isnt it blacken the name of the club . What lenghts will they go to to protect there income .

Thats not 29 pages of details and drawings its 29 pages of mainly filler and nonsense , with a bunch of mistruths and a few crappy sketches .

The club have never said Goodison cant be redeveloped again your being mislead they said its not viable . for a number of reasons
Mainly cost
then you have the loss of seats ( you cant knock and rebuild the park end in the summer its not possible ) imagine when you get to knocking the main stand where are all those people going to go ?

when you consider the cost the time scale the loss of seating for season ticket holders the disruption to the local community if you have ever been to goodison you know how tight it is around there to build that Ugly looking stadium that will even make liverpools new terminal to john lennon airport look good .

Now on to the actual footprint and getting planning permission i notice the stands are built on top of roads and houses mainly Bullens road so thats a no go , the stands are increasing in height thats a no go also

Now while im furious at the lack of transfer funds ( 3mill spent this summer imagine how little we will have if we have to pay 150-200 mill to rebuild goodison compared to the 50 mill for kirby ??) there is no way ill support anything KEIOC promote not after there antics in Kirby and definetly not after there antics before the game on tuesday night they are an utter disscrace how any fan can support there idea's is beyond me.

Stop with all this Billy liar crap it makes you sound about 12 .

[KildareFan]

Where do i start with that

You do know who KEIOC are dont you , it is made up of bussiness men that have bussiness's around Goodison and will loose money if Everton move that is the only reason they want Everton to stay . its not for the good of the club its for the good of there pocket . KEIOC dont care if they send the club into millions of £'s debt as long as it doesnt effect there own pockets .

KEIOC showed footage of football voilence involving Everton and Utd fans to Kirby locals so they would reject the move . thats good isnt it blacken the name of the club . What lenghts will they go to to protect there income .

Thats not 29 pages of details and drawings its 29 pages of mainly filler and nonsense , with a bunch of mistruths and a few crappy sketches .

The club have never said Goodison cant be redeveloped again your being mislead they said its not viable . for a number of reasons
Mainly cost
then you have the loss of seats ( you cant knock and rebuild the park end in the summer its not possible ) imagine when you get to knocking the main stand where are all those people going to go ?

when you consider the cost the time scale the loss of seating for season ticket holders the disruption to the local community if you have ever been to goodison you know how tight it is around there to build that Ugly looking stadium that will even make liverpools new terminal to john lennon airport look good .

Now on to the actual footprint and getting planning permission i notice the stands are built on top of roads and houses mainly Bullens road so thats a no go , the stands are increasing in height thats a no go also

Now while im furious at the lack of transfer funds ( 3mill spent this summer ) there is no way ill support anything KEIOC promote not after there antics in Kirby and definetly not after there antics before the game on tueday night they are an utter disscrace how any fan can support there idea's is beyond me

I agree about the tapes that were shown and I think everybody agrees that was a mistake but the club have released plenty of spin too.


I genuinely wanted to want to move to Kirby but the club have made it impossible. I wanted Everton to come out with something of the detail that the KEIOC went into and really tell us why moving to Kirby would be the best thing for the club. But they didn't, the pictures they released are pathetic, the figures that they have plucked out of the air without any backup are pathetic. They told us it's the only option and that's just a blatent lie. It's the only option that suits Kenwright and Wyness.

Wyness has said there is no plan B but if the fans vote no, then they said that a no vote is binding and that will be the end of the Kirby project but he he also said that Goodison Park is basically falling down and could struggle to get a safety cert within 10 years.

So, just suppose the results return a no vote, we then have no Kirby and no plan B and Goodison is falling down? Where are we then? What sort of a position does that leave the club in then? The guys running our club are amateurs.

Witness the pathetic support given to Moyes again this summer. We blew a great chance to build from a good platform 2 years ago and we are doing the same again this year.

Let's face it, we are never going to go anywhere as long as Kenwright and Wyness are in charge and a no vote is the only chance we have of getting rid of them.

[anto1208]

I agree about the tapes that were shown and I think everybody agrees that was a mistake but the club have released plenty of spin too.


