shocking racial taunts at spain v england

[Duncan Gardner]

Fair enough.....but what about the Puppets re.Lennon & more seriously,the continued bad behaviour of the T*ns,Turks,Germans & Croats(& various misc.E.Europeans) ...... there's hardly been any parallels set!

Yes, there have been worse examples and they should have been punished too. Certainly in the future.

Whereas our country has been abused,a minimum of intermittently,by the self-same norman-saxon mutants for the last 900 years or so.....

Worcestershire was abused by the Saxons? Fascinating.

[lopez]

I haven't always got a great deal of time for the FAI but I must say that in my experiences and through the experiences of my collegues I have found them generally proactive as an organisation in the fight against racism and have seen them take action against the people committing this most vile action.

This can be said about Ireland as a whole in the Celtic Tiger era. Plenty of people in NGOs saw the experience in other countries and decided to learn from their mistakes when racism inevitably raised its head. Also Irish people - from emigration or visiting emigrants - were no stranger to Black people. Its the government and its agencies that have disappointed - politicians, councillors, garda, etc. Anyone remember the petition that the white neighbours got up in 1998 over the constant harassment of a local Congolese family in Dublin by Garda? Could that have happened in a country where most people were seeing black people for the first time like Fifties Britain?

Good morning Duncan. Hope to see a take on this display from someone whose 'country' has had its own problems of prejudice even if this only manifests itself against Irish Catholics and not a country with a far higher RC population like Spain, when they and me last visited SGC Park. See my old bum chum - and yours - Marcelus is doing his bit for community relations in the O6C on ourweeminds. Funny thing is that I tend to agree with his basic view on old Karoly although its typically blinkered bullsh*t from someone whose lips are glued to a picture of Dubya's ar*e that he thinks he's the most evilest religious quack in the world.

[lopez]

Serious abuse merits a serious punishment. At least one game in a closed stadium would be appropriate, I think.

Agreed! Time to close down Windsor Park then for a game then. How's about backdating it to four. The vile anti-Catholic sh*te dished out in 1988 and 1994 when I was there, the game in 1993 that I personally missed and one for Neil Lennon's abuse.

As for the Scum, what did they get for that show against Turkey. Not even the gate receipts, despite people running on the pitch and a Turkish player being assaulted. And what was that song they were singing about rather being a Paki than a Turk! Bit o' crack was it? Still that was a long time ago. Erm...not even two years!

[Duncan Gardner]

Fnarr, Missus

I see I owe Marcellus (?) a reply on the Iraq thread, but need to go back to work. Perhaps you could knock out 250 words for me?

All punishments to be front-dated, of course...

There's the danger of being sanctimonious about the Spaniards (others have been far worse in the past), but today's Spanish media, unlike yesterday's, are reacting to the story. I think they recognise it as embarrassing at least.

Also Luis Aragones should apologise or be disciplined.

[Duncan Gardner]

Now you really are talking Pure Sh*te.........

Last time I looked,Kilmainham was in Baile Ath Cliath.......sort out yer geography,Planter bhoy

Recognise yer Worcester heritage, saucy bhoy

[WeAreRovers]

Can I vote for the Good Senor............

And me...and Sid Lowe....and most people I've spoken to about this.

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_...354745,00.html

KOH

[green goblin]

Living somewhere for 5 years,hardly qualifies me for 'heritage'.....as for the sauce,did you know they put rat's blood into the recipe?

WHOA NELLY!!
Rat's blood? Please tell me this is some urban myth. I had some 10 minutes ago. I know they put anchovies into it, is anchovy some kind of codeword for rat? Please explain yourself, Dav. I love Worcester sauce and hate rats

[green goblin]

....and relax.

[Bowsy]

Haven't changed my views from my previous posts but even for me this sanctimonious article brings the words pot, kettle, black and b*llox to mind. The words of a man who played for England during the "bad old days"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...ls/4022869.stm

[dublinred]

Don't know if anyone else noticed but England were brutal and were completly outplayed by the Spanish looney should of been sent off and suspended , Svens tactics were brutal and most of the players underperformed. Me thinks the racial thing is a smoke screen to cover up the obvious .

[Closed Account 2]

Serious abuse merits a serious punishment. At least one game in a closed stadium would be appropriate, I think.

I say more ! Simply because Roma had to play more home games behind closed doors for what to my mind was a less serious (but still ugly) incident. I think Wednesday was worse than one fan pelting a euro coin at a ref, so I think it should get a worse punishment... I'd say a 6 games behind closed doors or a 2 year ban on the Spanish National Team play in "Franco's Villa" (the Bernabeau, as its known to fans of other Spanish teams).

