Dundalk's pitch and ground discussion thread.

**RathfarnhamHoop** · 24/03/2016, 8:06 PM

now I wasn't born until after Milltown was knocked down so maybe my view of it has only been made from picture that flatter it but is it just me or does Oriel look like a bad version of Milltown?

**Nesta99** · 30/03/2016, 6:05 PM

Bad version? At the time that Milltown was open they were both among the better grounds in the league. If anything Oriel was in better nick at the time. They were similar in that the stand was of similar size and then a generally open type ground of terracing. Oriel has stood still and is now a relic of bygone era of football ground on this island and lower English leagues. There is a photo of Turners Cross from 1991 I think here somewhere and it was all grass banking but now is much they type and size of ground we all should have.

**White Horse** · 30/03/2016, 6:34 PM

Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop

now I wasn't born until after Milltown was knocked down so maybe my view of it has only been made from picture that flatter it but is it just me or does Oriel look like a bad version of Milltown?

They were both from a similar era so shared some charateristics, particularly when Oriel Park had the larger terrace at the shed side. Milltown was a much bigger stadium though.

**oriel** · 30/03/2016, 8:03 PM

I been to Milltown about 10 times before it closed in 87, without doubt one of my favourite ever LOI grounds. I loved the deep terrace and high roof all along one side, almost like Tolka back in the day but with a much longer roof. Behind both goals were open terracing but proper terracing with crash barriers. On the camera side the stand was probably 2/3 the size of oriel park now, but not as high. To be fair that side is almost similar to oriel park before any new seating was installed.

I always thought Milltown had the appearance of a div 3 ground in England (now lge 1), if memory serves me right, the pitch was usually of a very high standard too. I think floodlights only went in quite late though, maybe only for its last 4 or 5 years, always thought that strange as Oriel got lights in 1967, not sure when Tolka got lights but I do remember back in the day when all teams played on Sunday's, that only oriel, dalymount, possibly tolka and later mill town had 3.30 kick offs all year round. The rest were 2.15 in the winter and 3.30 sept to October, then from start of March.

Edit. I forgot Milltown also had a little stand behind the goal, in the corner of the entrance side too.

**RathfarnhamHoop** · 30/03/2016, 8:24 PM

Yeah I think its probably a bit unfair of me to compare photos of a stadium in its prime to a stadium that has been around a while needs some work done on it. It was just I saw some photos of Milltown the other day and thought that it looked very similar to Oriel with the small stand on one side and a covered standing area on the other side. Except the terraces behind each goal i thought put it ahead of Oriel but again probably unfair comparing the two of them.
I have heard that the Milltown pitch was on par with the best in England at one point and a few former Rovers players I know said it played a part in them signing for Rovers because they liked to play on the ground and it was the best pitch in Ireland to do that on.

**Nesta99** · 30/03/2016, 9:50 PM

Ah I dont think its an unfair comparison as there were definitely similarities. One is gone and the other has changed little really since '87 and before even bar cosmetic improvement. Dont recall much about the pitch in Milltown but as this thread has had mentioned only half or so of games are played on good/bad surfaces but I dont recall it being mentioned tbh. It is hard to consider that during the mid to late 80's and prior these were considered acceptable and even modern, certainly by irish standards. Opinion on what a modern ground was changed dramatically after Bradford, Hysel, and Hillsborough obviously. Not that with attendances here at the time crowd congestion or crush wouldnt have been top of the list of safety concerns. That said I still cant imagine 18,000 odd people in Oriel on a couple of European nights - just seems nuts looking at the old place now or the temporary extension of the stand being planks on blocks (or maybe building scaffold?) when you consider that 5000 at the league decider with Cork seemed pretty packed.

**wonder88** · 31/03/2016, 12:03 AM

During one of my first games in Terryland I remember overhearing some men near me describe Ballybofey as a great soccer ground, which compared to where we were was true I suppose. As Oriel park is proving these days facilities are not the most important factor in attracting crowds to LoI matches. Also in relation to kick off times, was 2.30 the early-ist even in the Dec/Jan months? Pats one season fixed some games for Sunday morning when live English soccer on tv started, in order to boast crowds numbers. Any of their fans know how long this experiment lasted?

