LOI Promotion Activities

[Another Bohemia]

Actually Nestas point about people in bohs not setting out to make money off the charity angle is a fair one so I shouldn't have called it a scam (apols) but my point about the split still stands.

I don't think it does stand though. At no point did Bohs say 100% of the proceeds go to a charity for Palestine. So those who are aware that money goes to Palestine are also aware that there's a split. This is not the first jersey for Palestine Bohs have had either, this one is just selling significantly better.

Why is this jersey selling better? It's not the first Fontains jersey or first Palestine jersey. I think it's because Fontains are one of the bands to the fore of the cultural zeitgeist at the moment. I know people who flew from the UK specifically to buy one of these jerseys on release day, in the pouring rain in phibsboro and then flew home that night. They didn't do that because there was a split with a Palestinian charity, that was a nice aspect for them, they did it because they are huge fans of Fontains. Because of Fontains popularity and outspoken support of Palestine the jersey has become an accessory that appears at festivals, gigs and other random events. A lot of people are looking to buy the jersey first and then finding that some proceeds are going to Palestine. It's a cherry on top for them and an easy way to say "I support Palestine" without having to do anything other than buying something they intended to buy. I see it as Bohs and a charity capitalizing on the popularity of a band and both benefitting. Could the splits be different? Sure but I don't think anyone saw the escalation that Israel has undertaken and if they had the splits probably would be different. As I said Bohs have been pro Palestine for a while now

[Nesta99]

To repeat myself not for the first time ever, the issue could be the perception rather than the good intention. Most of the time these charity partnerships are a great thing. This current situation with Palestine is a throw back to the TV footage of Ethiopia or Sudan, difficult, awful, emotional horific. To produce and sell a jersey that raises funds 50% for this cause and 50% for ones self ie Bohs takes away from the initiative, its principled stance and the literal loss of funds raised to the real cause. Even though it was stated in advance its....maybe tone deaf, conidering the developing genocide. Yes there are tangible benefits through people see the jersey being worn, silent/subtle protest at the conduct of Netanyahu and co. But regardless Bohs initiative has a selfserving aspect to it, and on this occasion I think that is wrong and damages the principle of the raising awareness if not the fundraiser. Its a great idea but it shouldnt be money in Bohs coffers unless it is specifically used for Palestinian refugee groups/social initiative that are relevant to the purpose of the shirt. Otherwise it will look opportunistic even if that ws never the intention. Its a miss by Bohs on growing crises and wider knowledge, and maybe misreading the mood, not a cynical move. It could get kickback in due course or may be lauded but if it were my club I wouldnt want to be making income off the back of this initiative at all, cover costs for sure but thats it and all profit go to this particular cause.

[pineapple stu]

I don't think it does stand though. At no point did Bohs say 100% of the proceeds go to a charity for Palestine. So those who are aware that money goes to Palestine are also aware that there's a split. This is not the first jersey for Palestine Bohs have had either, this one is just selling significantly better.

Could the splits be different? Sure but I don't think anyone saw the escalation that Israel has undertaken and if they had the splits probably would be different.

I think while you're right that Bohs were up front that 30% of the profits from the top would be going to Medical Aid for Palestinians, it's not true to say "I don't think anyone saw the escalation that Israel has undertaken" given the jersey was launched last December, by which stage it was fairly clear what Israel were doing; the war had been ongoing for more than a year at that stage and Israel were already withholding supplies and were talking about taking over total control of Gaza (see the Current Affairs thread here for example)

Why is the jersey selling better? You don't consider the possibility it's because the war is getting worse.

I think there is a case to be made that Bohs are looking to make money off the Palestine situation. (And if that's the case, I think it's only fair to point out that sbgawa was routinely defending Israel in the aforementioned Current Affairs thread - I'll happily place defending Israel way below making money off the conflict while raising thousands for those affected)

[2 Year Contract]

I know people who flew from the UK specifically to buy one of these jerseys on release day, in the pouring rain in phibsboro and then flew home that night. They didn't do that because there was a split with a Palestinian charity, that was a nice aspect for them, they did it because they are huge fans of Fontains.

