Republic of Ireland V Scotland - Saturday, 13th June 2015 - Euro 2016 Qualifier

[jbyrne]

Anyone subscribed to the sun.ie care to copy and paste the story about the players not knowing the formation? Seems more than plausible judging by the confidence or lack of many had on the ball, especially in the 2nd half.

we are now quoting the sun??!!!!
I thought we were well set up in the first half and everyone seemed to know their job. possibly the best half from an o'neill team

[jbyrne]

Emmet Malone on Second Captains was making a pretty decent point about what we want from our next campaign - we're fourth seeds, we're on the wane and the players don't appear to be coming through.

He suggested this freedom to look long-term rather than short (a freedom to write off the next campaign and not be under pressure to get a result every match) might be the best thing for us.

its not as if we have a whole crop of good u21s waiting in the wings to be given a chance. we just are not producing enough good players to have the potential to come through. not sure how throwing in a load of untried and probably not good enough players for a campaign or two will make things better.

not overly concerned at our 4th seeding to be honest. Greece were no. 1 seeds for this campaign and have been beaten twice by the faroes

In a funny way it might be what gets people back on board.

the Irish sports fan wants to follow success or the flavour of the month. couldn't see them buying into a couple of campaigns even worse than this one (however still with the potential to be rescued possibly)

[nigel-harps1954]

its not as if we have a whole crop of good u21s waiting in the wings to be given a chance. we just are not producing enough good players to have the potential to come through. not sure how throwing in a load of untried and probably not good enough players for a campaign or two will make things better.

I know it's not quite English Premier League stars, but the League of Ireland under-19 league running for the past number of years is really starting to pay dividends for a number of clubs. There's a good list of young players within both divisions really starting to make an impact here and signs is on that there's currently four or five of them playing international level and I'd guess another four or five on the cusp of it too.

A lot of clubs going the right direction with coaching and underage structures and setting up their own academies.

It's time we stopped looking at players breaking through in England and concentrated on giving players breaking through here the best start and best support in their senior careers.

[paul_oshea]

DI look at Uefa here ->http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro/qualifi...954/index.html

Shots on target was 6 , to Scotlands 3. Total attempts 13 to 8. That's not a huge difference by any standards.

The corners one is the only one that reads well really relative to us supposedly being that good and completely stifling Scotland. But corners are not shots on goal, or clear cut chances per se!

And i dont agree with writing off campaigns to feed players through, that's a load of visionary whally that's totally unfounded with no substance. We have to make do with what we have, we don't have much and it looks like even less coming through, but as said before many countries are making good with what they have. Bar staunton's campaigns(and looking like this one) we have always been there and thereabouts heading into the last couple of games, we should always be looking to be there or thereabouts coming into the last game. We don't need all this talk of a complete overhaul that will probably just create the exact same outcome anyway.

[SwanVsDalton]

its not as if we have a whole crop of good u21s waiting in the wings to be given a chance. we just are not producing enough good players to have the potential to come through. not sure how throwing in a load of untried and probably not good enough players for a campaign or two will make things better.

And i dont agree with writing off campaigns to feed players through, that's a load of visionary whally that's totally unfounded with no substance. We have to make do with what we have, we don't have much and it looks like even less coming through, but as said before many countries are making good with what they have. Bar staunton's campaigns(and looking like this one) we have always been there and thereabouts heading into the last couple of games, we should always be looking to be there or thereabouts coming into the last game. We don't need all this talk of a complete overhaul that will probably just create the exact same outcome anyway.

In fairness, I didn't mention feeding players through (and I don't think Malone was talking about that either).

What's being talked about is giving the players we have more breathing space to play a natural game, to not feel like they're under pressure not to lose every game and reverting to the simplest and most rigid structures.

It's very much about getting the best out of players we have, which is why I cited the likes of Coleman and McCarthy underperforming. These guys are good players but they are not showing it for us.

Of course, I'd ideally love to combine us being competitive and playing a bolder, braver brand of football. But it doesn't appear to me it'll be that simple.

[paul_oshea]

Fair enough, but there were a couple of others suggesting that. I think that just requires a different manager with a different philosophy, people scoffed at Strachan and the suggestions made that he looked good for Scotland at the start of the campaign, and I don't want to keep harping on about this one, but I'd love a manager with that attitude in charge of us. And as bad as both Scotland and Ireland are, they are in the driving seat and he has gotten enough out of them. We haven't.

It's funny I had in my head that we had played some nice football under staunton, with this freedom that you speak of at home, getting wins against Wales and Slovakia at home, but a mate told me on Friday that wasn't the case at all, maybe i was slightly blinded by the wins...either way we did play with more freedom like you speak but we got spanked, there is a balance and I think a certain manager with a good philosophy and positive mentality would change all that, without needing any of these suggestions of saying it takes two campaigns/write-offs etc.