I genuinely wanted to want to move to Kirby but the club have made it impossible. I wanted Everton to come out with something of the detail that the KEIOC went into and really tell us why moving to Kirby would be the best thing for the club. But they didn't, the pictures they released are pathetic, the figures that they have plucked out of the air without any backup are pathetic. They told us it's the only option and that's just a blatent lie. It's the only option that suits Kenwright and Wyness.

Wyness has said there is no plan B but if the fans vote no, then they said that a no vote is binding and that will be the end of the Kirby project but he he also said that Goodison Park is basically falling down and could struggle to get a safety cert within 10 years.

So, just suppose the results return a no vote, we then have no Kirby and no plan B and Goodison is falling down? Where are we then? What sort of a position does that leave the club in then? The guys running our club are amateurs.

Witness the pathetic support given to Moyes again this summer. We blew a great chance to build from a good platform 2 years ago and we are doing the same again this year.

Let's face it, we are never going to go anywhere as long as Kenwright and Wyness are in charge and a no vote is the only chance we have of getting rid of them.

So what would make the club seem more attractive to investors , having a club with a run down stadium , a club with a massive debt after rebuilding goodison or a club with a brand new state of the art stadium with hardly no debt ?

Think about it Keith gets a wage it doesnt matter to him if we sell or not .

the people that say Bill is in it for the money ( despite him never making any money from the club ) forget that if bill does make money from selling the club we win as well . The same people that say Bill is putting off investors normally are the same people that say bill is going to sell the club ( to a new investor ) and make a killing !! is that not what they want .

I dont know why people are getting hung up on this magical investor anyway you know they cant just give the club money thats called money laundering and is against the law , they can secure loans taken out by the club in the clubs name and if they **** off the debt is left with the club . Then you get the investor like at hearts ( check how many players are now from his home country ) who sacks manager after manager and turns it into his own game of real life football manager.

The board have backed moyes look at last summer AJ lescott etc, this year they signing artetta and cahill on 5 year deals .

I forgot howard was signed this year aswell 3 mill , 3 mill for jags and it looks possible 6 mill on baines but we ll wait and see ( that would be 12mill ) . the facts are we dont know how much money we have we dont know who we are bidding on etc to say the board arent giving moyes money is an assumption at best . i am worried that we are going into the season with only 1 striker and he is injury prone i would have liked smith fingers crossed beattie fecks off and we get him but i dont think we will

[KildareFan]

So what would make the club seem more attractive to investors , having a club with a run down stadium , a club with a massive debt after rebuilding goodison or a club with a brand new state of the art stadium with hardly no debt ?

Think about it Keith gets a wage it doesnt matter to him if we sell or not .

the people that say Bill is in it for the money ( despite him never making any money from the club ) forget that if bill does make money from selling the club we win as well . The same people that say Bill is putting off investors normally are the same people that say bill is going to sell the club ( to a new investor ) and make a killing !! is that not what they want .

I dont know why people are getting hung up on this magical investor anyway you know they cant just give the club money thats called money laundering and is against the law , they can secure loans taken out by the club in the clubs name and if they **** off the debt is left with the club . Then you get the investor like at hearts ( check how many players are now from his home country ) who sacks manager after manager and turns it into his own game of real life football manager.

The board have backed moyes look at last summer AJ lescott etc, this year they signing artetta and cahill on 5 year deals .

I forgot howard was signed this year aswell 3 mill , 3 mill for jags and it looks possible 6 mill on baines but we ll wait and see ( that would be 12mill ) . the facts are we dont know how much money we have we dont know who we are bidding on etc to say the board arent giving moyes money is an assumption at best . i am worried that we are going into the season with only 1 striker and he is injury prone i would have liked smith fingers crossed beattie fecks off and we get him but i dont think we will

A new stadium does not necessarily mean a state of the art stadium. There is a world of difference.

Fair enough, the board backed moyes last year but that was money borrowed on the strength of the telly money this year, why do you think we're the only premiership team who has no money to spend? In five yeas, Moyes has had something like 9m net to spend so don't tell me that the board have backed him.