Disgraceful, the climate officer should be fired on the spot for letting this happen In all seriousness though, if you’re flying to another country just to buy a jersey you really do need to have a long hard look at how much of an absolute oddball you are

[Another Bohemia]

I think while you're right that Bohs were up front that 30% of the profits from the top would be going to Medical Aid for Palestinians, it's not true to say "I don't think anyone saw the escalation that Israel has undertaken" given the jersey was launched last December, by which stage it was fairly clear what Israel were doing; the war had been ongoing for more than a year at that stage and Israel were already withholding supplies and were talking about taking over total control of Gaza (see the Current Affairs thread here for example)

Why is the jersey selling better? You don't consider the possibility it's because the war is getting worse.

I think there is a case to be made that Bohs are looking to make money off the Palestine situation. (And if that's the case, I think it's only fair to point out that sbgawa was routinely defending Israel in the aforementioned Current Affairs thread - I'll happily place defending Israel way below making money off the conflict while raising thousands for those affected)

Absolutely the war worsening may drive sales of the jersey. No doubt in my mind there but I still think a surprising majority are not buying it because of that fact. The best example I can give is almost daily I hear of someone being at a festival/gig seeing one of these jerseys and saying something along the lines of "up the Bohs" to the wearer. The response is typically "who" or "what". My argument is if you don't know who you have bought the jersey from you can't know where the proceeds are going. Keep in mind while Bohs do have a physical shop it would only be match going fans who knows where it is so these other people wearing the jersey are buying it from a Bohs branded online store and still don't realize Bohs is an entity outside the jersey how would they know about any funds going to Palestine?

I won't touch on SBGWA being pro Israel or anything like that. I know little of the context but it does further back my claim that they are not arguing in good faith.

On the escalation from Israel I'll keep it brief. Isreals rhetoric to Palestine has been very colonialist (putting it politely) for as long as I've been alive. It's only in the last, 3/4 months it feels like it's escalating to the point where they are even losing support on the American right( I do think some of that shift is rooted in antisemitism but I could go on about that). Now the plan is to take full control of Gaza. That evolved from just Gaza City to the whole strip almost overnight. It's similar to the Iran situation. Isreal has been pounding the drum about Iran having nuclear weapons for 30 odd years? And only this year did they take action on that. Rhetoric to action has always been a slow creep for Israel and now it seems like a 100 meter dash.

[Another Bohemia]

Disgraceful, the climate officer should be fired on the spot for letting this happen In all seriousness though, if you’re flying to another country just to buy a jersey you really do need to have a long hard look at how much of an absolute oddball you are

100% they were an oddball but at least the jersey is made in Ireland so the carbon footprint to get it to Dalymount is relatively small

[pineapple stu]

My argument is if you don't know who you have bought the jersey from you can't know where the proceeds are going. Keep in mind while Bohs do have a physical shop it would only be match going fans who knows where it is so these other people wearing the jersey are buying it from a Bohs branded online store and still don't realize Bohs is an entity outside the jersey how would they know about any funds going to Palestine?

Ah come on. This argument doesn't make the remotest bit of sense. People are buying the jersey online not realising Bohs is a real thing outside the jersey, and not realising money from it goes to Palestine?

How can you not "know who you have bought the jersey from"? The obvious "Bohs branded online store" is the Bohs website and they're quite clear money goes to Palestine from it. Pretty much any media piece about the jersey notes the contribution to Palestine as well (it's mentioned in this RTÉ article about Greta Thunberg wearing it for example) Given the media promo has been huge around it, I'd say there's very few who bought the jersey without knowing money was going to Palestine.

And again, they weren't duped. But I do think sbgawa is right to say Bohs are making money off a war. (And also right to say it'd make far more sense to just donate directly)

It's only in the last, 3/4 months it feels like it's escalating to the point where they are even losing support on the American right( I do think some of that shift is rooted in antisemitism but I could go on about that). Now the plan is to take full control of Gaza. That evolved from just Gaza City to the whole strip almost overnight.

Losing support in the American right isn't exactly the audience Bohs are playing to in fairness. Or indeed that anyone should be judging by. The thread I linked has posts from last October where Netanyahu was talking about taking over Gaza entirely, "from river to sea"

Bottom line - you're not correct when you say "I don't think anyone saw the escalation that Israel has undertaken". It was quite clear when the jersey was launched which way things were going.

