Big story about a breakaway to form an All ireland league in the Star today

**Longfordian** · 22/11/2004, 2:19 PM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

And given Derry's performances in the second half of this season, and the fact that we finished 6th in the strongest league on the island, I don't think Jim has much to worry about on relegation...

)

Actually, you havent finished 6th yet, all we need is a point tonight to finish above ye in 6th..not that it really matters of course bu still just to be factually correct..

**dcfcsteve** · 22/11/2004, 2:26 PM

There would obviously need to be some format for promotion and relegation to and from an all-island league 'Premier Division', or else it would be stale and self-defeating. No-one is talking about it being a closed shop.

There's 34 other senior clubs - some of whom have very good facilities and would fall just short of inclusion in the country's top 16, so there would obviously have to be some sort of structure including most of these underneath the all-island league. I still argue strongly that some of the weaker clubs - mostly the two-bit ones in the North introduced in the last couple of years - would need to be weeded-out from even that secondary structure, and back down to Junior football where they were only a handful of years ago.

And SLK - to be fair, I think you're being far too cynical about Jim Roddy's motives. Just because our club happens to be based in Derry, does that instantly mean that we can't be motivated in this by anything other than self-interest ? Finn Harps, Monaghan and arguably Dundalk would also benefit hugely from an all-island league in terms of travel costs. Would they be equally guilty of self-interest if the idea progressed and they also come on board with it....?

**Schumi** · 22/11/2004, 2:39 PM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

I still argue strongly that some of the weaker clubs - mostly the two-bit ones in the North introduced in the last couple of years - would need to be weeded-out from even that secondary structure, and back down to Junior football where they were only a handful of years ago.

If they're so weak, they'll drop away naturally to the NI 2nd division (or whatever is in place below the top regionalised tier) where they won't do anyone any harm.

**brandy86** · 22/11/2004, 3:43 PM

I have just scanned in the article, anyone who wants to read it can do so HERE!!!!

**Schumi** · 22/11/2004, 4:09 PM

Interesting read, thanks brandy86.

**dcfcsteve** · 22/11/2004, 7:54 PM

Thanks Brandy86. Good article - glad to see things are going on behind the scenes without the FAI getting their incompetent hands involved.

**Stevo Da Gull** · 22/11/2004, 8:14 PM

For some reason I think this -although a good idea- will never materialise.

What I would like to see is The Setanta, FAI Cup and the IFA Cup(if that's what its called) all scrapped and replaced with a mixed organization Cup and the winner being guarenteed a UEFA Cup spot as well as s*it loads of cash.

What do ye think?

**dcfcsteve** · 22/11/2004, 8:32 PM

In reality, what's the difference between a regular cup involving all teams from both sides of the border and a league that does the same ?

If a league wouldn't work, why should a cup ? The same issues would be there regardless.

**thejollyrodger** · 22/11/2004, 8:44 PM

thanx brandy86 !

intresting read but I wouldn't take it as being what is actual going to happen. That tabloid is a rag at times.

I think having one all Ireland Cup is a great idea. That is something that would really work !! Having big prize money at the end like �500,000 for the winner and something smaller for whoever came second would really get the clubs attention.

Pratical issues such as travelling, loosing european places etc would be minimised.

**Slash/ED** · 22/11/2004, 9:12 PM

Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

That tabloid is a rag at times.

That may be true, but the quotes are all quotes from Jim Roddy and he says everything. No matter where it appeared, there's alot in this story.

**crc** · 22/11/2004, 9:28 PM

Ironically, the English Premier League could be the saviour of football in Ireland!

The EPL was a breakaway by the top English clubs because they say that they weren't getting a fair deal under the existing arrangements. However the FA saw that a complete break-away would be devastating for them (losing your top clubs is NOT a good thing - look at the state of Welsh football) and managed to keep the Premier League within their structure, but allowed the Premier League to negotiate TV money and the rest.

A breakaway league would be good (although I'm slightly sceptical about it coming to fruition). The European element doesn't matter so much - Apart from Shels (this year only) and Cork to some extent, the European trips don't bring in lots of cash and in many cases, cost the clubs money.

Without viable leagues the FAI and IFA will have problems with the governing bodies. FAI/IFA would have to divert money into the leagues to keep them going or risk not having national leagues at all.

I don't see all this happening, but it can be used as a bargaining chip by the clubs proposing to break away.
Sixteen is a good number, but qualification should ideally be on the basis of merit only. I also think that we could even sustain an all-island 2nd level division too (with Munster, Leinster, Connaught-Ulster, NI) local leagues below that. A clear pyramid, with promotion and relegation all the way down is what's needed. This gives large population centres (like Galway or Limerick) the opportunity to join the party (if their teams are good enough), while not punishing successful small teams like Longford Town or Limavady United.

The top 8 in each league should qualify initially. Thereafter, 16th and 15th place would be relegated automatically and 14th and 13th would play-off against 3rd and 4th in the lower division. This give the possibility of high turnover in early years to rectify any imballances that came about by strictly imposing the 8+8 qualifying model.