We had a very real chance to put pressure on the top 4 this season, we have one of the best defences in the league and i firmly believe one of the best managers but because of an inept board, we are going nowhere. We let Fernandes go when he should have been snapped up straight away. Even if he cost 12m, he will be worth twice that in 2-3 years, it just looks like we have no ambition.

This is the same board who lied through their teeth to their own shareholders at the club's AGM regarding the Fortress Fund. If they were any sort of men, the board would have resigned after they ballsed up the Kings Dock project, they certainly should have been made to resign over the Fortress fund and hopefully a no vote to Kirby will surely be the end of them.

That's slightly off the point, the point is that we shouldn't be moving to Kirby just because it's the cheapest option. What was the point of the "exclusivity period" , surely a club making the most important decision of it's entire history would want to talk to every interested party? Why did they only want the Kirby/tesco option? because it's the only way that kenwright and wyness could keep control of the club.

[anto1208]

A new stadium does not necessarily mean a state of the art stadium. There is a world of difference.

Fair enough, the board backed moyes last year but that was money borrowed on the strength of the telly money this year, why do you think we're the only premiership team who has no money to spend? In five yeas, Moyes has had something like 9m net to spend so don't tell me that the board have backed him.

We had a very real chance to put pressure on the top 4 this season, we have one of the best defences in the league and i firmly believe one of the best managers but because of an inept board, we are going nowhere. We let Fernandes go when he should have been snapped up straight away. Even if he cost 12m, he will be worth twice that in 2-3 years, it just looks like we have no ambition.

This is the same board who lied through their teeth to their own shareholders at the club's AGM regarding the Fortress Fund. If they were any sort of men, the board would have resigned after they ballsed up the Kings Dock project, they certainly should have been made to resign over the Fortress fund and hopefully a no vote to Kirby will surely be the end of them.

That's slightly off the point, the point is that we shouldn't be moving to Kirby just because it's the cheapest option. What was the point of the "exclusivity period" , surely a club making the most important decision of it's entire history would want to talk to every interested party? Why did they only want the Kirby/tesco option? because it's the only way that kenwright and wyness could keep control of the club.

Lets be realistic here we have no chance of putting pressure on the top 4 .

The club is going no where ?? in 5 years we have gone a bottom 5 club to a top 6 club !!!!

the best defence was bought by moyes with money from ??? you guessed it ..the board

Fernades was nt worth 12 mill maybe 6 he was good but went missing for huge chunks of the games . If he was that good some one would have snapped him up by now .

The failure of the fortress fund was the funds fault they didnt meet the deadlines again your jumping to wild assumptions that the board lied when they didnt .

We arent thinking of moving because its the cheapest its because its the smartest , you seem to forget the 7 years of dealing with the LCC about new grounds that where fruitless .Knowsley council wanted the exclusive deal not the board who are sick of talking to LCC about it .

Again Wyness is an employee its like sayign its the only way arteta can keep control of the club .

I dont see the problem moving to knowsley do the people that consider it "not liverpool" also consider Stubbs Gerrard and Jamie Carragher not scousers . if thats the case between the two clubs there is only one player from liverpool and thats Hibbert

[KildareFan]

Lets be realistic here we have no chance of putting pressure on the top 4 .

The club is going no where ?? in 5 years we have gone a bottom 5 club to a top 6 club !!!!

the best defence was bought by moyes with money from ??? you guessed it ..the board

Fernades was nt worth 12 mill maybe 6 he was good but went missing for huge chunks of the games . If he was that good some one would have snapped him up by now .

The failure of the fortress fund was the funds fault they didnt meet the deadlines again your jumping to wild assumptions that the board lied when they didnt .

We arent thinking of moving because its the cheapest its because its the smartest , you seem to forget the 7 years of dealing with the LCC about new grounds that where fruitless .Knowsley council wanted the exclusive deal not the board who are sick of talking to LCC about it .

Again Wyness is an employee its like sayign its the only way arteta can keep control of the club .

I dont see the problem moving to knowsley do the people that consider it "not liverpool" also consider Stubbs Gerrard and Jamie Carragher not scousers . if thats the case between the two clubs there is only one player from liverpool and thats Hibbert

Whether Kirby is in liverpool city or not would be of no concern to me if it was the right move.