[bohsmug]

You don't and can't know how many people bought it without knowing money goes to Palestine. You don't and can't know how many bought it from websites or market stalls selling "fake" copies of it, which is quite prominent. You can't and don't know how many people bought it without knowing or caring if Bohs are a football club. Some will google "Fontaines DC jersey" and click on the store to buy it, get the link on a twitter thread or reddit or whatever.

Must be at least 20 years now since it's been quite common for people who are into what ever is fashionable to wear band tshirts or even clothes with political symbols without knowing what the top represents to anybody who isn't into fashion. Oversized football shirts are going that way over the last 5 years.

Plenty of anecdotal evidence of people shouting Bohs related things to people in Bohs jerseys and them not having a clue who they're talking about. A non football fan I know was wearing it and said he "didn't know it was yer team" when I sent him a jokey "Mon the Bohs" message. He wasn't much aware of anything about the jersey. I'd forgotten that jersey was linked with aid to Palestine personally. I initially thought the discussion was about the much more obvious Bohs/Palestine jersey from the year before. People often don't know all that much about what they're wearing. Some do, some don't - you can't know with zero research.

[Nesta99]

Its a bit random for this thread but I'm finding it remarkable how quiet other Arab countries are about the current food crisis and Israeli actions. The pleads to let aid in are mainly from other parts of the world. The people dont deserve hunger as punishment for Hamas but Hamas poked the beast, they seriously underestimated the response which was particularly dumb when considering Netanyahu's precarious legal position and his government propped up by rightest hardlines, knowing if his government collapses and he is out of power he is straight in to a courtroom. He needed a protracted war to save his own bacon and it would not be a surprise if he expands to the West Bank. Hamas have plenty to answer for, they knew that their people would bear the burt of what would be an extreme response - it is only now that the response is making Israel's long term allies squirm. I feel for the Palestinan people but support of Hamas in any way is wrong and I have heard more than I would like spout pro Hamas rubbish while waving the Palestinian flag about.

[Roones26]

Its a bit random for this thread but I'm finding it remarkable how quiet other Arab countries are about the current food crisis and Israeli actions. The pleads to let aid in are mainly from other parts of the world. The people dont deserve hunger as punishment for Hamas but Hamas poked the beast, they seriously underestimated the response which was particularly dumb when considering Netanyahu's precarious legal position and his government propped up by rightest hardlines, knowing if his government collapses and he is out of power he is straight in to a courtroom. He needed a protracted war to save his own bacon and it would not be a surprise if he expands to the West Bank. Hamas have plenty to answer for, they knew that their people would bear the burt of what would be an extreme response - it is only now that the response is making Israel's long term allies squirm. I feel for the Palestinan people but support of Hamas in any way is wrong and I have heard more than I would like spout pro Hamas rubbish while waving the Palestinian flag about.

Except this just isnt true - Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan have been trying to coordinate an Arab nations and Gulf Nations response to reconstruct Gaza the moment there is a ceasefire

Also has been well pointed elsewhere you dont make peace with your mates so like I think a true peace process deals with the political actors in the region as they are

[pineapple stu]

You don't and can't know how many people bought it without knowing money goes to Palestine. You don't and can't know how many bought it from websites or market stalls selling "fake" copies of it, which is quite prominent. You can't and don't know how many people bought it without knowing or caring if Bohs are a football club. Some will google "Fontaines DC jersey" and click on the store to buy it, get the link on a twitter thread or reddit or whatever.

While those are technically true, I can give pretty good answers I'd say -

1) I'd say the vast majority of people would have known the money was going to Palestine. As I say, it's on practically every press release about it, and on the club site at point of purchase. And I don't see it for sale on the Fontaines website, so it's not as if people are buying from the band.
2) Fake copies are irrelevant - Bohs can make money off the Palestinian genocide, but even they don't get any money from fakes.
3 and 4) If you Google "Fontaines DC jersey", literally the first search returned is "Adult 2025 Third Jersey Fontaines D.C." and is on the Bohs website. And the vast majority of press about it starts off by referring to the Bohemians FC third kit.

Maybe some people don't know what it is - but I'd wager the vast majority do. it's very hard to avoid.

I think you're in a bit of denial there, and there's no real basis for your arguments.

