Republic of Ireland V Scotland - Saturday, 13th June 2015 - Euro 2016 Qualifier

[Real ale Madrid]

Nothing worse than a look at the overall state of Irish football every time the senior side has a bad result. It's every blooming match at this stage. If the majority of the 35,000 fans who went yesterday attended the league of Ireland we would be producing dozens of top players.

The real question is are we getting the best Out of what we have . A team like ours needs to be greater than the sum of its parts to be successful at this level. We have to ask do we have a manager capable of getting that kind of effort from his players.
I'm not sure myself either way but it's been disappointing so far. We are not totally out of it I think though. There is bound to be a twist of some sort yet.

[paul_oshea]

I only saw this article now, but it definitely, more than ever rings true, and it was written before the game

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/c...to-336736.html

[zero]

i was digusted by the team selection, attitude and performance. i won't be attending another game while o'neill is in charge.

i thought the atmosphere at lansdowne road was very flat compared to that in glasgow. i was also shocked that the team wasn't booed off.

[backstothewall]

Maybe it's time to play one of or both Coleman and Brady in wide midfield to get the most out of them and play Ward at full back.

I think we all overstate how bad he is sometimes (me included). He is solid enough.

Northern Ireland's RB plays for Fleetwood Town in League One and he has took to this level like a duck in water.

It's one Heath-Robinson left-back after another. You make a great point about Conor McLaughlin playing for the North. If he is good enough we should start next season picking whoever is the best natural young left-back playing somewhere. If that means a Derrick Williams, Sean Kavanagh or Enda Stevens getting a run, so be it.

They may make mistakes, but so will an experienced premier league player playing out of position. At least a young kid might develop in the role and as a player.

[jbyrne]

By the way, not sure if this has been mentioned, but the moment after the Scotland goal was the most surreal moment I've ever experienced in Lansdowne Road.

Are we the only professional team in sporting history to celebrate an away goal with music via the PA system? I reckon we might be. It was a disgusting moment.

i despise goal celebration music but whoever decided to play if after their goal should be fired.

lansdowne used to be a feared stadium for away teams but boy do we roll out the red carpet for the opposition these days. total joke

[paul_oshea]

im getting a bit annoyed now with the stuff coming out from the players afterwards, some using the word luck, and deflections etc when saying that we kept them bombarded with high balls. Its showing a complete lack of direction or ideas when you rely on something from big long balls. They should be out saying we didnt contain and hold the ball well enough and play through them.

The point about Given waving the arms on 50 is dead right, its ridiculous, funny though in the last 10 or 15 minutes he kept it on the ground a lot more, but he spent ages in actually making the pass. Hendrick trudging along as well really grated me. Ah I'm more annoyed again thinking about it. Complete lack of ideas, and lack of urgency cos no ideas.

Brady disappointed me in the last while when we really needed him though, he hit mclean twice and also just looked really uncomfortable.

[Crosby87]

I saw one funny thing, after the goal the camera panned the crowd and there were all these peeps cheering and one guy in the middle of it trying to cheer and eat a big hero sandwhich at the same time....I suspect it was someone from here.

[boysingreen]

What a lucky c*** Maloney is (not a bad player). On the right side of an OG at the Aviva, and I was watching highlights from Scotland/Georgia's first meeting, and he was involved in one there too (shot, keeper blocks it, bounces off defender, into the net).

And that goal v. Georgia was decisive, 1-0 in Scotland, massive 3 points. The brief analysis I saw of that game was that Scotland dominated, but couldn't find the net- also that their keeper didn't have a save to make all night. Scotland's goal did come before the half hour mark, so maybe they felt somewhat complacent at home. Not a lot to make me too optimistic about the Scots slipping up in Tbilisi, but maybe Lady Luck won't be wearing their strip this time.

[seanfhear]

Do the Players believe in/enjoy Hoofball.

How many players are playing this way at Club level.
I would say that they are being told not too play this way at club level and then when they come to Play for Ireland Martin O'Neill is asking them to play in a manner that they don't believe/know how to/want to.

