shocking racial taunts at spain v england

[anto eile]

the muppets that boo rangers players are a bunch of barstool celtic "fans",who spend more time and money "supporting" scottish football,and probably never been to an EL ground,thats the only reason i dont support the booing of rangers players when theyr playing for their country.i dont follow the national team anyway but wanted to make that point..if anything ALL opposition players should be booed regardless of their club.
at the end of the day the fai shouldnt be discouraging fans from abusing any opposition players.

[Superhoops]

..if anything ALL opposition players should be booed.....

Just what supporting your team is all about!

[lopez]

Not true- I am neither ignorant of nor trying to ignore racist abuse, in NI nor anywhere else. And irrelevant surely, because serious crime in one place doesn't mean you shouldn't address less serious in another. I'm suggesting that the Spanish FA receive an appropriate punishment, ie a game behind closed doors. That their media is now reacting to the incident- and that Blatter said on the BBC today that England would have been justified in walking off- suggests that they may well accept this.

So you agree that NI deserves at least a one match ban for booing Neil Lennon then?

Since no-one's suggesting otherwise, what's your point? Other than routine Brit-bashing, obviously?.

Oh dear! Boo, hoo, f*cking hoo: Can't say anything about the Scum, the FA, the sh*te rag nwespapers with their sanctimonious fake liberalism on one page with xenophobia on the next, without of course it being 'Brit-bashing'. Classic example on Friday re Richard Littlesh*t. Waffle, waffle, Europe's full of people voting for racist parties: Britain (meaning England) isn't. What a wonderful country. Then the next line. Blah, blah, blah. This utopia is being ruined by the guardianistas and the CRE. It was people like the CRE that forced in the Race Relations Act, not tw*ts like the Scum. BTW, what is this Neo-nazi party that made great strides in this year's Spanish elections?

Then we have Michael Boyd of the IFA pronouncing before any investigation takes place, that Spain should play a game behind closed doors. LOL! As Littlesh*t would say, you couldn't make it up.

You want Brit-bashing? Here's some for you. As I said before I don't need lectures from anyone about racism. I stood up alone amongst white kids against racism towards Asians in my school and as such I have had absolutely no contact with my former school 'friends' since I left school despite still living in the same town. I'm not talking monkey chants or the usual 'thick Mick' insults that I endured. I'm talking vicious assaults involving, as the worst I remember, broken teeth followed by threats no to say anything. That was the wonderful 'British' working class that I grew up with.

As for who's suggesting that the monkey noises are worse than racial violence, you want me to answer that? Every British newspaper I've seen today has had reams of comment on Madrid and none on the Prison Service putting Zahid Mubarek with Robert Stewart to be killed. From the editorial to the 'why oh why oh why' pomposity of columnists his name gets not a single mention but Spain is now up there with Mississippi as a racist heaven. The Sunday Mirror mentions the Antonio Salas book - with the photos of Raul and Figo - as if it's their own investigation. The Ultras Sur have fascist and racist tendencies. My God! You don't say! The book's been around for two years. It's a bestseller and it gets mentioned now!

It's all because this happened to a bunch of highly paid British athletes cum personalities that this is getting mentioned here or in the papers and a convenient excuse to cover up the Scum's performance - 'the monkey noises affected the team (copyright countless sanctimonious reporters)' - and a sneaky way of increasing London's Olympic bid. Meanwhile, racial violence in Belfast gets half a page in the 'bleeding heart liberal' Guardian a few weeks back and that's, er, it!

[liam88]

Ya leave a thread for 3 days..................and there's 5 pages of full on political banter to read through..............God love foot.ie !

Looking foward to the 16th even more now!

Let's kick racism out of football lads!

[Duncan Gardner]

So you agree that NI deserves at least a one match ban for booing Neil Lennon then?

Neil who? Let's move forward. If there's crude racism or sectarianism in the future as in the past, or as in Madrid, then yes.