[lopez]

:
Is that the Royal 'we' or have you carried out a poll? Or is it that really old chestnut of 'the rest of the board agrees with me and not you'? If it's the last one, I would respectfully suggest you read through all the posts here again...

Can I vote for the Good Senor............

And me...and Sid Lowe....and most people I've spoken to about this.

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_...354745,00.html

KOH

That'll do for me, lads! I'll guess we'll pass why the need for the stupid comment about a mugging changing not your views on Irish people when we're talking about racial assaults, something now taken quite seriously here (both for white and people and non-whites). A politician defo in the making.

I say more ! Simply because Roma had to play more home games behind closed doors for what to my mind was a less serious (but still ugly) incident. I think Wednesday was worse than one fan pelting a euro coin at a ref, so I think it should get a worse punishment... I'd say a 6 games behind closed doors or a 2 year ban on the Spanish National Team play in "Franco's Villa" (the Bernabeau, as its known to fans of other Spanish teams).

Yeah and then we'll have Lansdowne Road shut down for six matches because of the 'racial' abuse of visiting Rangers players. Cop yourself on and grow up, mate. FIFA should have done this to the Scum two years ago after the Turkey game. It's not that this was an isolated incident - which it most certainly is the case with Spain - their record spreads 25 years. Tell me how many match bans did they serve for smashing up Lansdowne Road. F*ck all! And they continued to host the following year's European Championships. B*llocks to you and to them!

Reading between the lines of The Scum's (the newspaper this time) call for a ten match ban - I take it you got your cue from this ar*e wipe's 'Irish' sister cfdh - this sounds like knocking out one of the opposition for potential World Cup glory (even if there's no chance of Spain making it the final, there's always a chance they'll f*ck up the tans process along the way). And of course one should never let the suffering of others stop you taking any opportunity you can. Calls for Madrid to waive its bid for the 2012 games are simply laughable. I was always supportive of an Olympic games coming so near to my home. Now, I hope it goes to Paris.

Want to get all bleary eyed about racism! Check out the case of Zahid Mubarak's murder in the care of Brenda's prison service.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Ok let's establish one thing.... racism perpetrated by any grouping on any other grouping is wrong and fundamentally evil.

Let us examine the major footballing powers that have this problem
1/ Spain.... a defunct empire which had a Fascist government for almost 40 years.

2/ Italy... another defunct empire

3/ Germany... a defunct empire

4/ England... a defunct empire

5/ Holland.... a defunct empire

6/ Belgium... a defunct empire with a quasi fascist party gaining votes in regional government

Conclusion... imperialism is inherently racist. If the powers that be in those countries were not racist they would not believe they had a divine right to walk on other people pillage their land of natural resources and or enslave their populations.

Now the next grouping of countries where racist abuse has been heaped on players are former colonised territories

1/Poland 2/ Slovakia, 3/ Croatia 4/ Serbia 5/ Romania 6/ Bulgaria

These were all dominated by either Germany, Russia,Turkey or Austria-Hungary during the past 3 centuries and have taken on the pollution of racism from their former imperial masters.

One of the most ridiculous aspects of this is the fact that Poland has an active neo-nazi movement... the sheer illogicallity of this beggars belief.

The Poles were next on the list of the Nazis to be removed in a final solution type scenario...so Polish neo-Nazis are kind of like the entire turkey population of County Monaghan covering themselves in tinsel and looking forward to December 25.

They are particularly nasty to the gypsies.
That is partly the prejudice of settled people to non-settled people, but mostly racism.

Ireland is racist because we are similar to the group of countries including Poland , i.e. being a former colonised territory. We also cross bred over time with Anglo Saxons and as we all know the WASP is the most racist of all ethnic groupings... as a cousin of mine once said to a BNP sympathiser in Cambridge.... " Britain would be a lovely place if the Saxons fecked off back to Germany where they came from !"

The so-called fans who make racist comments to our own players such as Clinton Morrison, do not frequent EL grounds very often and are therefore Premiership wanna be fans...a bit like the following anecdote.
In the early 1990's when Vinny Arkins played for Shelbourne , they wore an all-red strip in a friendly at Tolka Park against ManUre.. one of the ManUre fans a Dubliner called... Arkins... " A scouse ****".... Vinny comes from Donaghmede for God's sake... where did this plonker get that from?
He had overheard it on TV and was a Premiership wannabe. I think the racist comments from the Ole Ole fraternity who never come to el games are of that ilk. One final point

The worst example of racism I ever experienced first hand was from the Shed at Turner's Cross. When Jason Sherlock was playing for UCD. The abuse he received there was vitriolic in the extreme.
The local knuckle dragging branch of the KKK came out in force for that fixture!