I think that by the way our players are performing that they are being asked to play is against what they are being coached at Club level.

Martin O'Neill should know better than to ask Players to do what is very much against their normal game.

How many Clubs are Playing Hoofball these days.

[boysingreen]

If we beat Georgia and Gibraltar, and lose to Germany, we'll go into the final match day, away to Poland, on 15 points.

Assuming Scotland win in Georgia and lose to Germany, they'll enter the penultimate match at home vs. Poland on 14 points.

Assuming Poland beat Gibraltar and lose away to Germany, they'll enter the penultimate match away to Scotland on 17 points.

Scotland have their final game at Gibraltar, so that will be +3 points.

Assume Germany run the table.

I started considering these permutations to figure out the best and worst result for us in the Scotland vs. Poland match, but it seems that we'll most likely need to win in Poland, regardless of who wins Sco/Pol (or draw).

Perhaps a Poland win in Scotland would then be best, as they would clinch qualification and be much less interested in their final meeting with us (certainly less interested compared to any other result v. Scotland, which would leave them vulnerable [technically! /grin] to being knocked out on the final match day by an Irish win).

[Stuttgart88]

I've reached my Irish Times limit. Can someone paste Kerr's analysis here please?

[jbyrne]

I've reached my Irish Times limit. Can someone paste Kerr's analysis here please?

The Republic of Ireland manager seemed to have stumbled upon a system that works. That accommodated Wes Hoolahan. That had Scotland on the rack for 45 minutes and 58 seconds. That’s when it slipped away but the key moment came just after Scotland equalised.

Hoolahan evaded Scott Brown in midfield, casting doubt in the back-pedalling defence before brilliantly presenting Daryl Murphy with a sight of goal on his favoured left foot. This was the moment. The striker nobody expected to start receiving an assist from the creator everyone wanted to start.

That’s three chances now Murphy has missed for Ireland in a week. Two against England as well. I always felt he would be a bit short at this level but he had a good game and may have done enough to stay in the team. But, cruel as it may sound, that was the moment. There should have been more but there wasn’t.


Ireland manager Martin O’Neill cuts a frustrated figure. Photograph: Inpho/Cathal NoonanMartin O’Neill waits for lift-off after Scots make their point

An offside Jonathan Walters scores Ireland’s first-half goal at the Aviva. Photograph: Reuters / Cathal McNaughton.Ken Early: Ireland are poor, and we're getting worse

James McCarthy of Ireland and Scott Brown of Scotland during the draw at the Aviva stadium on Saturday. Photograph: Donall Farmer/InphoFrustrated Eamon Dunphy delivers equine verdict on James McCarthy’s performance

Northern Ireland’s Kyle Lafferty after failing to score agaings Romanian goalkeeper Ciprian Tatarusanu at Windsor Park on Saturday. Photograph: ReutersTwo games to decide Northern Ireland's Euro 2016 fate

James McClean heads a late chance wide as Ireland desperately searched for a winner against Scotland at the Aviva Stadium. Photograph: James Crombie/InphoIreland face Euro exit after failing to get better of Scotland

Republic of Ireland defender John O’Shea at the final whistle of the Euro 2016 qualifying game against Scotland at the Aviva Stadium on Saturday. Photograph: Donall Farmer/Inpho.John O’Shea hopes wins in September can keep Ireland in frame

There was a plan and clarity about Martin O’Neill’s team. You could see the hours of work done on the training ground. Even the selections of Murphy and Jeff Hendrick ahead of James McClean and Shane Long seemed justified.

The team’s lop-sided shape with Hendrick, James McCarthy – his best game in a green jersey – and Glenn Whelan stacked to the right, Hoolahan ahead of them and Jon Walters wide right was initially effective.

Quality crosses

O’Neill trusted McCarthy’s energy to provide cover for Robbie Brady. Leaving an inexperienced left back so exposed was a dangerous gamble but Brady defended well. What he didn’t do was provide quality crosses when they were needed most.



