Ireland V Isreal Protest

[anto eile]

conor 74.israel doesnt deserve understanding. and dont start with nonsense the bible says they can take palestine for themselves. the bible is merely a selection of folk tales and made up nonsense.its simpy a carefully selected collection of vatican propaganda (the same goes for every other religious book-koran,torah etc) , and thats a fact proven by the way that the catholic church has only selected particular gospels for inclusion in the bible so to further their own agenda.the mary magdalene gospel isnt included in the bible because it apparently claims jésus lamped her out of it.
your "logic" is non existent. just because a book says so doesnt mena the israeli nazi* party has a right to exterminate the palestinians and rob their land
as for every country in the middle east trying to exterminate israel..ever wondered why?because israel is an agressor,which has stolen land from all its neighbouring countries,not just from the palestinians.it continually seizes every chance to expand its borders.its not a democracy,because a democratic state protects the rights of the minority,and in the zionist regimes case it doesnt do that.

*ariel sharon is a nazi in every way that hitler was,just substitute jew-hating for arab-hating.

[green goblin]

bring as many palestine flags as possible to the game. and jeer their anthem incessently

"Quick! Withdraw from the occupied territories at once! We must win the respect of Irish football fans at all costs!" Riiiiight.
The holding up of the Palestinian flag makes your point, quite adequately. Don't for a second, however, think that any shot on Israeli TV will show any of you doing it.
By jeering and booing another nations anthem you only bring all Irish people down- all of us. You, me, your parents, all of us. It's one thing to make a political point, another to show a complete lack of respect for an entire nation. Sharon's a madman leading a government of madmen on an insane course of action that defies reason and morality. No argument there. It doesn't mean it's therefore OK to insult every Israeli on the planet.

[green goblin]

[QUOTE=anto eile]...as for every country in the middle east trying to exterminate israel..ever wondered why?because israel is an agressor,which has stolen land from all its neighbouring countries,not just from the palestinians.it continually seizes every chance to expand its borders.its not a democracy,because a democratic state protects the rights of the minority,and in the zionist regimes case it doesnt do that.

QUOTE]


That's right, because no Arab nation can ever be accused of being an aggressor, stealing land from its neighbouring countries, siezing chances extend its borders, of being undemocratic, existing to protect the rights of the minority in power, can they? Especially not the Saudis, Kuwaitis, Iranians, Iraqi's...
The reasons you state are perfectly valid for accusing the state of Israel of behaving in a manner that should garner deep condemnation from the international community, but do not even come close to explaining the deep ingrained racism, fear and hatred going back thousands of years on both sides. It's far more complicated than that, sadly.
Oh yes, and your stuff about the bible is just bobbins. Also, the church wasn't Catholic when the council decided on which books were canon and which were heretical, it was just the church. That didn't come until 700 years later. Stop watching the Discovery channel. It'll rot your brain.

[sadloserkid]

Would 100% support a protest. Would never boo another country's anthem however. Sitting during it would be the way to go I think. Bring Palestinian flags if you have them. People can say all they like that an israeli football match isn't the place for this but it's already happened.

Israel and Denmark played in a friendly match a while back in Denmark and the stadium was only something like half full because the rest bought tickets and then stood outside to protest. As ours is a competitive match that's not gonna happen but if any country in the world deserves to be well and truly spat upon (in the metaphorical sense) it's Israel.

[green goblin]

Would never boo another country's anthem however...if any country in the world deserves to be well and truly spat upon (in the metaphorical sense) it's Israel.

How do you spit at someone metaphorically
Stab in the dark, but have you ever heard misunderstanding by Henry Rollins? Get it here -absolutely the last word on spitting.

[Macy]

But your reference to Israeli nazis was particularly insensitive and breathtakingly ignorant of their history and plight.

Well he's Sharon has over seen the invading of other countries, the ghettoising of a particular group of people based on their religion, carriers out random acts of violence on them for the greater good of the majority of his country. It may be extreme view, but is it really that far off the mark?

[sadloserkid]

How do you spit at someone metaphorically
Stab in the dark, but have you ever heard misunderstanding by Henry Rollins? Get it here -absolutely the last word on spitting.

Never gotten the Rollins thingy but I am straightedge if that counts for anything (though I'm considering abandoning it!)