[Closed Account 2]

Yeah and then we'll have Lansdowne Road shut down for six matches because of the 'racial' abuse of visiting Rangers players. Cop yourself on and grow up, mate. FIFA should have done this to the Scum two years ago after the Turkey game. It's not that this was an isolated incident - which it most certainly is the case with Spain - their record spreads 25 years. Tell me how many match bans did they serve for smashing up Lansdowne Road. F*ck all! And they continued to host the following year's European Championships. B*llocks to you and to them!

Some points:-

This is getting into a separate argument but I am against the booing of Rangers players at LR. What have Shota Arvaladze, or a Danish man who looks like Peter Lovenkrands, for example, done to be singled out for booing ? Some of the people who go to Ibrox are particularly unpleasant, doing pretty vile acts regarding Neil Lennon etc but that doesn’t make it ok for us to stoop to even an iota of that level. We should rise above it and show that we have a better attitude. FIFA have given us a warning, and if it continues and we may well get a big fine or worse and there will go our image of being the best supporters in Europe.

I think the England should have got a travel ban or something equivalent after 1995. It was a disgrace, as were the incidents at Charleroi etc. Certainly if there is any trouble caused by English hooligans in Germany next year, I will fully support the idea of the team being kicked out.

I think the incidents on Wednesday were very bad. I have no doubts that Spain is a great place and the vast majority of Spanish people are very nice, and I'm sure its not a particularly racist country. However, even if the incidents of Wednesday are one off (which I accept they probably were), I think it will send out the wrong signals if FIFA/UEFA don’t act in some way. Turning a blind eye would make it seem acceptable. I have no doubts that there are major problems regarding racism in England, but I don’t see how that makes the treatment of Wright Phillips, Defoe etc any less appalling. I would have found such an incident just as bad had it been perpetrated on Carew of Norway, Miguel of Portugal, or Odisilable of Poland to give you three examples. It might well be hypocritical for the English FA to complain about failure to control fans, but that cant excuse what went on on Wednesday – it was plain wrong.

I do not read the Sun, and no longer live in Ireland so access to its Irish Sister is tragically fairly restricted for me. I have only ever regularly read a tabloid newspaper once, that was the German newspaper "Bild-Zeitung" (a cráp read btw) which I read as part of a coursework investigation for a month.

I took my cue (suggestion of 6 games behind closed doors) from the precedent set by UEFA for the Champions League game between Roma and Dynamo Kyiv. During the game a coin thrown from the Roma crowd struck Anders Frisk (the referee). As a result Roma had/have to play their subsequent 3 games in an empty stadium. My view was that the monkey sounds etc were more serious than the coin throwing (for a start they lasted longer and more people took part) and so the punishment should be greater than what Roma got, at least that’s what I think.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Some points:-

This is getting into a separate argument but I am against the booing of Rangers players at LR. What have Shota Arvaladze, or a Danish man who looks like Peter Lovenkrands, for example, done to be singled out for booing ? Some of the people who go to Ibrox are particularly unpleasant, doing pretty vile acts regarding Neil Lennon etc but that doesn’t make it ok for us to stoop to even an iota of that level. We should rise above it and show that we have a better attitude. FIFA have given us a warning, and if it continues and we may well get a big fine or worse and there will go our image of being the best supporters in Europe.

Your points about the booing of Rangers players here are well made. The perpetrators see it as scoring points probably against the neaderthal Orange knuckle draggers who sings songs about being buried deep in fenian blood.
That is only sinking to the same level as the WASP neanderthals concerned.

The players concerned (i.e. Lovenkrands and Arvaladze)are not responsible for any of that do not even understand that aspect of the support. They are mercenary professional sports people looking for a few bob to feed their family and in some cases extended families back home. The captain of Rangers Stefan Klos used to play for the most RC Club outside Bavaria in Germany namely Borussia Dortmund. There are probably more non Catholics playing for Celtic these days than are playing for Rangers. The old sectarian lines on the pitch are blurred.. off the field and in the grounds among the spectators they unfortunately remain the same.

If anything Glasgow now appears more sectarian than some parts of Northern Ireland ( apart from Portadown ) .

Sectarianism is evil especially when it is institutionalized . Because that sort of thing leads eventually to the deaths of thousands

We should not allow people in LR to drag this country and the good name of our supporters down to the level of the monkey chanters of Sunderland or Madrid .