[centre mid]

FAI arent going to want a couple of campaigns in the wilderness with massive debts to service and a half empty stadium.

[Stuttgart88]

Liam Brady's assessment. Team crying out for an assertive CM, too many little mistakes, MON doesn't rate Long, good first half even if it was direct and not how Brady likes to play, Murphy did well, wrong to take Wes off, not fair to compare Martin to Michael O'Neill as NI has much easier group...

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/c...pe-336999.html

Giles in The Indo says that schoolboy clubs are doing a lot of stuff right, especially in regard to providing a safe environment for kids to play. Says they do so much by themselves it's fair that they don't want FAI interference so therefore it's imperative that everything be joined up at club level - set up a club association and channel as much support as possible from FIFA, UEFA and the State (fat chance...). Giles thinks we still have a chance. He was happy with parts of the game, first half especially, and thinks results later in the group are still possible.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-31303426.html

[DeLorean]

It's funny I had in my head that we had played some nice football under staunton, with this freedom that you speak of at home, getting wins against Wales and Slovakia at home, but a mate told me on Friday that wasn't the case at all, maybe i was slightly blinded by the wins

My memory is that the Wales game was terrible and we were pretty good in the Slovakia game. Could be wrong though.

[paul_oshea]

The home one, with Stephen Ireland and Keane combining well, i thought we were good. But maybe the two goals overshadowed that. Still when did we score two goals against half decent opposition when not losing(Russia losing, I don't include Armenia) in Dublin?

[bennocelt]

Fair enough, but there were a couple of others suggesting that. I think that just requires a different manager with a different philosophy, people scoffed at Strachan and the suggestions made that he looked good for Scotland at the start of the campaign, and I don't want to keep harping on about this one, but I'd love a manager with that attitude in charge of us. And as bad as both Scotland and Ireland are, they are in the driving seat and he has gotten enough out of them. We haven't.

It's funny I had in my head that we had played some nice football under staunton, with this freedom that you speak of at home, getting wins against Wales and Slovakia at home, but a mate told me on Friday that wasn't the case at all, maybe i was slightly blinded by the wins...either way we did play with more freedom like you speak but we got spanked, there is a balance and I think a certain manager with a good philosophy and positive mentality would change all that, without needing any of these suggestions of saying it takes two campaigns/write-offs etc.

In Wales at the time, amazing the way the bar emptied out at half time, it was that bad

[DeLorean]

Not sure that Wales side could be considered half decent. Slovakia weren't exactly the force they have become since either (i.e. qualifying for tournaments) but I think we did play well that night. Both games finished 1-0 though, didn't they?

[EAFC_rdfl]

Off the top of my head, I can think of Whelan's effort from distance, Murphy's header, McCarthy's blocked effort and Walters' goal. And then there were all the crosses from Coleman/Brady in good positions that didn't quite make it, but still pressure in the last third. According to the Guardian, we had 9 shots on target over the two halves and 1 off target (although the Daily Mail says we had 11 in total) compared to their 3 on target and 3 off. We had 13 corners to their 4. Possession was 50-50 but the former stats indicate that most of the game was played in the Scottish half. Compare also the heat maps here for, say, Daryl Murphy and Steven Fletcher to get an impression of which front man was receiving more possession further up the field: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...112016-m747589

Fletcher barely touched the ball in or near the Irish box. Most of Murphy's action came inside the Scottish box.

Just accept that you're wrong and he's right, as always. sure didn't he text his mates!!!

Liam Brady's assessment. Team crying out for an assertive CM, too many little mistakes, MON doesn't rate Long, good first half even if it was direct and not how Brady likes to play, Murphy did well, wrong to take Wes off, not fair to compare Martin to Michael O'Neill as NI has much easier group...

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/c...pe-336999.html

Giles in The Indo says that schoolboy clubs are doing a lot of stuff right, especially in regard to providing a safe environment for kids to play. Says they do so much by themselves it's fair that they don't want FAI interference so therefore it's imperative that everything be joined up at club level - set up a club association and channel as much support as possible from FIFA, UEFA and the State (fat chance...). Giles thinks we still have a chance. He was happy with parts of the game, first half especially, and thinks results later in the group are still possible.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-31303426.html

I don't know much about schoolboys clubs so can't say how accurate or not that is. But it stinks of a swipe at Sadlier for taking 'his' seat on The Panel. Sadlier made a fair bit of commentary about the schoolboys clubs post match, about how it's all about winning and not about getting the basic skills in place and enjoying the game. I think Dunphy was also making the same comments. He was saying that the big lad will always get picked over the small technical lad nowadays, and that means no more players like Wes coming through

[Stuttgart88]

My memory is that the Wales game was terrible and we were pretty good in the Slovakia game. Could be wrong though.