**oriel** · 31/03/2016, 9:11 AM

Kick off times for most clubs without floodlights, all bar oriel park, dalymount, tolka and later milltown, varied from 2.15 in deep winter to 2.30, then changed to 3.30 in brighter months to follow suit with the floodlight grounds. All on Sunday's. I think the changeover to night time kick offs was around the same time as sky came onboard to show live TV in England as I think clubs got compensation towards their initial floodlights that were put up.

I'm not sure when Dundalk changed to night time first,maybe around 1991, I remember most of the double winning season of 1987/88 played on Sunday afternoons. They also went with Thussday nights and this continued right up to their last season the FD (7 continuous mostly dreadful seasons too) and changed to Friday nights from first season back in 2009.

Interesting point someone made on better facilities and if this would attract more crowds, I think Dundalk are probably close to their max average with the current avg of 3,300, however better facilities would have a better chance of keeping this at that level for leaner seasons, and ofcourse what is on offer to away fans going on the terrace is simply not good enough presently.

**Nesta99** · 01/04/2016, 12:32 AM

I'd love to know a bit more about the SKY money for floodlights back early '90s. Was it money to the FAI/League that could be borrowed against to install or upgrade existing floodlights? I have a vague recollection of it at the time but have no idea of the reasoning. I also think that prizemoney was withheld or part of it to repay the SKY 'loan' as some sort of deal fell through and the SKY money didnt materialise in the end. Was about 12 years when this chat was going on so struggling with the detail.

**wonder88** · 01/04/2016, 6:49 PM

All clubs got floodlights at the time, so money must have come from Sky, but I have no details on how it was distributed to clubs etc. Do anyone know the year when games moved to Friday night and was it a central league decision? Also UCD had their games on Thursday for many seasons, in order to catch the students before they went home I suppose. Other pick Saturday night of course. It be interesting to find out where is the UCD support coming from, students, ex students, staff or local area?
There was live tv English soccer before Sky, ITV used to broadcast on Sunday afternoon and some clubs used to try and avoid a clash with that as well.

**Hitman** · 01/04/2016, 7:27 PM

Have we had the positioning of the away dugout in Oriel yet?

**White Horse** · 01/04/2016, 7:38 PM

That is a new one. Kenny Shiels is out with a tape measure at half time though.

**Nesta99** · 01/04/2016, 9:18 PM

Away dugout close enough for Caulfield and Fenlon to get themselves heard by the 4th official but sure we can add it to the list. Dugouts in United Park are practically both in the same half of the pitch so there will be fun when Derry visits in the Cup.

**Charlie Darwin** · 02/04/2016, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by Nesta99

Away dugout close enough for Caulfield and Fenlon to get themselves heard by the 4th official but sure we can add it to the list. Dugouts in United Park are practically both in the same half of the pitch so there will be fun when Derry visits in the Cup.

You could put the dugout across the street from the stadium and it'd still be close enough for Nutsy to make himself heard by the fourth official.

**Nesta99** · 02/04/2016, 2:02 AM

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**Ezeikial** · 02/04/2016, 9:50 AM

Oriel is the worst pitch in the country - says McCormack

Read more: http://www.derryjournal.com/sport/de...#ixzz44f3KRQSl

Conor McCormack gets red carded for the 3rd successive match against Dundalk

The pitch and the poor away section are clearly to blame

**El-Pietro** · 02/04/2016, 10:17 AM

You can't honestly think he deserved that second yellow. It wasn't even a foul. Not even close.

**White Horse** · 02/04/2016, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by El-Pietro

You can't honestly think he deserved that second yellow. It wasn't even a foul. Not even close.

He could have been booked for several other fouls but the one he was sent off for wasn't a booking. Ref had lost the game at that stage.

**Ezeikial** · 02/04/2016, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by El-Pietro

You can't honestly think he deserved that second yellow. It wasn't even a foul. Not even close.

I had a poor view of that one, so I don't really know about that incident.

McCormacks record of a hatrick of red cards is hardly even matched by Dermot Keely in his hacking prime

**Nesta99** · 02/04/2016, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Ezeikial

I had a poor view of that one, so I don't really know about that incident.

McCormacks record of a hatrick of red cards is hardly even matched by Dermot Keely in his hacking prime

You must have been in the away section so or sitting beside Shiels, or sitting in the away section of the stand...