Big story about a breakaway to form an All ireland league in the Star today

**Slash/ED** · 23/11/2004, 7:56 PM

You don't want to risk p�ssing off the Northerners and having them pull out of the deal. 8 each way works, if they're not good enough they'll get relegated.

**Stevo Da Gull** · 23/11/2004, 8:14 PM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

In reality, what's the difference between a regular cup involving all teams from both sides of the border and a league that does the same ?

If a league wouldn't work, why should a cup ? The same issues would be there regardless.

I just think that the two FA's would run into to much trouble organising a league- as well as the whole National team problem- and that a cup would be easier to organize.

**Risteard** · 23/11/2004, 8:34 PM

8 from each association leaves 7 teams from the Republic.
hmmmmm . . . . .

**Slash/ED** · 23/11/2004, 9:17 PM

Originally Posted by sduffy

Also remember that this is the guy that give us the 10-team Premier Division.

And that's a good idea and far better than the 12 team play eachother 3 times rubbish we will have next year.

**thejollyrodger** · 23/11/2004, 9:25 PM

I think this idea is boll�cks tbh. The FA's on both parts of the island are crap at organising things. The league could be a lot better than it is but isnt because no one really knows how to properly organise it. The Swiss are brilliant at this kind of stuff and would have the E.L ship shape in a season or two.

The odds of the FAI and IFA gettting one league up and running and not making a mess of it is pretty slim. Too many back stabbing and small mindedness. Even if they do stop all that, there is nothing to say they actaully get the number of teams right in the new top division and hold on to the European places.

Its European places that are going to really develop the clubs here and there is no point in loosing them. Developing the Sentanta Cup is really the best idea going. Increase the prize money for the winner and runner up and expand it in to Scotland/Wales if needs be for competition.

**dancinpants** · 23/11/2004, 9:29 PM

Originally Posted by sduffy

If Roddy is planning to go ahead without the backing of the FAI & IFA then the guy must be clinically stupid and he should have been given a column inch in the paper and not 2 bloody pages.

I never heard such shyte in all my life!!

Also remember that this is the guy that give us the 10-team Premier Division.

Jim, leave the running of the league to people that may have a clue about what they are talking about.

Now thats a constructive post if ever I seen one!!

Are you sure yer not just ****ed because, the season 3 got relegated to make way for the 10 team league you missed out on staying up by a point?...oh the joy!!

**crc** · 23/11/2004, 10:41 PM

The populations aren't equal (4 million and 1.7 million); but remember, the interest isn't equal either. There's a lot more interest in (Association) Football in the north than in the south, relatively speaking. The north is also more urbanised than the south with quite a few large towns. And in any case, as has been said before the crap teams will soon be relegated.

As it happens the Swiss league has only ten teams, for a population of over 7 million.

**A face** · 24/11/2004, 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by dancinpants

Are you sure yer not just ****ed because, the season 3 got relegated to make way for the 10 team league you missed out on staying up by a point?...oh the joy!!

What ... you mean like ... sour grapes or something ??

**Macy** · 24/11/2004, 7:44 AM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Hang on - did any of you lot making snide comments about Jim Roddy even bother to read the article ? I sincerely doubt it, cuz if you did you'd know he didn't claim anyone was living off of either Derry or Cork. The only 2 examples he gave of 'big clubs' that others were feeding off were Shels and Linfield. No mention of his own club - Derry, and to his detriment no mention of the biggest club in our league, Cork. So get your facts right before throwing everything else he said out the window and making a turkey of yourself....

He was correct in using Linfield as an example of a big club that others feed off, as they have a big fanbase; wrong in the case of Shels as we all know. However - Jim Roddy himself knows the league as well, if not better, than we all do, so I'm guessing he used Shels as an example for a reason - i.e. Joe Average punter reading the sports section of the paper without any knowledge of the Eircom League would assume Shels were a big club because of what they did in Europe this year.

Anyways - stop attributing ballax to him that he didn't say.

Okay I take it back about Derry, but he did say Shels and Cork.

There are too many clubs vying for government money and too many surviving off the likes of Shelbourne, Cork, Linfield and Glentoran

There's enough ways to justify the league without saying screw the little clubs, they only survive because of the big clubs. Especially when it's patently not true, in the eL anyway.

**sadloserkid** · 24/11/2004, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by crc

As it happens the Swiss league has only ten teams, for a population of over 7 million.

The Swiss first division has 10 teams, that's not the same thing.

**Poor Student** · 24/11/2004, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by crc

The populations aren't equal (4 million and 1.7 million); but remember, the interest isn't equal either. There's a lot more interest in (Association) Football in the north than in the south, relatively speaking. The north is also more urbanised than the south with quite a few large towns.

And one of those large towns is Derry of which Derry City count for the majority of the town. When you think about it, it woud be 9-7 in their favour if we considered Derry as one of the El teams going in.

**dcfcsteve** · 24/11/2004, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Poor Student

And one of those large towns is Derry of which Derry City count for the majority of the town. When you think about it, it woud be 9-7 in their favour if we considered Derry as one of the El teams going in.