Why have we no chance of getting into the top 4? with a bit more luck and a bigger squad last year, we could have put real pressure on Arsenal. We certainly have no chance of getting into the top 4 if we only spend 3m net during the summer. The top 4 isn't our concern next year after this summer, we have to be concerned with likes of newcastle, west ham, villa, porsmouth and city passing us by. With the injuries to Cahill and Vaughan and not signing Fernandes, our squad is actually weaker going into the start of the season than it was at the end of last year.

Come on now, of the defence last year, hibbert and Stubbs cost nothing for a start. Any money we have spent is just money that we have made back from transfers. 9m net over 5 years is a joke. i read somewhere a few years back that the club budgets to finish 4th from bottom so then whenever we finish above that we should be up money. So we should have money from finsihing 4th, 6th and 7th. What about all the new television money? We have 35,000 at every home game. Where is all the money going? cos it's not going on players, I'll say it again 9m net over the space of 5 years??!?!? Thank God for Moyes is all I can say cos God knows where we would be without him

[anto1208]

Whether Kirby is in liverpool city or not would be of no concern to me if it was the right move.

Why have we no chance of getting into the top 4? with a bit more luck and a bigger squad last year, we could have put real pressure on Arsenal. We certainly have no chance of getting into the top 4 if we only spend 3m net during the summer. The top 4 isn't our concern next year after this summer, we have to be concerned with likes of newcastle, west ham, villa, porsmouth and city passing us by. With the injuries to Cahill and Vaughan and not signing Fernandes, our squad is actually weaker going into the start of the season than it was at the end of last year.

Come on now, of the defence last year, hibbert and Stubbs cost nothing for a start. Any money we have spent is just money that we have made back from transfers. 9m net over 5 years is a joke. i read somewhere a few years back that the club budgets to finish 4th from bottom so then whenever we finish above that we should be up money. So we should have money from finsihing 4th, 6th and 7th. What about all the new television money? We have 35,000 at every home game. Where is all the money going? cos it's not going on players, I'll say it again 9m net over the space of 5 years??!?!? Thank God for Moyes is all I can say cos God knows where we would be without him

Its actually quite expensive to run a club and ticket prices at everton are about half of the cost of clubs like spurs .

for example if you sell out a 40,000 seater stadium for 20 games a year at £30 a ticket its 24mill
to employ 22 players on an average of 20 g a season is about 23 mill .

Remember Cahill and Vaughan & hibbert & nuno ( well all our left backs ) where injured for lots of last year and fernandes only played 4 or 5 games towards the end . the players that left never really figured and Jags and pinaar are good buys . Id like more but we arent any weaker than last year . Newcastle etc allways spend big yet do nothing . Pompy could be a force but it will be more or less the same few teams battling for the 5th & 6th spots with west ham making an apearence id say . Remember bar a terrible ref we should have beaten chelsea and finished 5th on the last day of the season and we have slightly improved on that team .VDM is fit now

[KildareFan]

Ah come off it, if we're relying on VDM, we are in big trouble. He has spent his summer playing with the reserves against Stirling Albion and Kendall Town. He was rumoured to be offered to wigan as part of the Baines deal but even they wouldn't take him.

To be honest, I'm not worried about our first choice 11, if we could field that every game with every player at 100%, we would definitely push for top 4 but that's not going to happen. Hopefully we are going to have a good run in the UEFA cup which could be another 10 games. Vaughan and Cahill are out already, god help us if AJ, Arteta or Howard suffer a bad injury. Our squad was small last season for the amount of games that we played, how will the players cope with extra games next season?

It's not all doom and gloom because we have an excellent manager and players like arteta, lescott, cahill, vaughan, yobo and johnson that any manger in the league would like but that's why it is so frustrating, with just a little more investment we could be on the verge of actaully winning a few things.

But I'm totally against that ground move

[anto1208]

Ah come off it, if we're relying on VDM, we are in big trouble. He has spent his summer playing with the reserves against Stirling Albion and Kendall Town. He was rumoured to be offered to wigan as part of the Baines deal but even they wouldn't take him.

