Am I the only one searcing for a silver lining and think that Roy is made for Intl football in the management sense?
I have a feeling MON will step aside, his retirement fund boosted, but leaving his pals Walford and Guppy stranded. Keane will step into the breach, bringing a less direct style of football to the fray.
I hear Limerick radio (so it must be true) were talking about Keane and O'Neill being at odds with each other over the way we play. My source is impeccable, a Limerick-born bloke who lives over here and who still keeps in touch with local Limerick radio.
Am I the only one searcing for a silver lining and think that Roy is made for Intl football in the management sense?
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
Because he's less likely to fall out with everybody when he only sees them every couple of months?
If not being able to play without fear is a problem, I don't think Keane is the solution.
Depends on how you define fear!
We need a manager that stays beneath the parapit, and let's the players do the talking. The Irish media loves a sideshow, we need a management team that will not give the Irish media that sideshow.
Here they come! It’s the charge of the “Thanks” Brigade!
There will always be a sideshow.
Eg. if somehow Ralf Rangnick was our next coach and we lose a game the hounds will be out saying that he has no idea what he's doing as he's continental yada yada.
We shouldn't pick our manager based on the media. We should pick the best guy for the job. Full stop.
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
Owen GarvanOriginally Posted by Stuttgart88
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
Ha ha. Even I don't think Garvan is the answer. But he's still not yet 30!
As you're here, did you get a chance to see that Giles / Whelan clip?
I've one for you Stutts seeing as that seems to be coming to nothing
In what sense are you suggesting the clip applies to us? It's a very interesting and good piece of analysis but I'm just not sure where we come into the equation. Are you pointing out that we don't have a player like Schweinsteiger or saying that our options should try to play more like the way he does?
You say you agree with every word of the analysis, but they're saying that there's no need for a designated holding midfielder at all, let alone two, yet you see Glenn Whelan as an important player for us in his current holding midfield role, as I'm sure you appreciate Mascherano is for Argentina. He was exceptionally good when they reached the final last year, every bit as important as Schweinsteiger for Germany.
Mascherano couldn't play football like Schweinsteiger even if he wanted or was allowed to, he simply hasn't got the attributes. The same could obviously be said for our guys but that's not to say McCarthy, at least, shouldn't be doing more than he is, as was covered pretty well in the 42.ie analysis. Maybe that's all you're getting at?
Giles and Ronnie Whelan were saying it's not rocket science, when one goes forward the other covers back. That's all well and good when you've got Schweinsteiger, Khedira, Kroos, etc., all very athletic players who can cover the ground as well as play. The closest we've come to anything like that in recent years was probably the combination of Meyler and Hendrick at Craven Cottage, in terms of rotating the attacking and defensive responsibilities, but I'd be fairly nervous if we were set up like that in a real game.
Last edited by DeLorean; 19/06/2015 at 10:02 AM.
I'm at my son's sports day. Response to follow later!
We played without a holding midfielder in Stockholm. Green and McCarthy were more like an old fashioned midfield two and they worked well.
Yes, I do appreciate the value of a player like Whelan or Mascherano but I think each takes too much out of the ball and a CB should be able to develop play from deep without playing it to a deep lying midfielder. And while Schweinsteiger is an exceptionally good footballer, the ability to carry the ball in midfield should be a given, not an exception. The Giles / Whelan clip was a general criticism of the way a modern midfield often works (Argentina's) and bemoaning the infrequency of a midfield how it should work. It's great that Mascherano is hungry for the ball, but he's hungry for the ball in his own third. What teams need are players who are also hungry for the ball in the middle and final thirds. That's what we lack, with the exception of Hoolahan.
Do England have one?
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
Good point. It was more old school. I think the Meyler/Hendrick combination might have been slightly more dynamic in a box-to-box sense, but Green and McCarthy did work very effectively around the middle, unfortunately it wasn't really replicated in Vienna.
Okay, but neither Whelan nor Mascherano have this ability which should be a given, so where does that leave us? In Argentina's case, keeping Mascherano as an integral part of their team and making a World Cup final and, in our case, a lot of people insisting Whelan is an very important player.
Glenn Whelan can hardly be described as anything other than a holding midfielder, he's the absolute epitome of a holding midfielder, in everything he does and doesn't do. You agree with Giles and Ronnie that it's basically a myth that teams need holding midfielders, so where does that leave Glenn and why is he so important, if we don't even really need a player who performs that function only?
Last edited by DeLorean; 19/06/2015 at 3:57 PM.
If I might appoint myself as a senior Irish international is this scenario...