[lopez]

cfdh_edmundo: May I firstly apologise for saying b*llocks to you yesterday. I regretted it about ten minutes after I went out following the post. I was totally out of order for that.

However I disagree that a physical attack on a referee or player is worst than a verbal attack, although the law in Britain does now make any racist verbal assault far worse than one without it. My point, which College states in another sort of way, is that racism in another country gets blown out of all proportion when within Britain there are people who either can't walk down the street for fear of some form of assault or that their house being burnt down. Duncan forgets that NI has some of the worst racism in our two islands - far, far worse than what any black player suffered on the pitch on Wednesday.

Racism to me is not just verbal abuse at football games. It would be a far better world if this was the only place racism existed. Racism is where people are systematically attacked or discriminated in all walks of life just for their colour or ethnicity. Its the same with obese people or Homosexuals, but racism towards people of some African ancestry is by far the worst. 'Paki' is an awfull name but there is no connection with either the unlawful kidnappping, rape and mutulation associated with slavery nor Nineteenth century Social Darwinism.

In a football sense this is manifested not by opposing supporters but by the Black players' own fans. The Scum made this a particular art with John Barnes the most notable victim, not just in South America by Terry Last and co. but later at games where his colour was seen by many as the excuse for a poor performance. This practice was only stopped by draconian (the curtailment of freedom of speech) legislation in Britain pushed for by the CRE more than any campaign. The very CRE that is constantly sniped at by the British tabloids that went overboard in their protests about Spain. As for the game in Britain, Blacks are still underrepresented as football managers, coaches, in boardrooms (this is admittedly down to money) and the FA itself (unless you count women shared by Eriksson and Palos) despite the high number of retired Black players. More disturbing is the small number of non-Whites that go to games (the exceptions being a few clubs in Manchester, Birmingham and London). I watched Leicester against Atletico Madrid and didn't see one Asian at the game.

As I stated in my last post, a young Asian thief gets deliberately put inside a cell with a known violent racist by prison staff and ends up murdered. Unless the staff were mentally handicapped I can only think that the intention was for one of the two prisoners to kill the other. Surely that is more disgusting than someone getting paid £50K a week getting compared with apes while playing professional football. But then that doesn't sell newspapers.

[eoinh]

Well done college and Lopez on two brilliant answers.

[the 12 th man]

Agreed.....though even the worst sectarianism of the OF in Glasgow/the osc. or booing of non-white players is generally less serious than phyical assault/murder/genocide........we have to put the former in some perspective.It should be punished,but only in the context of rules also governing more serious offences....as practiced by various disprate nations.

in the broader picture (as in the problems of the world) what happened at the game was not a drop in the proverbial ocean.
but it does have to recognised for what it was (disgraceful conduct by the spanish crowd) at a sporting fixture, we are talking about the game we all love being reduced to levels we have 'nt seen in a long time.

folks,at some stage, us/we have got to shout STOP.........this is simply not acceptable behaviour. people telling off other people who say something racist in their proximity is probably being too ambitious for fear of a violent reaction.you could even start by simply not laughing along with or joining in with just to be cool when something starts beside us.

be honest with yourself,there is always the chance for us to blank these people when it starts,if enough people give them "dirty looks" etc it has a chance of dying away.

irrespective of history/traditions etc it must be eradicated from the game,its a cancer.


WE NEED A WATER SHED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

[eoinh]

WE NEED A WATER SHED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Well i think this crowd are just stirring it but see here

Is there any booing of other races at LOI matchs? Never heard any my self.

[Duncan Gardner]

Duncan forgets that NI has some of the worst racism in our two islands - far, far worse than what any black player suffered on the pitch on Wednesday

Not true- I am neither ignorant of nor trying to ignore racist abuse, in NI nor anywhere else. And irrelevant surely, because serious crime in one place doesn't mean you shouldn't address less serious in another. I'm suggesting that the Spanish FA receive an appropriate punishment, ie a game behind closed doors. That their media is now reacting to the incident- and that Blatter said on the BBC today that England would have been justified in walking off- suggests that they may well accept this.

Surely that is more disgusting than someone getting paid £50K a week getting compared with apes while playing professional football. But then that doesn't sell newspapers

Since no-one's suggesting otherwise, what's your point? Other than routine Brit-bashing, obviously?

Ireland is racist because we are similar to the group of countries including Poland , i.e. being a former colonised territory. We also cross bred over time with Anglo Saxons and as we all know the WASP is the most racist of all ethnic groupings

Aye, right. What a numbskull.