[bohsmug]

The basis for my argument is nobody has a basis for the argument. So this is old men yelling at clouds stuff. The relevance to fake jerseys isn't that it's included in the jersey sales, it's that it's linked to the buyer's behaviour. We don't know the buyer behaviour, aside from this jersey is reaching beyond the typical target audience for LOI shirts. It's been very prominent at festivals, particularly those with Fontaines on the bill in UK & Ireland. We don't know what conversations led to those purchases. We don't know what was enticing about it. Somebody who has already decided they're buying the Fontaines jersey isn't necessarily going to read anything in the text beyond size and price - that's fairly common behaviour. You can't know what influence the Palestine donation had in making that decision because nobody has looked into it.

[pineapple stu]

We don't care about fake jerseys though if the argument is that Bohs are making money off a war. They're not making any money off fake jerseys.

And I'm suspicious of people who try shoehorn erroneous arguments or try the old "No-one can know anything so the whole debate is pointless" trick.

[sbgawa]

Bohs could kill the argument by doing what Dundalk did and give 100% of the third jersey profits to charity instead of keeping the vast majority of it. Dundalk can hold their heads up for doing the right thing, for bohs it just looks awful .

[bohsmug]

You'd have to understand what's driving the purchases (ie buyer behaviour) or have some kind of indication before jumping to the conclusion that it's support for Palestine that has led to jersey sales. If so then the 30% donation is the driver for the sales and the profit for Bohs.

The fake jerseys is an indicator of the demand. Those buyers weren't buying the jersey for the donation, how do we know what percentage of official purchases were driven by the donation? It's not erroneous, it's an indicator that at least in many cases the donation is not what's driving demand.

If the donation isn't the driver then it's not where the profit is coming from. I've seen more indicators that demand is from a kind of fashion or "cool" factor linked with the band more than anything. If sales have picked up over the music festival period that could be seen as another indicator of the band driving demand. The jersey is currently sold out due to recent demand.

[Dermobohs]

Bohs are making money off a genocide.
Jesus Christ but that’s such a crock of ********ology I don’t know where to even start.
Bohs planned the shirt, designed the shirt, got permission from the band, consulted with oneills to see how feasible it might be, and took advice on how much it would cost as the club would be bearing the entire cost plus the risk entailed.
So from the cost of the shirt oneills get a cut the charity takes imo a very healthy risk free no strings 30%, or roughly 23€ per sale.
I’d say Bohs are looking at roughly 20% as a profit, considering we are also handling massive distribution which also has to be paid for.
All just sounds like sour grapes and bitter sniping from non Bohs people who can’t believe we’re so good at selling stuff.
I make it five shirts making money for various good causes, yet this one because it’s sold 4million€ or so gets picked out, strange that.

[sbgawa]

Sorry but I don't know where you are coming up with your 20% profit for bohs...the stuff on the jersey is very clear 30% of PROFIT for charity so 70% for bohs. With Dundalk it was 100% charity. Profit is after jersey and distribution cost. If memory serves me it used to be 15% charity 85% bohs so they must be conscious of the percentage

[Dermobohs]

I would say 20% of the sale value of the shirt goes to Bohs after all costs are deducted.
I’m guessing, same as you.
Couldn’t be much more imo.
100% would not be viable on that scale of sales we’d lose our shirts as it were.
All very well if it’s a low key small selling one like Dundalk, and well done them on that one.
Anyway, it follows the pattern of ALL our other contributory shirts, and I’m sure the various good causes welcome it.
A pity all the clubs didn’t think of it.
Not our fault we have a marketing genius with a conscience as COO but there you are.

[sbgawa]

I'm not guessing the bohs press releases at the release of the jersey (google it) say 30% to charity of PROFITS. so 70% to bohs.
100% agree taht bohs are great at marketing and rovers and the rest of the league could learn a lot from them but taking 70% of the profits is to much imo. Even if u don't want to do a dundalk giving 100% to charity surely it should be at least an even split and you still make a fortune

[Dermobohs]

I’d say if 50% was viable it’d happen.
Something is better than nothing, and as I mentioned before we are a club totally dependent on memberships sponsors and, you guessed it, marketing. No debts written off , no shortfalls allowed.
So if we have to make big money on sales , c’est la vie, that’s how we are full time, in the premier, and affording to build up our underage women’s and community wings of the club.
The people’s club means the people have to somehow fund it.