It's a mere quirk of history that the Brandywell is 2 miles the wrong side of the border. Could easily have happened to Harps, Dundalk, Monaghan etc.

So none of this 9-7 nonesense : we're Eircom League through-and-through.

**OneRedArmy** · 24/11/2004, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by sduffy

Jim, leave the running of the league to people that may have a clue about what they are talking about.

WHo are these mythical people? I certainly haven't come across any yet

**Poor Student** · 24/11/2004, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

It's a mere quirk of history that the Brandywell is 2 miles the wrong side of the border. Could easily have happened to Harps, Dundalk, Monaghan etc.

So none of this 9-7 nonesense : we're Eircom League through-and-through.

It's no slight on you but when we're talking about things like population you're part of the 1.7m.

**dcfcsteve** · 24/11/2004, 1:09 PM

Originally Posted by Poor Student

It's no slight on you but when we're talking about things like population you're part of the 1.7m.

I'm exiled in London, so unfortunately I'm not (unless it's Christmas time....) !

**OneRedArmy** · 24/11/2004, 2:22 PM

Originally Posted by Poor Student

It's no slight on you but when we're talking about things like population you're part of the 1.7m.

I'm not picking a row, but I'd say a fair percentage of our fanbase, as with a lot of people born or formerly living in Derry in general, live across the border in Donegal. As Steve said, its only 2 miles.

As people have said elsewhere, using population as a proxy isn't always a recipe for success, or else Galway, Limerick and Sligo would be more successful than they are now.

Unless of course you want to start from scratch and go down a franchise basis............

**CuanaD** · 24/11/2004, 5:16 PM

Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

I think this idea is boll�cks tbh. The FA's on both parts of the island are crap at organising things. The league could be a lot better than it is but isnt because no one really knows how to properly organise it. The Swiss are brilliant at this kind of stuff and would have the E.L ship shape in a season or two.

The odds of the FAI and IFA gettting one league up and running and not making a mess of it is pretty slim. Too many back stabbing and small mindedness. Even if they do stop all that, there is nothing to say they actaully get the number of teams right in the new top division and hold on to the European places.

Its European places that are going to really develop the clubs here and there is no point in loosing them. Developing the Sentanta Cup is really the best idea going. Increase the prize money for the winner and runner up and expand it in to Scotland/Wales if needs be for competition.

I'm with you on this one - expansion of the Setanta is a better way forward. In a few years we could see something like:
Seperate Premier divisions (N&S) with 22games (12 teams - home & away) Lower divisions something similar. Also keep the seperate cups (probably get rid of the league cup). This way each jurisdiction keeps their own European places.

Followed by a 10 team all ireland league (again home & away) - 5 best from each league.
Coupled with a league Cup set-up for the other teams - with 8-team reigonalised groups (Home & away), followed by top 2/3/4 going into the last 16/8.

Each team gets at least 15 home games per season

(The figures used to work out perfectly until NI expanded their leagues, ah well)

**dcfcsteve** · 24/11/2004, 10:56 PM

Beyond FAI/IFA incompetence (more a reason for a change in admin, rather than not changing stucture...), the main justification you appear to be giving for keeping the 2 leagues separate is the idea of loosing European places. This issue is a COMPLETE RED HERRING.

Each jurisdiction currently has 4 European slots - Champs League, UEFA x 2 and Inter-toto. That's a total of 8 Euro slots shared between the 2.

If there was a single league on this island - in straight-forward numerical terms those 8 slots would get reduced to 4, so yes - there would be less European slots available to the island of Ireland as a whole. But in reality it wouldn't change a single thing.

However - there aren't 8 European slots available to any one team in Ireland : just 1 of 4 slots, regardless of which league a team plays in. Under an all-island league, every team would still be playing for 1 of 4 European slots. Therefore, teams would NOT be worse off with regards to European entry - they'd be in the same boat they are now, with the same number of chances of European qualification. No-one would be worse off in terms of qualification opportunities, so we wouldn't in reality as clubs be losing anything.

**Longfordian** · 24/11/2004, 11:10 PM

Well there'd be more teams competing for the same amount of places so they'd have to be worse off wouldn't they?

**dcfcsteve** · 24/11/2004, 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by Longfordian

Well there'd be more teams competing for the same amount of places so they'd have to be worse off wouldn't they?

That arguement could also be used against the change to a 12-team Eircom Premier Division. There's now 2 more teams trying to get our 4 Euro slots - so in that respect everyone in the Eicom League is worse off. It could also have been used against the 1985 expansion of the League of Ireland, the recent major expansion of the Irish League etc etc - they all increased competition for European slots, either immediately (bigger qualifying divisions) or in the longer term (a larger number of clubs in senior football working towards trophies/European qualification). So yes - there's more competition. But we've been increasing competition for Euro slots outside the realms of an All-island league anyway, and it hasn't been raised as an issue in those instances. Why is it therefore only an issue now ?

As an aside - fear of increased competition is nothing more than an excuse in favour of maintaining the mediocrity of football in Ireland. If our teams were that worried about not being the best in Ireland, then we shouldn't even be trying to progress in Europe.

European slots are therefore a complete non-issue....