Oh dear! Boo, hoo, f*cking hoo: Can't say anything about the Scum, the FA, the sh*te rag nwespapers with their sanctimonious fake liberalism on one page with xenophobia on the next, without of course it being 'Brit-bashing'

It's largely irrelevant (the hypocrisy of the Brit media is a separate issue to the crude racism of many Spanish fans), exaggerated (no-one is suggesting the English are fearful or hating of Spaniards) and repetitive (see threads passim). So yes, routine Brit-bashing. For all that I agree with much of what you say about institutionalised racism and the rest.

Then we have Michael Boyd of the IFA pronouncing before any investigation takes place, that Spain should play a game behind closed doors. LOL! As Littlesh*t would say, you couldn't make it up

I'm sure Boyd would want there to be an investigation. If so I agree with him. But there's a pretty obvious prima facie case to answer, eh? Do you think his job at the IFA disqualifies comment- why?

As I said before I don't need lectures from anyone about racism

No-one is lecturing you?

As for who's suggesting that the monkey noises are worse than racial violence, you want me to answer that? Every British newspaper I've seen today has had reams of comment on Madrid and none on the Prison Service putting Zahid Mubarek with Robert Stewart to be killed

The context made clear I was talking about foot.ie readers. But in any case none of the British papers are suggesting that- exaggeration again. I'd think about withdrawing that libellous accusation about the prison service btw...

It's all because this happened to a bunch of highly paid British athletes cum personalities that this is getting mentioned here or in the papers and a convenient excuse to cover up the Scum's performance

No, it's because Irish football fans saw it on TV and felt moved to comment! Barely any of them, and certainly not me, have any vested interest in defending the England team (not that any of their own mainstream media did, of course). Same goes for their Olympic bid. I'm agin it by the way, sports money should go on public pitches in the Highlands, as the Bleeding Heart's letters page said on Saturday.

Meanwhile, racial violence in Belfast gets half a page in the 'bleeding heart liberal' Guardian a few weeks back and that's, er, it!

Wise up. This has had widespread coverage in the Belfast, London and Dublin media.

[MikeNI]

Agreed! Time to close down Windsor Park then for a game then. How's about backdating it to four. The vile anti-Catholic sh*te dished out in 1988 and 1994 when I was there, the game in 1993 that I personally missed and one for Neil Lennon's abuse.

Any chance of concentrating on the present rather than living in and dregding up the past?

[lopez]

Neil who? Let's move forward. If there's crude racism or sectarianism in the future as in the past, or as in Madrid, then yes.

I'm sure you would like to move on. Well I'm not too keen on giving you the clean slate and not Spain, especially as 'racism' for want of another word has been part and parcel of international matches for decades in Belfast while this is the first time that it has happened at a Spain game. How much did the IFA get fined over Lennon? And of course if this happened to England - as both Littlesh*t and Phil Neville moaned about - they'd have to play a game behind closed doors. But it did at the Turkey game. And all they got was a fine. Anyway, this might all blow up in the faces of the Tan media and the EFA, with the events at Blackburn, when the chickens come home to roost.

It's largely irrelevant (the hypocrisy of the Brit media is a separate issue to the crude racism of many Spanish fans), exaggerated (no-one is suggesting the English are fearful or hating of Spaniards) and repetitive (see threads passim). So yes, routine Brit-bashing. For all that I agree with much of what you say about institutionalised racism and the rest.

No it's neither of the three (perhaps the third then). You accused me of Brit-bashing, a general all-encompassing accusation that I was slagging off the whole British population when talking about a small part of it.

I'm sure Boyd would want there to be an investigation. If so I agree with him. But there's a pretty obvious prima facie case to answer, eh? Do you think his job at the IFA disqualifies comment- why?

Boyd has already made up his own mind and this is clearly down to his solidarity with a fellow 'British' association.

No-one is lecturing you?

Perhaps that's not the intention but with the fear of repeating myself again, name calling in the tribailistic setting of football is the least of its problems. No one is suggesting that noone should call you, me or Davros fat, or people like Richard Dunne. But what about the, admitedly small, number of kids that commit suicide over this through school bullying becuase of their obesity.

