Shels transfers

[Slash/ED]

Yes I know about two teams in Norway, but a country that size, like Ireland can only support one big club.
In Ireland, the CL money would be enough to ensure domination.

Other, similar sized countries, have had the same thing happen though and the dominance hasn't materialised. Norway is the exception, not the rule.

I know that a plan doesn't always work out, but if it did, the league would be fcuked. Thus, go back to my first post in this thread and my words "It is A PRIORITY to stop $hels from getting 3 in a row". It is up to all the other clubs to stop $hels, because if they win the league again next season, they can really start to pull away from every other club in the country, and the win the league every year scenario will come true.

I don't think we will, the only way we'll pull away from the rest of the league is if the rest of the league lets us.

[pineapple stu]

Other, similar sized countries, have had the same thing happen though and the dominance hasn't materialised. Norway is the exception, not the rule.

There are a few - mainly in Eastern European countries, like Albania, Armenia, Lithuania, Latvia, Slovenia, Greece, Moldova, Poland... Granted, many of those countries only had clubs qualifying for, say, the Third or Second Qualifying Round, but there seems to be a point of no return for a few leagues which we must be reaching.

However, Norway and Latvia are unique in the number of times in a row the league has been won by the one team. Most of the other countries have a slip-up every third year or so. Even Maribor in Slovenia lost the league for the first time in eight years last season. Interesting to see that Rosenborg only won on goals scored this season though!

That said, it's not Shels' problem, so there's no point them defending it. It's the other clubs' problems. No point whingeing at Shels or worrying about it - it's up to the other clubs do try and do something about it.

[eoinh]

There are a few - mainly in Eastern European countries, like Albania, Armenia, Lithuania, Latvia, Slovenia, Greece, Moldova, Poland... Granted, many of those countries only had clubs qualifying for, say, the Third or Second Qualifying Round, but there seems to be a point of no return for a few leagues which we must be reaching.

Absolute crap

No. of championship winners in each of these countries in the last ten years.

Albania - 3 SK Tirana, Vllaznia Shkodër, Dinamo Tiranë
Lithuania - 4 FBK Kaunas, Zalgiris Kaunas, Zalgiris Vilnius, Inkaras Kaunas
Latvia 1 - Skonto
Slovenia 4 - ND Gorica, Maribor Branik, HIT Gorica, Olimpija Ljubljana
Greece 2 Panathanaikos, Olympympiakos (limited number of winners but this is a trait of Greek football that can be traced to back before the champions league and indeed the european cup).
Moldova 3 - Sheriff, Zimbru and Constructorul Chisinau
Poland 5 - Wisla Kraków, Legia Warszawa, Polonia Warszawa, LKS-Ptak Lódz and Widzew Lódz

[eoinh]

Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal in England.
Celtic/Rangers in Scotland.
Rosenbourg in Norway.
Bayern in Germany
Juventus, AC and Inter Milan in Italy
and on and on and on.
These teams have the most money, they DOMINATE their leagues.

Its funny how perception plays a part rather than facts

Germany - The current champions are Werder Bremen. They have had about 4 diffrent champions in the last ten years.

Italy - They have had about 4 different winners in the last ten years. You mention Inter as a big club. Its about 16 years since they last won the Italian championship. The last time they won the European Cup I wasnt even born. Parma, Sampdoria, Napoli, Lazio, Roma etc have all been more succcessful in this time

England - Chelsea for all their wealth havent won anything yet.

Scotland - Yes but these two started dominating the league before they got into the champions league.

Norway - The only case. But as most Norwegians willl tell you they are a fading force. They have left behind them a raised domestic game, better stadiums all round Norway and a well attended, fully TV covered league.

[Poor Student]

Slovenia 4 - ND Gorica, Maribor Branik, HIT Gorica, Olimpija Ljubljana

Lol, both Goricas are the one club! And Slovenia is not Eastern Europe, it's in the Western half or politically Central. Maribor did use the money to dominate Slovenia but have run out with lack of follow up in European success and corruption.

[patsh]

Its funny how perception plays a part rather than facts

Oh for God's sake.....
Are you telling me thats it's only my perception thats telling me that the clubs with money dominate their leagues?
That in actual fact, clubs without money are winning their national leagues?

I really wish you had read my posts, Eoin, and not replied on the basis of what you percieved I was saying.
ONE LAST TIME:
The clubs with most money dominate their leagues.
The only real way that clubs in this country can get access to a major source of money is through the CL.
To get to the CL, you must win our league, and by so doing you get access to that money. It becomes a vicious circle, you win the eL, get into the Cl, get the money, buy the players to keep winning the eL, get into the CL, get the money to keep winning the eL, get into the CL.........
I really don't think this is such a hard concept to fathom.
It's not happened just yet, but if $hels get a good draw, get as far as they did this season and get a big name, they will be earning the type of money that NO OTHER CLUB in the eL can hope to match.