Boss, there are a couple of things that come to mind. It is much harder to qualify for the World Cup that the Euros with the new qualification system. It is going to need an almighty effort and a bit of luck for us to get the Brazil as a 4th seed. It's going to be tough, but all we can do is give it our best shot.
I liked how we played in the first half against Scotland. Nobody does that any more, butl I genuinely think we can get results playing a very direct game. But for it to work it will need us to be well drilled as a team. The players who show up for friendlies need to be the same players who get picked for the big games, even if that means leaving better players on the bench.
Our basic system should be getting the ball to the forwards as quickly as possible. The only player we have who can unlock a defence with a creative pass is Wes Hoolahan. Wes is 33 now, and will be 36 by the time the next World Cup comes around. The kind of patient build up that some people want to see us play will leave us endlessly passing the ball in front of 8 or 9 men, losing it, and having to race back to defend a counter attack. I think Jon Walters showed against Scotland that there aren't to many players out there who can hold a ball up better then him
25 years ago Big Jack felt that fullbacks were becoming part of the attack for most of the sides he faced, so he asked John Aldridge to drift into wide areas and get in behind them. That had the effect of either pinning the opposition full backs inside their own half, blunting the opposition attack, or leaving John in acres of space on his own. Football has changed massively since then, but if anything fullbacks are even more adventurous these days. Shane Long has got the legs and the right instincts to do the same job as Aldo did. I think it can work as well now as it did back then.
I worry about our centre backs. Marc Wilson and JOSH both look comfortable on the ball, but neither of them is a Richard Dunne or a Mick McCarthy. I think we need to start looking for a defender like that. Ciaran Clark showed signs that he might be that player for Villa last season. Or perhaps Shane Duffy. It think they should both get their chance in upcoming games.
We also need a natural left back. It is going to mean throwing someone in at the deep end, but it has to be done. At the start of next season, whoever we can find playing somewhere, be it at the bottom end of the championship, league 1, or the SPL, needs to come in to the team. The good news is that Gibraltar away and Georgia home are a great way to start. Whoever this is going to be will need a lot of help against Germany. It's a risk, but they will likely become a better player for the experience. Perhaps playing for Ireland will get them noticed by a team higher up the pyramid.
Finally. All this is probably going to go down like a fart in a spacesuit with the press. I've noticed the BBC are now having managers being interviewed by Gary Linekar on Match of the Day, and he puts the points to them that the analysts have raised during the coverage. Dunphy is going to have the knives out for you. If you do your post match interviews with the studio, rather than talking to Tony O'Donoghue, I think you could call Dunphy out on a lot of the crap he talks. But I would even consider going up the stairs to the studio and sitting down between him and Liam. It's the It's unorthadox, but it might be the best way to defend yourself.
None of this will be pretty, but if it gets results you will be forgiven.
Last edited by backstothewall; 19/06/2015 at 4:25 PM.
Bring Back Belfast Celtic F.C.
I think if you've got a player who brings something useful to the party, let him. In that case Whelan, who has value as a holding player should be picked. The point for me is simply that we lack midfielders who get on the ball and use it well. If we had it'd make the case for a Whelan less strong.
Highlighting Mascherano showed how limited he is in his use of the ball but I think most people know his big asset is his defensive abilities. That's not to be scoffed at, but as we're currently talking about changes in the game in the soccer v rugby v GAA thread I think a trend in the game is for almost every team team to have a holding midfielder as you define it. I don't think it's necessary. I think a midfield needs a ball winner and a ball user, and ideally players who can do both. A ball winner is not necessarily a holding midfielder. Would Khedira be a holding midfielder, or a ball winning midfielder?
wilshere always wants the ball. Henderson too, and is quite purposeful when in possession. They have others too, just most big teams have better ones!
I'd definitely consider him a ball winning midfielder, he's certainly not a holding midfielder in a limited sense, similar to Anturo Vidal, although maybe slightly more defensive minded.
In summary so, you don't need a Glenn Whelan, unless you have nothing better!
Not that it's wrong to draw the link between a thriving youth set up and the senior national team, but an interesting contrast is Serbia: u20s just won World Cup, senior national team currently only on 1 point out of 6 games and 5 behind Albania.
I'd love to know what the chat is on their footie forums. "Our youth system is cr@p, oh wait...". Knowing Serbia they're probably blaming it on gypsies or religious minorities.
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 20/06/2015 at 2:00 PM.
I'm guessing that Serbian U20 WC winning team will make up the bulk of their U21 team we face in the qualifying for 2017 Euro U21 Championships.
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