The context made clear I was talking about foot.ie readers. But in any case none of the British papers are suggesting that- exaggeration again. I'd think about withdrawing that libellous accusation about the prison service btw...

Foot.ie readers - and I salute this - are far more proactive on issues of race and sectarianism that you find in Irish society in general. But I can't help suspecting that with British papers relegate racism to non-celebrities to the back columns not front and back pages and half a dozen in between, that this has not influenced people's disgust when there are clearly other racial problems in Britain, Ireland and Europe. As for libelling the Prison service, don't make me laugh.

No, it's because Irish football fans saw it on TV and felt moved to comment! Barely any of them, and certainly not me, have any vested interest in defending the England team (not that any of their own mainstream media did, of course). Same goes for their Olympic bid. I'm agin it by the way, sports money should go on public pitches in the Highlands, as the Bleeding Heart's letters page said on Saturday.

Irish fans might not have any vested interest in the Scum but again, the side gets a hell of a lot of coverage in Irish papers for what is a foreign team. Therefore more 'why oh why oh why' commentary than on, for example, black players in Poland being asked, when injured, by medical staff if they want a stretcher or a banana. As for Olympics, the tabloid media has wasted no time in trying to get the Madrid bid - which I was told by my son was ahead of London - flung out. No doubt if Al Qaeda timed a bombing campaign in London just before the winner's announcement that the same media would be saying that this should have no bearing on the final decision.

Wise up. This has had widespread coverage in the Belfast, London and Dublin media.

Belfast, Dublin. yes. Decent British newspapers like the Guardian and the Independent who take a consistent line on racism - and therefore I am not criticising - of all forms every day of the week. Yes. As for the papers who have been the most sanctimonious over Wednesday? The Daily Mail? I doubt it. The Mirror, the paper whose own xenophobia towards Spain (and Germany) during Euro 96 disbars it from any credible condemnation on the racism in Spain? I doubt it. The Scum? Ooh nurse, my sides!!!

[lopez]

Any chance of concentrating on the present rather than living in and dregding up the past?

Two years ago isn't ancient history even if you wish it was. For what it's worth, I didn't nor don't want to see WP shut for what happened to Lennon, merely if Spain are to be sanctioned, in the interests of fairness, so should these teams and that Boyd should be a bit more understanding and less sanctimonious. After all, there were adverts and announcements against racism before kick-off.

It's clear that at WP - as in Spain - this was a minority. Also society's problems can't be excluded from football and that in their defence, historically the IFA (in the fifties) ignored the advice of the Stormont government to 'employ' only Protestants. Far worse to me was the refusal of Linfield to employ RCs but in footballing terms, one club's discrimination is another's opportunity (eg: Jock Stein on signing the Protestant for Celtic in the sixties knowing Rangers wouldn't sign the RC).

However sectarian abuse continued for years - not one game - at WP without sanction and the Football For All initiative came not from abuse of players of opposing sides but of one of its own, a move the IFA had no choice in enacting otherwise it faced RC players seeking either to play for the Republic or not at all.

[MikeNI]

Two years ago isn't ancient history even if you wish it was. .

It was more than 2 years ago. And it was in many ways one of the last manifestations of a dying era.

For what it's worth, I didn't nor don't want to see WP shut for what happened to Lennon, merely if Spain are to be sanctioned, in the interests of fairness, so should these teams

There you go again, confusing the past and the present again.

However sectarian abuse continued for years - not one game - at WP without sanction.

Yes, the IFA were crap and inert until Michael Boyd and his team came along. Thankfully in the past few years TIMES HAVE CHANGED.

and the Football For All initiative came not from abuse of players of opposing sides but of one of its own,a move the IFA had no choice in enacting otherwise it faced RC players seeking either to play for the Republic or not at all.

That is complete and utter garbage. Football for All started at least a couple of years before Lennon signed for Celtic. And it was a result of massive pressure from NI supporters groups on the IFA to help them out in their (now successul) efforts to end sectarian singing.