[eoinh]

Lol, both Goricas are the one club! And Slovenia is not Eastern Europe, it's in the Western half or politically Central. Maribor did use the money to dominate Slovenia but have run out with lack of follow up in European success and corruption.

Where did I say Slovenia is from Eastern Europe?

[eoinh]

Oh for God's sake.....
Are you telling me thats it's only my perception thats telling me that the clubs with money dominate their leagues?
That in actual fact, clubs without money are winning their national leagues?

I really wish you had read my posts, Eoin, and not replied on the basis of what you percieved I was saying.

You keep saying this.
There are in fact plenty of examples of clubs around europe without money winning leagues in their own country.

Germany -

Werder Bremen for example last season. Kaiserlautern another recent winner. None of these are rich german clubs.

You supplied a list of clubs that dominate the league in their own country because they keep getting into the CL.

Some of the clubs you pointed out for eg Inter Milan havent won their league in years. Its been the 80's since they last won Serie A. Its easier for clubs with money to do well obviously but good work, planning and determination dont go amiss either.

[patsh]

You keep saying this.
There are in fact plenty of examples of clubs around europe without money winning leagues in their own country.

Germany -

Werder Bremen for example last season. Kaiserlautern another recent winner. None of these are rich german clubs.

So because TWO clubs in ONE country, that are not as rich as some of the clubs, thats means I'm wrong?

You supplied a list of clubs that dominate the league in their own country because they keep getting into the CL.

NO I did NOT. Read my post again. I listed clubs that dominate their leagues because they have MONEY.

Some of the clubs you pointed out for eg Inter Milan havent won their league in years. Its been the 80's since they last won Serie A. Its easier for clubs with money to do well obviously but good work, planning and determination dont go amiss either.

It's not for the want of trying. Inter would be a major contender every season, based entirely on the budget.
Tbh now, Eoin, you are nit picking here. You simply keep repeating that it won't happen and throw out a few selective statistics to try to back this up. You know as well as I do that you can use statistics any way you want to justify any point of view.
I'm specifically talking about $hels and the eL. They have just won the eL title for the second time in a row and have bought 3 of the best players in the country, thus making them even more formidable for next season.
As I already said, it hasn't happened yet, but there is a real, live possibility that they can go on to dominate.
Your argument does not even allow that this possibility could happen, which is head in the sand stuff as far as I can see.

[pineapple stu]

Absolute crap

No. of championship winners in each of these countries in the last ten years.

Albania - 3 SK Tirana, Vllaznia Shkodër, Dinamo Tiranë
Lithuania - 4 FBK Kaunas, Zalgiris Kaunas, Zalgiris Vilnius, Inkaras Kaunas
Latvia 1 - Skonto
Slovenia 4 - ND Gorica, Maribor Branik, HIT Gorica, Olimpija Ljubljana
Greece 2 Panathanaikos, Olympympiakos (limited number of winners but this is a trait of Greek football that can be traced to back before the champions league and indeed the european cup).
Moldova 3 - Sheriff, Zimbru and Constructorul Chisinau
Poland 5 - Wisla Kraków, Legia Warszawa, Polonia Warszawa, LKS-Ptak Lódz and Widzew Lódz

You can look at it that way if you want. But it makes far more sense to highlight which clubs have won titles regularly and which are one-offs. Just because a different team won the title ten years ago doesn’t make a league competitive. The following makes much more sense –

Albania – SK Tirana have won seven of the last ten titles – including the last two – and are currently five points clear after 12 games
Lithuania – FBK and Zalgiris Kaunas are the same team. They have just sealed their sixth title in a row.
Latvia – Skonto have won all 14 league titles.
Slovenia – The two Goricas, as Poor Student pointed out, are the same team. Last year was the first time in eight years Maribor didn’t win.
Greece – Panathanaikos and Olympiakos have won every title for 11 years. AEK have won only eight less titles than Panathanaikos, but none since 1994 – their longest ever spell without winning a title since the national league came in.
Moldova – Sherriff Tiraspol have won each of the last four titles and are seven points clear with a game in hand after playing 13 games
Poland – Wisla Krakow have won the last two titles – and four of the last six – and are currently eight points clear after 13 games. Before 2000, they had won on title in 50 years. From 1990/91 to 1999/00, seven different teams won the title. From 2000/01 to 2003/04 (and it looks like you can include 2004/05 as well now), two teams have won, one of those four of the five. That’s called a trend and is far more meaningful than a list of title winners as you posted.