Wales game was dire. Flat and unimaginative salvaged by a good Stephen Ireland goal. Dunne had a brain fart and gave the ball away for a one-on-one which Wales missed. Poor Welsh side that day / era.

Slovakia was good, Stan's best competitive performance probably.

[paul_oshea]

Ya they did. I thought we scored 2 against Wales...

[Stuttgart88]

Just accept that you're wrong and he's right, as always. sure didn't he text his mates!!!



I don't know much about schoolboys clubs so can't say how accurate or not that is. But it stinks of a swipe at Sadlier for taking 'his' seat on The Panel. Sadlier made a fair bit of commentary about the schoolboys clubs post match, about how it's all about winning and not about getting the basic skills in place and enjoying the game. I think Dunphy was also making the same comments. He was saying that the big lad will always get picked over the small technical lad nowadays, and that means no more players like Wes coming through

Im not sure Giles is taking a swipe (he's calling it as he sees it!), rather he is talking from the perspective of a guy with links to one of the better clubs.

It seems to be a case of the fallacy of composition: if everyone does whats good for himself, the greater good is diminished. The clubs are behaving rationally to suit themselves but the result is to the detriment of the greater ambitions. I am a little suspicious of the labelling of clubs as primitive win-at-all-costs merchants though. I thought that things are moving on? Although the DDSL giving lots of money to the FAI to build a pitch makes me wonder if it's a bit like our payment from FIFA: take the money and leave us alone will ya?

[Stuttgart88]

Ya they did. I thought we scored 2 against Wales...

We did in Cardiff, then McShane intervened in injury time! It was 1-0 in Croker I think.

[OwlsFan]

I missed the game as I was attending a function in England and sat down and watched the game (apologies if all these matters have been covered all ready) yesterday afternoon in the comfort of my living room. I am sure all the nuances and tactics of the game have been debated ad nauseum so I'll just refer to a few matters which came to my attention:

(a) Don't feel guilty by the offside goal (very little in it as the feet were level) as Hoolahan (I think) at the far post was having his shirt pulled/tugged as he made a dart for the near post in the same incident. Clear penalty.

(b) WTF was the stadium PA doing playing a celebratory song when Scotland scored? Is it a FIFA rule or something if the home side does it, the away side must get the same. Disgrace if it's not mandatory/

(c) Very little coming through on audio of huge support from Irish fans other than after the goal. Was this correct?

(d) We were slightly better in the first half and also in the second. Not a huge amount in it but if Murphy had taken that chance almost immediately after the Scots got their fluke, different game - different result.

(e) Maloney touched the ball from open play about 4 times, including his shot which was going well wide.

(f) Every management team deserves at least two campaigns. In the UK they go ballistic when a manager is sacked after 6 games in the EPL. The threshold is of course smaller for international football due to the far fewer games but I wouldn't write MON's obituary as yet. I was hoping that at last we would start winning "must win" games at home but it's not to be (Poland and Scotland) and we have even lost a "must not lose" game (Scotland away) so we may have even gone back a step but sometimes you have to go in to reverse to go forward. Let's see how we go in the next 4 games and then the next campaign even if this one ends with a whimper.

(g) There is not time to experiment in int football in competitive games or write off campaigns where you still have a chance. If you're lucky, in your life time, you will have 15 Euros and 15 World Cups you'll remember or be aware of. Each campaign has to be treated as if it's the one and only we'll ever be in as they're like hens' teeth.

[DeLorean]

And i dont agree with writing off campaigns to feed players through, that's a load of visionary whally that's totally unfounded with no substance. We have to make do with what we have, we don't have much and it looks like even less coming through, but as said before many countries are making good with what they have. Bar staunton's campaigns(and looking like this one) we have always been there and thereabouts heading into the last couple of games, we should always be looking to be there or thereabouts coming into the last game. We don't need all this talk of a complete overhaul that will probably just create the exact same outcome anyway.

There is not time to experiment in int football in competitive games or write off campaigns where you still have a chance. If you're lucky, in your life time, you will have 15 Euros and 15 World Cups you'll remember or be aware of. Each campaign has to be treated as if it's the one and only we'll ever be in as they're like hens' teeth.

Nice to see some sanity restored to the forum.

[Stuttgart88]

I wouldn't write off campaigns either but at the same time MON has been slow to signal to the "next in lines" that they might have something to play for. Tets was bemoaning the lack of willingness to shoot. Conor Hourihane? There was a spell early last season where he deserved a call up to the initial, larger, squads. Unless I'm mistaken he wasn't. I think sometimes being on the international radar can help a player with his club ambitions.

Anyway, 12 months from now I'm expecting players like Hoban, Duffy and Egan to be pressing for a squad place, maybe more. Mick had Alan Kelly playing at a high level but still gave caps early in his tenure to Shay. If we're to call up 4 keepers why not Lawlor or Henderson rather than 4 quite seasoned keepers? It's been unimaginative.