**paudie** · 23/11/2004, 12:36 PM

I agree with crc,
Initial qualification has to be on merit ie top 8 from each league.

Promotion and relegation will mean the best teams will end up in the top division anyway.

Not sure what Roddy means by Shelbourne keeping "small clubs" afloat. How would that be? With their travelling army of 100 fans?

In fairness Linfield and Glentoran do have good away support and small clubs in the North do make money from their visits.

**Macy** · 23/11/2004, 1:08 PM

Just to clarify, the Premiership broke away from the Football League. The FA were the governing body of football, but the Football League (as the name suggests) ran the league divisions 1-4. It was the FA wanting increased power, as much as the clubs wanting more dosh, that drove it. I don't really think it's an effective comparison to what could happen here.

Footballing critea is obviously the most desirable for the initial top 8. However, I would tie it in with a full, non-fudged A licence as well.

As others, I have to laugh - all us lesser clubs feeding off Shels, Derry and Cork. It's hard to take any of the rest of it seriously if he genuinely belives that those clubs are proping up the league. Don't know which smillie to use, this one

or this one

given that he's supposedly laying down the way forward.

**dcfcsteve** · 23/11/2004, 3:04 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

Just to clarify, the Premiership broke away from the Football League. The FA were the governing body of football, but the Football League (as the name suggests) ran the league divisions 1-4. It was the FA wanting increased power, as much as the clubs wanting more dosh, that drove it. I don't really think it's an effective comparison to what could happen here.

Footballing critea is obviously the most desirable for the initial top 8. However, I would tie it in with a full, non-fudged A licence as well.

As others, I have to laugh - all us lesser clubs feeding off Shels, Derry and Cork. It's hard to take any of the rest of it seriously if he genuinely belives that those clubs are proping up the league. Don't know which smillie to use, this one

or this one

given that he's supposedly laying down the way forward.

Hang on - did any of you lot making snide comments about Jim Roddy even bother to read the article ? I sincerely doubt it, cuz if you did you'd know he didn't claim anyone was living off of either Derry or Cork. The only 2 examples he gave of 'big clubs' that others were feeding off were Shels and Linfield. No mention of his own club - Derry, and to his detriment no mention of the biggest club in our league, Cork. So get your facts right before throwing everything else he said out the window and making a turkey of yourself....

He was correct in using Linfield as an example of a big club that others feed off, as they have a big fanbase; wrong in the case of Shels as we all know. However - Jim Roddy himself knows the league as well, if not better, than we all do, so I'm guessing he used Shels as an example for a reason - i.e. Joe Average punter reading the sports section of the paper without any knowledge of the Eircom League would assume Shels were a big club because of what they did in Europe this year.

Anyways - stop attributing ballax to him that he didn't say.

**pete** · 23/11/2004, 3:20 PM

4 european slots for an all-ireland league isn't a big blocking point as the current setup won't sustain a 10 or 12 team premier el division with fulltime clubs so need the added commercial benefits of an all-ireland league to malke fulltime status viable for non-european teams.

Can't see all-ireland league for at least a few years as more likely to see expanded Setanta Cup when a success next season.

**Poor Student** · 23/11/2004, 5:14 PM

Why would it be 8 teams each when our population is over 2 even 3 times theirs? Wouldn't 10 and 6 be fairer?

**thejollyrodger** · 23/11/2004, 7:08 PM

good point Poor Student ! there is no way some of those northern clubs are as good as the clubs down south

**ShelsTim** · 23/11/2004, 7:38 PM

In the spirit of equity we should go for 8+8, the poorer teams will be relegated at the end of the season anyway.

This league, while I'm all for it, won't neccesarily solve all the eL's problems overnight. If someone won't come out for Limerick v Kilkenny, why woud they come out for Limerick v Limivady, to gawp at some Northies? We'd need a proper, stream-lined management system, not the FAI/IFA beaurocrats. Also, we'd need a proper merger of the two organisations, none of this regionalised league bolox, running one All-Ireland league, then 14 different regionalised leagues is just pointless and would encourage the belief that these league are seperate from the big one and so not worth supporting. One cup competition and one national team, it's the only way to go. Northern Ireland have great players and if you add them to the Republic squad we'd have an almigty team.

And if we got a proper organisation of the best from the IFA and FAI, we could have a real, working league that could challenge the big boys.

**Poor Student** · 23/11/2004, 7:47 PM

Originally Posted by ShelsTim

In the spirit of equity we should go for 8+8, the poorer teams will be relegated at the end of the season anyway.

Depends on your vision of equality. To me that is treating the two groups unequally as the North would be well over represented. Population of the island according to last two census 5.7m. 4m Republic, 1.7m North. North's population equals roughly 30% (actually slightly less), 30% of 16 = 5 (actually slightly less), so 6 is even more than they'd deserve population wise.

**ShelsTim** · 23/11/2004, 7:51 PM

Big poulation doesn't mean good team, e.g. Limerick, Galway. There's no real way of deciding which teams are better except through a complicated play-off system as someone mentioned, so just have 8+8 and it'll sort itself out in a year or two.