To be honest, I'm not worried about our first choice 11, if we could field that every game with every player at 100%, we would definitely push for top 4 but that's not going to happen. Hopefully we are going to have a good run in the UEFA cup which could be another 10 games. Vaughan and Cahill are out already, god help us if AJ, Arteta or Howard suffer a bad injury. Our squad was small last season for the amount of games that we played, how will the players cope with extra games next season?

It's not all doom and gloom because we have an excellent manager and players like arteta, lescott, cahill, vaughan, yobo and johnson that any manger in the league would like but that's why it is so frustrating, with just a little more investment we could be on the verge of actaully winning a few things.

But I'm totally against that ground move

VDM played the first two first team friendlies then stayed in the UK to play in a further two reserve games when the squad went to the USA ( beacause his daughter is critically ill in hospital he is spending every night sleeping in the hospital and didnt want to leave her to go to the USA ) he has played 4 90 min matches now more than any other player what are they doing getting him fit for an other club ?? Im not relying on him but he will help

So let me get this right you are against a ground move that would give us an extra 10 mill in the transfer fund each year yet your complaining about not having enough to spend

[KildareFan]

VDM played the first two first team friendlies then stayed in the UK to play in a further two reserve games when the squad went to the USA ( beacause his daughter is critically ill in hospital he is spending every night sleeping in the hospital and didnt want to leave her to go to the USA ) he has played 4 90 min matches now more than any other player what are they doing getting him fit for an other club ?? Im not relying on him but he will help

So let me get this right you are against a ground move that would give us an extra 10 mill in the transfer fund each year yet your complaining about not having enough to spend

where did you get that 10m figure from? cos wyness said it? If the KEIOC said that staying at Goodison would earn us an extra 20m a year to spend on players, would you believe that? If Wyness said we're going to make an 10m a year cos of x y and z then fair enough but he didn't and that is my main problem with the ground move. The club produced a 5 page leaflet that will be sent out with the ballot papers but it's mostly just pictures and flashy graphics. If Kirby really is going to generate that money each year, tell us how.

This is a quote from Wyness in an interview on the bluekipper site

"MBE: So what will be Everton’s total contribution to the construction costs of the stadium?

KW: It will be the difference between the fifty million and the increased value I have already mentioned. If the difference was twenty-five million, then we would have to find that figure. And that would be funded from the sale of Goodison and stadium naming rights – if there was a difference between what that raised we would have to take on additional debt to cover it."

You keep saying that the debt will be minimum but here Wyness admits that if costs spiral so to will our. How can he say that this is the "deal of the century" when he still doesn't know the final cost to everton?

[anto1208]

where did you get that 10m figure from? cos wyness said it? If the KEIOC said that staying at Goodison would earn us an extra 20m a year to spend on players, would you believe that? If Wyness said we're going to make an 10m a year cos of x y and z then fair enough but he didn't and that is my main problem with the ground move. The club produced a 5 page leaflet that will be sent out with the ballot papers but it's mostly just pictures and flashy graphics. If Kirby really is going to generate that money each year, tell us how.

This is a quote from Wyness in an interview on the bluekipper site

"MBE: So what will be Everton’s total contribution to the construction costs of the stadium?

KW: It will be the difference between the fifty million and the increased value I have already mentioned. If the difference was twenty-five million, then we would have to find that figure. And that would be funded from the sale of Goodison and stadium naming rights – if there was a difference between what that raised we would have to take on additional debt to cover it."

You keep saying that the debt will be minimum but here Wyness admits that if costs spiral so to will our. How can he say that this is the "deal of the century" when he still doesn't know the final cost to everton?

ITs impossible to guess the final cost he knows that if he says 50 mill and it goes to 60 mill he ll get accussed of all sorts . Something of this size can be estimated that is what he has done he doesnt know what the contruction fitting out etc costs will be in 3 years .

The extra money will come from the increased revenue generated from the stadium mainly from the extra coporate boxes .

