Republic of Ireland V Scotland - Saturday, 13th June 2015 - Euro 2016 Qualifier

[geysir]

ardee Bhoy and I watched the ENG u21 v IRL u21 game recently and we didn't see much cause for optimism. Only later we found out that our lads were two years younger than England's. Isn't that how we tend to do things? We do t make it easy for ourselves at underage level.

Historically I think Irish managers since Mick have looked at club and division first and foremost. At the margins I think a bolder approach could be applied. Conservatism on and off the pitch has been the theme of the decade, with the obvious exception of Stan's end of season tours!

England are preparing for the Euro finals, therefore they are using the same squad that were u21, some 2 years ago. We are preparing for the 2017 qualifiers.

[SwanVsDalton]

Emmet Malone on Second Captains was making a pretty decent point about what we want from our next campaign - we're fourth seeds, we're on the wane and the players don't appear to be coming through.

He suggested this freedom to look long-term rather than short (a freedom to write off the next campaign and not be under pressure to get a result every match) might be the best thing for us.

He also suggested, without really saying it, that O'Neill isn't the man for that job.

I'm inclined to agree that we're in full-on reboot mode now. There's no point sticking gaffer tape all over the team if it falls apart on the road to the finals. It doesn't really matter whose in the 11, or even if it's 442 or 433 - we don't play good enough, we're scared, we have no composure. We need a fresh start, a proper one, and maybe the only way we're really going to get it is with some reflective, painful time in the wilderness.

[Stuttgart88]

In a funny way it might be what gets people back on board.

[Crosby87]

we need a fresh start, a proper one, and maybe the only way we're really going to get it is with some reflective, painful time in the wilderness.

Only one underwhelming appearance since 2002 isn't being in the wilderness?

[SwanVsDalton]

Only one underwhelming appearance since 2002 isn't being in the wilderness?

Compared to the likes of Scotland, Northern Ireland and poor aul Wales, no not really.

Scotland and NI are possibly good examples - while we've generally been there or thereabouts at the tail end of campaigns, and in play-offs, these guys have occasionally found themselves well out of it. They've had some truly traumatic qualifying runs in the last decade. But they've also taken some notable scalps and played with the kind of freedom that comes from not feeling cup-final like tension every match.

It's the proverbial chimp on the back, no question, and I'd take a campaign where where we somehow beat a top seed at home but conspire to draw twice with Latvia, say, rather than win against minnows and bottle it against anyone else. If only because we might need that experience to get back to where we should be.

[MeathDrog]

Anyone subscribed to the sun.ie care to copy and paste the story about the players not knowing the formation? Seems more than plausible judging by the confidence or lack of many had on the ball, especially in the 2nd half.

[Crosby87]

Thought you would have been more curious about that article about Van Morrisons wife.

[paul_oshea]

Also, interesting that neither CTP nor I is what Paul would call a "mate".

I knew when I said that but I thought both of you were at the game, I meant those not at the game

DI we created very few chances, how many shots on goal in the first half? 1 i counted! THe more shots you have the more goals you will score! So what if we had possession, we were the home team. I don't normally use stats as the yardstick to beat/back an argument but the stats for overall were very even, unfortunately I can't find by half time. Possession was even, Scotland had more passes and more completed, and 3 times the amount of fouls on them, which is alarming considering we were at home and supposedly in control, the only decent stat for us was that we had 6 shots on target to their 3, but for all that great performance in the first half, where we supposedly gave them nothing id expect have expect that to be multiples not double.

[Crosby87]

Why don't you consider stutts a mate? Did he nick your sausage roll again?

[paul_oshea]

It wasn't sausage rolls! And he owes me pints

No it was meant as those not at the game, he knows that too!

[Charlie Darwin]

DI we created very few chances, how many shots on goal in the first half? 1 i counted!

Shots on target or shots on goal?

[mark12345]

Something that does upset me about schoolboy football, is the lack of progression. St Kevin's Boys should be a leading League of Ireland club, given the sheer number of players they have on their books. But they don't. From what I can see, their sole aim is to get as many kids across to England as possible, no different to Belvedere before them, or Home Farm before them, or Cherry Orchard before them.
This is where the FAI need to step up to the plate. They are the guys that hold all the aces. They pick the national underage teams. Set out guidelines that will completely restructure Irish football, as the FAI feel it needs to be, and then get all clubs to ascede to them. You won't? Fine, no schoolboy internationals for you. That will change attitudes quickly. Because a parent or schoolboy might want to play for Liverpool/United, but they also want to play for their country too, because the chances of it happening the higher up the line get slimmer and slimmer.