[green goblin]

Well he's Sharon has over seen the invading of other countries, the ghettoising of a particular group of people based on their religion, carriers out random acts of violence on them for the greater good of the majority of his country. It may be extreme view, but is it really that far off the mark?

I know what you mean Macy, I really do, but it's still not on to compare him to a Nazi. Sharon's lot are evil, greedy landgrabbers with little or no thought to what happens to the people they displace, content to be bulllies knowing that no one will seriously ever take them on because of the Americans. They deserve your contempt for their cruelty, and your encouragement to seek a lasting peaceful solution that affords dignity and respect to all.
Nazi's were far, far worse. They wanted the utter extermination of a people, so there would be no trace of them even left in history books. They wanted Semitism removed as even an abstract concept, the abolition of free will and the usherign in of a new Dark Age.
We use the word 'fascist' too readily. It's a vile word. Unclean.

[Macy]

I know what you mean Macy, I really do, but it's still not on to compare him to a Nazi. Sharon's lot are evil, greedy landgrabbers with little or no thought to what happens to the people they displace, content to be bulllies knowing that no one will seriously ever take them on because of the Americans. They deserve your contempt for their cruelty, and your encouragement to seek a lasting peaceful solution that affords dignity and respect to all.
Nazi's were far, far worse. They wanted the utter extermination of a people, so there would be no trace of them even left in history books. They wanted Semitism removed as even an abstract concept, the abolition of free will and the usherign in of a new Dark Age.
We use the word 'fascist' too readily. It's a vile word. Unclean.

Don't necessarily disagree, and certainly the word facist is used too frequently. However, it's not too implausable for anto to compare sharon to a facist, and certainly more applicable than some recent accusations in this country against politicians...

[Macy]

I take your points and would say call them whatever. Evil, butchers, bigots, anything else, but the word Nazi has a particularly offensive and obvious connotation when it comes to the Jews and is simply an ignorant comparison.

I'm sure that aspect of the comparison wasn't lost on anyone who read it. However, I don't think certain Jews should be exempted from that kind of label just because of their past. If their acting like facists, call them facists (the Nazi's being the most famous example).

I also am not sure about your assertion that they 'ghettoise' a people because of their religion. I think land has a vital aspect in the whole thing, rather than some purely religious war.

Hmmm not convinced. If it wasn't religious, why are the "settling" the occupied land?

[patsh]

Does anybody know this?
If certain Israelis use the bible as "proof", or whatever appropriate word should be used, that they "own" the Palestine area, do they also believe in "creationism" and ignore evolution?

[green goblin]

Does anybody know this?
If certain Israelis use the bible as "proof", or whatever appropriate word should be used, that they "own" the Palestine area, do they also believe in "creationism" and ignore evolution?

Hmmm. I actually don't know the answer to this one. It's never crossed my mind before.
I'm guessing that your hardcore orthodox Jew is as literal as your average hardcore Christian fundamentalist on this issue. By the same token, my assumption is that your average liberal Jew will be as open minded as your average liberal Christian. And your average secular Jew doesn't give a flying one, much as your average secular gentile doesn't.
You're right to say "certain Israelis" here, though patsh.
Why do you ask?

[patsh]

You're right to say "certain Israelis" here, though patsh.
Why do you ask?

Just talking about the bible got me thinking about it. I just wondered if certain Jews think everything in the bible is absolutely true, like some Christian churches do.

[1 9 2 8]

I remember when we played Serbia (Yugoslavia) a few years back around the time of the war in Kosovo the Ireland fans booed there anthem so I see no reason why not to boo Israel’s because they have carried out just as much atrocities as the Serb’s if more

[Éanna]

But your reference to Israeli nazis was particularly insensitive and breathtakingly ignorant of their history and plight.

If they behave like Nazis, call them Nazis. Warmongers, war criminals, murderers, genocidal maniacs. What about their lebensraum policy against the palestinians, pushing further to the east, to provide more land for "gods" people? They are every bit Nazis, and its sickeningly ironic to think that Israel was set up because the world felt guilty about WW2, now they've gone and done the same thing to another group of people.

[anto eile]

[QUOTE=green goblin]

...as for every country in the middle east trying to exterminate israel..ever wondered why?because israel is an agressor,which has stolen land from all its neighbouring countries,not just from the palestinians.it continually seizes every chance to expand its borders.its not a democracy,because a democratic state protects the rights of the minority,and in the zionist regimes case it doesnt do that.