This new system worked until it didn’t. While ensuring we were not outnumbered in central midfield, it was robbing Peter to pay Paul. A better side than Scotland, and there are two in Group D, would have exploited our exposed left flank.

You could see Hoolahan looking over his shoulder every time Alan Hutton got the ball. There was too much space. McCarthy would shoot out of the middle. A calculated risk that paid off because of sheer desire to be first to the ball. The variety of Shay Given’s kickouts to Murphy and Walters combined with some neat combination play had Scotland in disarray.

When taking a one-nil lead, from one of Brady’s initially troublesome corners, it looked like the Scots wouldn’t recover. Walters was offside for the goal so we even had the dose of luck needed in a game overflowing with tension. We had the correct shape. We had the intent.

Then, 58 seconds into the second half, we had none of the above.

Gordon Strachan’s starting XI helped. Craig Forsyth was there for height but his presence, and Matt Richie in ahead of Ikechi Anya, played into our hands.

Until Strachan changed up at half-time with Anya on and Steven Naismith moving to the number 10 position. That, and a deflected goal by Shaun Maloney off John O’Shea’s back, ended our dominance.

No coincidence that Naismith and Anya had touches before Maloney let fly. It must be put down to a lack of concentration.

Thereafter, the best football we’ve seen from an Irish midfield since I don’t know when was swallowed by the game’s intensity. Hendrick, Hoolahan, McCarthy were no longer as prominent. Scotland squeezed them out. Anya checked Seamus Coleman’s impact down the right.

Suddenly, without any warning, we were transported back to Celtic Park in November. Was the first half a mirage? It was certainly cancelled out by the second 45 minutes.

O’Neill made some brave decisions when chasing the game. He changed the system – well, Strachan, it could be argued, changed it for him. Still, introducing McClean for Whelan was brave. It took the chief protector of the Irish defence out of the game for a natural attacker.

Then he took Wes off and put Robbie Keane on. Hoolahan was always the one, I felt, most likely to create a goal. Keane got one sight of goal from distance and hit his shot straight at David Marshall.

The quality of ball in from Brady deteriorated badly when it needed to be reliable. Scotland defended better than we attacked. They dealt with our best without ever overly straining themselves.

With Hoolahan went the game, as nothing else threatened to unlock our visiting neighbour’s defence.



Mini-group

So, to the consequences. Everyone is beating Georgia and Gibraltar so in reality we are in a mini-group with Germany, Poland and Scotland. From that we have three draws and a defeat so we deserve to be lying fourth. Six handy enough points will come from the next two matches before Germany at home and Poland away. It could come down to needing a win in Warsaw.



It’s not out of our hands yet. O’Neill got decent performances out of a side that lacks the guile to turn a draw into a victory. It left the field with Hoolahan.

That first 45 minutes, while better football than anything we saw under Giovanni Trapattoni’s tightly controlled reign, was not enough.

It’s a shame really because nobody should question the desire of this Ireland squad but Scotland, when we strip it all down, wanted it more in Glasgow and they reinforced that in Dublin.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Too depressing/depressed, Stutts...

[paul_oshea]

Trap and O'Neill talked us down at every opportunity, look at Strachan or O'Neill at northern Ireland. refreshing the positivity and confidence that comes from that. The big problem for us is this is reflected on the pitch everyone is scared to get on the ball or use it effectively instead always looking to get rid of it for the easy option -usually backwards - even at throws no one is showing for the ball!!

[Straightstory]

I think Scotland could well fail to beat Georgia away. (We barely managed it). I think Ireland are not out if this yet - purely because Scotland aren't that great and could well slip up. (We're obviously not that great either, but I think we have a better chance of a play-off place than most people think).

[paul_oshea]

O’Neill trusted McCarthy’s energy to provide cover for Robbie Brady. Leaving an inexperienced left back so exposed was a dangerous gamble but Brady defended well. What he didn’t do was provide quality crosses when they were needed most.

The quality of ball in from Brady deteriorated badly when it needed to be reliable.

This is exactly what I thought, but everyone i spoke to after the match said he played well and then i heard he had motm. I couldn't understand it.