Nothing like twisting events to suit what you'd like to believe, is there...

[MikeNI]

That's a bit rich coming from a 'puppet state',whose 'existence' & ethos revolves around what'happened in the past' ........or are you going to re-educate the locals about Billy the Dutch fag.,some clowns from the H*n aristocracy,The River Boyne & their archaic marching season?!

Absolutely brilliant. You try to talk about the issues confronting football in NI and further afield, and instead people decide to bring up King Billy, the Battle of the Boyne and the Orange Order

[Éanna]

Absolutely brilliant. You try to talk about the issues confronting football in NI and further afield, and instead people decide to bring up King Billy, the Battle of the Boyne and the Orange Order

so, as you can see, its pretty much pointless trying to argue with people who kep changing the issue.

[MikeNI]

You're the person who mentioned the'past' ......can you no see the irony...... presumably you're not even familiar with the osc's local 'cultural'traditions,which are exclusively based on triumphalism & the past!Get rid of these & recognise the planters were uninvited guests..... then we might take your argument seriously

For the love of God - I mentioned that events took place at a football ground in the past. I didn't realise this made it open season for a rant about 'trimphalism', 'cultural traditions', King Billy or the Orange Order...

[Duncan Gardner]

I'm sure you would like to move on. Well I'm not too keen on giving you the clean slate

I/we (NI fans) have moved on. We don't ask for past abuses to be ignored- and I've said above I expect them to recur, sadly. If you genuinely want punishments to be applied retrospectively, this just sounds embittered.

No it's neither of the three (perhaps the third then). You accused me of Brit-bashing, a general all-encompassing accusation that I was slagging off the whole British population when talking about a small part of it...anyway, this might all blow up in the faces of the Tan media and the EFA, with the events at Blackburn, when the chickens come home to roost

I think the English* media are aware of been judged by the standards they set the Spanish.

* if you don't want the accusation of 'Brit-bashing', drop the constant references to 'Tans' and 'Scum'. Deal?

Boyd has already made up his own mind and this is clearly down to his solidarity with a fellow 'British' association

It's not clear at all. Are you saying that because I'm agreeing with him, I'm solid with the Brits? Or that anyone who disagrees with you is?

Perhaps that's not the intention

Neither intention nor effect. No-one accused you, so why not drop it?

As for libelling the Prison service, don't make me laugh

You're easily amused. You implied that the prison service deliberately treated Mubarek in a way that exposed him to violent assault. That's libellous.

Irish fans might not have any vested interest in the Scum but again, the side gets a hell of a lot of coverage in Irish papers for what is a foreign team

Hmm. On the one hand you're crediting foot.ie readers for their sensitivity to racism, then suggesting that they're unduly influenced by coverage of English football in the Irish media. Why can't you just accept that Irish fans are angry with explicit racism and want to criticise it? No hidden agenda applies.

As for Olympics, the tabloid media has wasted no time in trying to get the Madrid bid - which I was told by my son was ahead of London - flung out. No doubt if Al Qaeda timed a bombing campaign in London just before the winner's announcement that the same media would be saying that this should have no bearing on the final decision

Tabloid media deal in instant vox-pop type opinion. But then I'm not defending the Sun or Mirror. Why does Juanito think the Spanish are ahead of London, by the way? This isn't a dig, but he is only 11. I agree with him anyway. Madrid's transport is better, the Latino block vote will kick in, and if it's in high summer plucky Paula will retire and we won't have to listen to the tabs bleating about her latest failure.

Belfast, Dublin. yes. Decent British newspapers like the Guardian and the Independent who take a consistent line on racism - and therefore I am not criticising - of all forms every day of the week

Ah, right. So you accept that the Brit media did cover the story. The London tabs have given plenty of coverage to racism-related violence in northern English towns in the last couple of years. They're ****, yes, but that doesn't mean they always hide from the story.