Maybe it will happen in Ireland, maybe it won't. But there are far more than just the one example around (bear in mind I'm not talking about the extreme condition of Rosenborg, but of the next step down).

[Poor Student]

Where did I say Slovenia is from Eastern Europe?

Stu did. Wasn't directed at you Eoin.

[pineapple stu]

Stu did. Wasn't directed at you Eoin.

It is part of the old Yugoslavia - seems to be out the east of Europe to me!

[Poor Student]

It is part of the old Yugoslavia - seems to be out the east of Europe to me!

It was, but seeming as it broke off it can rightly be seen as what it is, Central European. The Western half of Europe begins in Dalmatia in Croatia. Slovenia is not Eastern or Balkan. Don't mean to be pedantic but I have big ties to the country so I know. It's kind of like calling us the British Isles only worse because it's totally wrong. Politically and culturally they are Central, it spent most of its history as part of Austria. It was abd renaims the richest most advanced part of the former Yugoslavia. Not much different to here in a lot of standards.

[pete]

Shels$ could have played deportivo 10 times this season & wouldn't beat them. If shel$ are budgetting on a CL group stage or even 3rd qualifying round next season they are taking a huge gamble as ainlt gonna be much easier opposition than Hadjuk or Deportivo.

Possibly only Crowe would get in shel$ first team next season so they have really only improved their bench.

Can't wait til shel$ go broke.

[Macy]

It was, but seeming as it broke off it can rightly be seen as what it is, Central European. The Western half of Europe begins in Dalmatia in Croatia. Slovenia is not Eastern or Balkan. Don't mean to be pedantic but I have big ties to the country so I know. It's kind of like calling us the British Isles only worse because it's totally wrong. Politically and culturally they are Central, it spent most of its history as part of Austria. It was abd renaims the richest most advanced part of the former Yugoslavia. Not much different to here in a lot of standards.

Was in Slovenia in the summer, and from talking to the locals Slovenia was never that closed an economy. Certainly I wouldn't describe it as East European....

Off topic - I'd recommend it to anyone, particularly the north - Bled, Kranskji Gora (Spelling?), Bohinj etc. Was less impressed with the South - better weather, but the people weren't as friendly and it was full of loud Italians

[pineapple stu]

Hmmm...better start digging myself out of this hole!

I know Slovenia is more advanced politically (very clumsy political English, but anyways...) and that it is different to the other countries there. I meant Eastern purely on a geographical basis, taking the old West Germany/Austria/Italy as the dividing line between East and Central.

Lay this one to bed now?

[Macy]

Hmmm...better start digging myself out of this hole!

I know Slovenia is more advanced politically (very clumsy political English, but anyways...) and that it is different to the other countries there. I meant Eastern purely on a geographical basis, taking the old West Germany/Austria/Italy as the dividing line between East and Central.

Lay this one to bed now?

Not when Italy is still occupying part of Slovenia (not that they seem that arsed tbh).

[Poor Student]

Hmmm...better start digging myself out of this hole!

I know Slovenia is more advanced politically (very clumsy political English, but anyways...) and that it is different to the other countries there. I meant Eastern purely on a geographical basis, taking the old West Germany/Austria/Italy as the dividing line between East and Central.

Lay this one to bed now?

Stu take a look at a map the whole country is West of Vienna No worries Stu, I know what you're saying but things have changed and the country would really like for people to stop thinking that way.

'Not when Italy is still occupying part of Slovenia'

If you're referring to Trieste that's long gone thanks to it being offered to Italy to change sides in the war as a sweetner. The Slovenian population in NE Italy is in decline. I think they're more worried about the Croats trying to muscle them inwards in border disputes.

On the real topic at hand, what makes Shels think they won't fall the way of Bohs? The triple signing is almost like a symbolic taking of their place. Shels have no margain for error, I'm not sure what contigency plans they have no to end up like Bohs other than buy the best and keep winning. Cork are far more equipped to deal with a dry year or two and are being more modest in expenditure. It'll be intriguing to see how Shels look in 5 years.

[Slash/ED]

Shels$ could have played deportivo 10 times this season & wouldn't beat them. If shel$ are budgetting on a CL group stage or even 3rd qualifying round next season they are taking a huge gamble as ainlt gonna be much easier opposition than Hadjuk or Deportivo.

Possibly only Crowe would get in shel$ first team next season so they have really only improved their bench.

Can't wait til shel$ go broke.

You're living in dreamland if you think we're stupid enough to bank on getting into the group stages or even the third round again ffs.

[Poor Student]

You're living in dreamland if you think we're stupid enough to bank on getting into the group stages or even the third round again ffs.

If you ask me I'd like to think they're not banking too heavily on reaching the second stage either.