I honestly don't think Murphy played that well, he did what he was supposed to do, but again that's not effective. I believe had keane or Long been in there they would have finished it. It's actually one of the worst attempts, he had a yard or two on defender but didn't have the pace to break straight through, and the shot under pressure was straight at the keeper. Anywhere else it had a chance of going in, but he hit it straight at him.

[paul_oshea]

I think Scotland could well fail to beat Georgia away. (We barely managed it). I think Ireland are not out if this yet - purely because Scotland aren't that great and could well slip up. (We're obviously not that great either, but I think we have a better chance of a play-off place than most people think).

If we make it to a play-off, I'll give you £100, to do with what you like, I hope charitable. I like my money, so that's saying something.

We are too frail, too fragile, complete lack of confidence and a manager setting us out to play a way that doesn't suit our best players, or not picking our best players to play our best formation. We will not get a win(against either Germany at home or Poland away) that we need because of all this, and the campaign will peter out. O'Neill does not set us up or give the confidence when needing to win, and we haven't done anything away from home in a generation. Even if Scotland drew in Georgia, we still need to outpoint them against Germany and Poland, they have both teams at home.

I am also convinced that O'Neill might only be aware of the head to head scenario in the last couple of days.

[DannyInvincible]

Decided to have a re-watch of the game last night. The performance wasn't actually as bad as is being made out by some. Naturally, the significance of the disappointing result has coloured views in hindsight, but we were well on top for 70 minutes of that game. We always looked the more likely to win. If only scores were awarded for huffing and puffing...

It was a very intense and spirited first-half. We were totally dominant and our closing down prevented Scotland from playing. Scott Brown, who thinks of himself as a bit of a hardman, was over-run and the Scottish defence looked desperate at times. (Marshall is a safe and trustworthy keeper though.) Even Wes was physically bullying them. At one point we strung about 16 or 17 passes together before Glenn Whelan decided to let a shot fly. It was a good period of possession; proper football. Scotland never did anything like that at any point during the game. We totally deserved to be up 1-0, even if the goal we scored was offside.

Murphy did well throughout, as did Walters. They definitely caused problems. Coleman was getting into good positions and we were utilising him a lot more which was positive at least. Unfortunately, his end-product was absent. I thought Wilson did OK as well. He was getting stuck in and winning tackles; showing passion you want to see. McCarthy was definitely up for it too; maybe trying too hard, a bit like McGeady had done in Glasgow, but good to see the spirit there and him at least attempting to stamp some authority on the midfield. Dunphy lambasted him post-match as having never done anything for both Ireland and Everton; ridiculous attack upon a terrific player who is the pivot of Martinez' team.

Brady had a good game. Did well up the wing and his deliveries were dangerous; he's a good asset to have and comforting to have someone like him to fill the left-back position, which has long been a problem area for us. He showed great spirit as well, for example, running full-pelt to capture the ball from going out for a Scottish throw-in late-on in order to help us get another attack going.

There was a bit of a lull and our concentration possibly fell after coming out for the second half. Anya's introduction appeared to give Scotland another outlet as well. The goal was very scabby. Such a rotten deflection. (In saying that, if I was a Scotland supporter, I'd be mad about our blatantly offside goal in return.) I couldn't believe it went in though. And who was the idiot playing the celebratory music over the tannoy? Music to accompany goals is cringeworthy enough, but playing it when the opposition scores?! Someone needs sacked for that. The plonker also attributed the goal to Steven Fletcher... Fletcher wasn't even near the ball!

Could Shay have done better to make a save though for their goal (which took such a preposterous deflection that UEFA have officially put it down as an O'Shea own-goal)? Was Shay a bit flat-footed? I keep re-watching it but I just can't make it out for sure. It looks like it could have been within his reach, but then watching an already-cumbersome Shay in slow-motion obviously isn't going to do him any favours. Westwood should have started either way. Shay was consistently slow in getting the ball moving again.