To Davros: Lopez's constant references I've explained above. Yours to the "planters" needing to "feck off or intergrate" [sic], are just incoherent

[MikeNI]

And I'm putting them in the context in which they should be observed;If you want to take an ostrich-like stance,fine by me....... but will continue to identify these vile practices,which are allegedly representative of my community,FFS!

If you want to lauch into a rant about your perception of the NI Unionist community rather than discuss the issues I was discussing, I just give up...

[shane123]

It's not too long ago that Paul McGrath underwent the same type of racist abuse in Belfast during that rotten qualifier in 93. nothing happened or was said about it then.

what happened in spain was wrong but listening to england fans on tv saying it is the worst thing they have seen in years made me sick. what qualifies as being racist, does singing about 'paddy b@@tards in 95' not come under the same category.

[Junior]

So the people complaining are wrong? I see. You are 'sick', not because of the monkey noises at a player like Ashley Cole, but because British people complained about it.

Of course it would be appropriate to point out here that Celtic fans have in the past (on one ocassion, as has been pointed out to me) thrown bananas at coloured players.

As a matter of idle curiosity, would any posters here who were more appalled at the English reaction rather than the actual abuse be Celtic fans?

You like to bring up your little celtic racist story on a fairly frequents basis connor. Its as if you are trying to score points over the celtic fans by using the walters story. This is very sad and shows little empathy towards walters and the racism he indured during this event, but rather shows your desire to portray celtic fans in a certain light.

BOTH incidents are/were appalling and should NEVER be tolerated in our society.

Yours,

Junior 'Celtic fan'.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Aye, right. What a numbskull.

What do the Ku Klux Klan , Combat 18, the people who victimised Lopez and the Loyalists terrorising Asian immigrants in Belfast have in common? They are WASPS. Hence my assertion !
You clearly took the traditional route to reach the above conclusion.

[sylvo]

So the people complaining are wrong? I see. You are 'sick', not because of the monkey noises at a player like Ashley Cole, but because British people complained about it.

Of course it would be appropriate to point out here that Celtic fans have in the past (on one ocassion, as has been pointed out to me) thrown bananas at coloured players.

As a matter of idle curiosity, would any posters here who were more appalled at the English reaction rather than the actual abuse be Celtic fans?

I was wondering when you'd go off on that subject again, a bit like when a song on a CD player get's put on repeat and just goes on and on and on.

[Duncan Gardner]

What do the Ku Klux Klan , Combat 18, the people who victimised Lopez and the Loyalists terrorising Asian immigrants in Belfast have in common? They are WASPS. Hence my assertion !
You clearly took the traditional route to reach the above conclusion

No- I called you a numbskull not because you're stupid- that's forgivable- but because you're a bigot. Next.

[sylvo]

I know Sylvo, but it's just so damned inconvenient for some of the 'apologists for the Spanish racism/Brits ask for everything anyway' posters here.

Anyway, delighted to see you taking a continued interest in my posts. How many times, on any given topic, DO you react to me anyway?

Ahhh Now Conor, this is a subject about the Spain v Tans match last week and all of a sudden you go bringing up an incident that happened in 86 which I thought we had all done to death, cue reaction.

MMM as for interest in yer post's there was over six pages about this subject yet yer good self was the first to try and point out that a certain team who's name always brings out an argument on these boards is more are less involved in the same abuse that was dished out to the black players last week.

I will go through it again for you, the positive thing that came out of that sad incident was the complete outcry from the overwhelming majority of fans and the sudden put down to the sad action's of a few. I have no problems with the British press standing up to racism, in fact I fully encourge it. But if they are to do it then do a total cover of it , rather of when it suit's them.
One paper that has been brought up on this thread with it's outcry to the abuse was the sun, a same paper that waged a campaign against any kind of funding or represantation toward's the Black community in the years after the Tottenham riot's and waged a slander campaign against many black people in local goverment here in North London, all of a sudden they are on a campaign which will soon be forgot when they go back to their normal story's of Eastern europians and muslim's.
Anyway off now to trawl through yer three and a half thousand posts and see what else i can soooooo find.