Just in case anyone thinks this is idealistic crap or that, I'm doing what I believe in. I have a boy of 8, who is the smallest in his team, and he is technically excellent, tough as nails and uber-confident. He can read a game and is two-footed. It has come from hours spent outside telling him what to do, and from watching matches with the sound off, so that he isn't getting someone elses idea of what constitutes a good player, as defined by English media. He is and will continue to learn foreign languages, so that if the time comes that he is able to make a decision to pursue a career in football, he'll have options that suit him.
He does not play for a "big" team. He is coached by a technically brilliant person in Tony Sheridan, and from what I see every week, I wouldn't have it any other way because he is getting exactly what he needs right now.

You my friend, are the future of the game in Ireland. I really like your enlightened views on the game and I wish every parent thought like you. I was a member of the Home Farm team back in the 80's and what you say about that club and Belevedere, and Kevins is correct. I remember a Tony Sheridan with Shelbourne also. He was a very good player. I commend you on your foresight. Here's hoping your son and many more like him are given the latitude to express their creativity on the football pitches of Ireland.

[Kingdom]

It is the same Tony Sheridan. I was very skeptical when I went up first, but he is brilliant. Head up, ball down move into space, etc etc. I've no doubt this is no different to the coaching at the big clubs.

[mark12345]

Good idea by Malone. I think if we put it to the footballing public that we are in rebuilding mode and did not expect to qualify for two campaigns then we would buy some credibility with the man in the street (of course it would not go down too well with the suits in the FAI). Also if we offered the top home based talent a chance to play in the national team then something might become of it. An elite squad of home based players who are compensated for making the squad (ie triple their current salaries so that they can become as close as possible to full time professionals) is the way to go. They could be called an Ireland B team or an Ireland Developmental squad, and where possible have them play friendlies against top quality club opposition and lower caliber international teams. It would take some time to get them up to speed but we have to start somewhere

[mark12345]

It may not be the same Tony Sheridan, but this lad you know sounds like something special if he's giving the kids the chance to express themselves on the field and not putting an emphasis on results and trophies.
There was another lad I played with in school (Gary Howlett) - best talent I ever saw. Got a cap for Ireland and played in two FA Cup Finals. But in truth English football ruined him (which speaks to your earlier point about kids just going sheepishly across the water). Howlett would have thrived in France, Holland, Italy he was that good of a midfielder, but that was never an option for kids growing up in Ireland in the 80's, and that's still the case today apparently - which is shocking when you think of it. You say your lad is learning languages - good for him. The top talent at home needs to start thinking of destinations other than English football - if English players were so good why are there so many foreigners there? And if they're not that good - which they're not - then what does that say about English coaches? English / Irish coaches - there are very very few good ones

[Fixer82]

It would be great if there were some inroads made into Holland, Belgium, France for getting young Irish footballers to go over there instead of England. Obviously there is a language barrier but I know for me as a young teen, the UK was just as alien as the continent.
Many people in Holland have very good English also.

I think it could be great for the next generation. All we have is the same type of player as is being produced in Britain. So if the FA make mistakes in their youth coaching, we ultimately suffer.

[DannyInvincible]

I knew when I said that but I thought both of you were at the game, I meant those not at the game

DI we created very few chances, how many shots on goal in the first half? 1 i counted! THe more shots you have the more goals you will score! So what if we had possession, we were the home team. I don't normally use stats as the yardstick to beat/back an argument but the stats for overall were very even, unfortunately I can't find by half time. Possession was even, Scotland had more passes and more completed, and 3 times the amount of fouls on them, which is alarming considering we were at home and supposedly in control, the only decent stat for us was that we had 6 shots on target to their 3, but for all that great performance in the first half, where we supposedly gave them nothing id expect have expect that to be multiples not double.

Off the top of my head, I can think of Whelan's effort from distance, Murphy's header, McCarthy's blocked effort and Walters' goal. And then there were all the crosses from Coleman/Brady in good positions that didn't quite make it, but still pressure in the last third. According to the Guardian, we had 9 shots on target over the two halves and 1 off target (although the Daily Mail says we had 11 in total) compared to their 3 on target and 3 off. We had 13 corners to their 4. Possession was 50-50 but the former stats indicate that most of the game was played in the Scottish half. Compare also the heat maps here for, say, Daryl Murphy and Steven Fletcher to get an impression of which front man was receiving more possession further up the field: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...112016-m747589

Fletcher barely touched the ball in or near the Irish box. Most of Murphy's action came inside the Scottish box.

[tricky_colour]

We can beat Poland in warsaw. We can just trick them into shooting at their own net.

Just transfer Delaney's $5 million into a polish account(s) that is about $420,000 each.

[tricky_colour]

Thought you would have been more curious about that article about Van Morrisons wife.

It seems that article has been over looked, much like her garden.

[tricky_colour]

I must say the Scotland goal was well worked.

Indeed it is almost as if they have been practising.

We could learn a lesson or two there.