Hoolahan coming off was a mistake, although he was perhaps tiring; he worked his socks off and he is 33. That can be Martin's only defence there. Nevertheless, we regained dominance ever so slightly for the last 20 minutes - McClean's introduction helped us be more direct - but there was much less real penetration. We were getting crosses in, but, as Liam Brady said in studio, crosses aren't chances.

I'm not sure O'Neill has the answer. There was no problem with the team's work-rate and graft, but that only goes so far, and our results have shown that; the best we can seemingly do is draw games. Overall, we were limited in the final third and it grew terribly frustrating. I'm concerned for the long-term future.

Ref pretty useless all round. I don't know how much influence upon him Naismith might have had, but he is still a mouthy pest, and then there was Fletcher play-acting too.

There's a section in the brilliant David Winner book on Dennis Bergkamp Stillness and Speed were Bergkamp starts talking about in Holland as a rule they put their players with the most technical ability in the middle of the pitch. Their 'athletes' go out wide.
Today we had Brady and Hoolahan trying to affect the game from the periphery.
The pair of them and another should be in the middle of the pitch running the game.

O'Neill is never gonna buy into this.

Is Ruud Dokter ingraining this philosophy at youth level?

[paul_oshea]

DI the first bit of your post had me thinking you watched a completely different game to me. Funny i watched the highlights again last night on ITV, the Ireland game was the shortest highlight package, against all the others, but was 2nd in order - that is telling, it shows how little we actually did(chances created/shots on goals)*, which was my point earlier, peoples perception have been clouded by the fact we held the ball better, we provided very little and had very little efforts on goal in that first half when everyone thought we were doing well, crosses, possession and passing it back and forth across midfield are not chances and count for very little unless defending a lead in the latter stages of a game. For all this about Murphy, did he score? Did he score against England, what was the point in him starting? Strikers are there to score, 27 goals in championship, so what Long had 20 or so when he was there.

I think at the end of yesterday it reminded me a lot of the last game under Kerr. Completely toothless and the end for the man.

*That is down to playing walters and murphy in my opinion. Put long, mclean and keane(possibly) with hoolahan and i really think we could have created a lot more chances, and scored a couple of goals. We might have been poorer defensively but i dont think that matters given what has happened.

[Closed Account 2]

I think Scotland could well fail to beat Georgia away. (We barely managed it). I think Ireland are not out if this yet - purely because Scotland aren't that great and could well slip up. (We're obviously not that great either, but I think we have a better chance of a play-off place than most people think).

You're right, in a sense, in a perverse way the most important matches for us actually no longer involve us, Georgia v Scotland and Scotland v Poland will have the most bearing on our qualification. If Scotland get no points then I think we will get 3rd, if they get 1 point we might need to win in Warsaw on the last match day against (a hopefully already qualified) Poland. If Scotland get 2 or 3 points in those games I can't see us getting ahead of them and we will finish 4th.

Our fixtures: (currently 9pts)
(a) Gibraltar, (h) Georgia, (h) Germany, (a) Poland

Scotland's fixtures: (currently 11pts)
(a) Georgia, (h) Germany, (h) Poland, (a) Gibraltar

Germany's fixtures (currently 13pts)
(h) Poland, (a) Scotland, (a) Ireland, (h) Georgia

Poland's fixtures: (currently 14pts)
(a) Germany, (h) Gibraltar, (a) Scotland, (h) Ireland


We have to hope Scotland drop points (ideally lose, but above all must not win) in Tbilisi and then probably/hopefully they will lose at home to Germany, while in our next two we need to win in Faro (Gibraltar) and home to Georgia. This will se us move to 15 points and Scotland only on 11 (or 12 if they draw in Tbilisi). Then (the penultimate fixtures) see us play Germany at home and Scotland play Poland at home, we have to hope to better Scotland's result or at the worst case equal it. If we draw with Germany and they lose to Poland we'll be on 16 points and they'll only have 13 points with one fixture left. This would mean a draw (at by then hopefully already qualified Poland) would be enough to see us through, even if Scotland, as expected, beat Gibraltar at home in their last game.