[anto1208]

Beattie is gone to sheffield utd 4mill signed a 4 year deal

[4tothefloor]

While you lads play tennis over Everton's, whichever way you look at it, ****e stadium, I found this nugget on rawk

Everton are giving away free season tickets with mobile phones http://www.evertonfc.com/mobile/

And they're looking to build a 55,000 seater. For who? LMFAO

[anto1208]

what a deal a free season ticket the contract only costs you £660 a year

Baines sould sign today 6mill having his medical at the moment , But i dont know where the 11 mill is after coming from for Gonzalez and why Moyes is spending 20 + mill on defence and midfield ( and Vogel deal still may happen )when we badly need a striker .Fingers crossed he has someone in mind Now he is back to work after last week off because of his mum passing away .

[anto1208]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...79&ito=newsnow

Everton had an £11mill bid turned down for Gonzalez who resigned so will now turn to Fernandes and YAkubu

[4tothefloor]

also found this gem

While we're at it, here's an absolute corker

[KildareFan]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...79&ito=newsnow

Everton had an £11mill bid turned down for Gonzalez who resigned so will now turn to Fernandes and YAkubu

HHHHmmmmm strange that the week that the voting ballots are sent out we suddenly start getting linked with multi million pund deal. The cynic in me thinks that the two might just be related. There will be a lot of disgruntled fans if everton don't spend big money between now and the end of August after these stories.

Please let the Fernandes story be true though!!

[anto1208]

HHHHmmmmm strange that the week that the voting ballots are sent out we suddenly start getting linked with multi million pund deal. The cynic in me thinks that the two might just be related. There will be a lot of disgruntled fans if everton don't spend big money between now and the end of August after these stories.

Please let the Fernandes story be true though!!

I was thinking the same will this turn out to be yet another Smith owen rocky dennis ( all though owen was a crock and dennis was a 11mill flop at liverpool ) etc bid where they bid big on players just below the asking price and then when they dont get them the money is "put" aside for xmas then dissapears . Im in the same boat as you ive been a blue for so long now ill only believe it when i see them on the pitch . but fingers crossed i think the fernandes story has legs .

I feel they have to spend big to convince people that moving ground wont affect our transfer fund .

[reder]

Everton manager David Moyes is set to capture Middlesbrough striker Yakubu and Portuguese playmaker Manuel Fernandes for up to £19m.

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This is from the BBC rumours today, and reading around i think "set to capture" is quite the overstatement given your recent transfer activity.

Regarding Fernandes, questions must be asked of any player who can't cut it at Portsmouth.

Yakubu on the other hand, would be an ideal striker for your "welly it" brand of football and could prove to be quite a coup. That is of course, if Boro accept your offer of 10 grams of jelly babies and a large white chocolate Toblerone.

[KildareFan]

Everton manager David Moyes is set to capture Middlesbrough striker Yakubu and Portuguese playmaker Manuel Fernandes for up to £19m.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is from the BBC rumours today, and reading around i think "set to capture" is quite the overstatement given your recent transfer activity.

Regarding Fernandes, questions must be asked of any player who can't cut it at Portsmouth.

Yakubu on the other hand, would be an ideal striker for your "welly it" brand of football and could prove to be quite a coup. That is of course, if Boro accept your offer of 10 grams of jelly babies and a large white chocolate Toblerone.

How can you get so many things wrong in such a short posting?

1. Fernandes had a clause in his portsmouth loan deal saying that if he played 3 games in a row, they had to buy him for 12m so he never got a run in the side - not that he didn't cut it as you say. Did you see him play? does he really look like a player that couldn't cut it at portsmouth?

2. Welly it brand of football????? are you serious? Johnson is five foot nothing, what would be the point of wellying it up to him? Are arteta, fernandes, cahill, Pienaar, wellying it kind of players? Did you see everton play last year? More to the point, did you see liverpool? now that is real "wellying it" football

3. What's wrong with our recent transfer activity? Maybe we should follow Liverool's lead and get our lawyers to try and force through a move for Gonzalez now that Porto have turned down our 11m bid. Just because we refused to pay over the odds for average players like koumas, richardson and smith doesn't mean there is anything wrong with our transfer activity.

4. It wasn't so long ago that liverpool's manager was crying to anybody who would listen to him that he hadn't got the money to spend that he wanted. If you want to go through moyes signings and benitez' i think you'll see which club has got better value for their signings. (I'm well aware of beattie, davies and kroldrup but Moyes good signings far outweigh those 3)