QUOTE]


That's right, because no Arab nation can ever be accused of being an aggressor, stealing land from its neighbouring countries, siezing chances extend its borders, of being undemocratic, existing to protect the rights of the minority in power, can they? Especially not the Saudis, Kuwaitis, Iranians, Iraqi's...
The reasons you state are perfectly valid for accusing the state of Israel of behaving in a manner that should garner deep condemnation from the international community, but do not even come close to explaining the deep ingrained racism, fear and hatred going back thousands of years on both sides. It's far more complicated than that, sadly.
Oh yes, and your stuff about the bible is just bobbins. Also, the church wasn't Catholic when the council decided on which books were canon and which were heretical, it was just the church. That didn't come until 700 years later. Stop watching the Discovery channel. It'll rot your brain.

arab nations being aggressive doesnt excuse israeli aggression.
the bible stuff is not "bobbins" ,whetever the fluck that is.the bible is full of sh!t,so to use it as evidence that one has a right to rob land from a people who had been there for thousands of years is stupid. so an american christian born and bred lets say in new jersey, converts to judaism to marry his fiance suddenly has the right to go to palestine and rob land from as many arabs as he like because it says so in the bible????
your point about the church/bible etc is invalid. the church originally,and now esp the catholic church still select which gospels they want to consider sacred,simply because it fits their agenda.
and i dont know what the discovery channel has to do with any of this you condascending prikc

[anto eile]

"Quick! Withdraw from the occupied territories at once! We must win the respect of Irish football fans at all costs!" Riiiiight.
The holding up of the Palestinian flag makes your point, quite adequately. Don't for a second, however, think that any shot on Israeli TV will show any of you doing it.
By jeering and booing another nations anthem you only bring all Irish people down- all of us. You, me, your parents, all of us. It's one thing to make a political point, another to show a complete lack of respect for an entire nation. Sharon's a madman leading a government of madmen on an insane course of action that defies reason and morality. No argument there. It doesn't mean it's therefore OK to insult every Israeli on the planet.

if we played south africa during apartheid it would have been right to boo the anthem.it also would have been right to boo nazi germanys anthem.so its right to boo apartheid nazi israels anthem.

as for bringing us down,get real.what id consider an insult is irish people respecting the flag and anthem of a nation that actively promotes genocide

[anto eile]

I take it you hate the Bible, you hate the Jews, you hate Israel blah blah blah. I think Green Goblin has done an excellent response - noone is condoning what has happened to Palestinians, but the problems are much deeper than the usual 'Arabs are great, Jews and Christians and Americans are terrible' stuff that's so trendy these days.

But your reference to Israeli nazis was particularly insensitive and breathtakingly ignorant of their history and plight.

no its not ignorant.youre ignorant to even attempt to rationalize israle by reffering to the holocaust.in 50 years time we could easily look back on the middle east and be talking of the holocaust of the palestinians.
i dont love or hate anyone for simply being arab,israeli or jewish or christian.remember that the palestinian christians are being oppressed/murdered as much as arab palestinians.but i WILL hate someone if they excuse/support genocide murder and oppression,and that is the state of israel
i dont hate the bible, i just think its a load of crap,just like everything else the church says (ie as its in the enws a lot: gay marriage is a sin youl go to hell if your gay.but if god created gays then he made a mistake,but god is infallible!and the pope is infallible but he said the world was round before!nonsense all of it).its a carefully selected selection of fairy tales half truths blatant lies and downright propaganda.
as for fobbing off "i hate america" as being trendy,thats bull. wonder why so many people hate america?take a look at a history book,their human rights record is appalling.supporting right wing fascist dictators/regimes all over the world , overthrowing legitimate democratically elected governments.and not just during the colld war either.they did it last year in venezuela (in fact american inteference in venezuela is a reason for the exorbitant price of oil at the moment,iraq has nothing to do with it).america is NOT a good guy,and hasnt been since 1945.its an immperialist fascist power

[1 9 2 8]

If they behave like Nazis, call them Nazis. Warmongers, war criminals, murderers, genocidal maniacs. What about their lebensraum policy against the palestinians, pushing further to the east, to provide more land for "gods" people? They are every bit Nazis, and its sickeningly ironic to think that Israel was set up because the world felt guilty about WW2, now they've gone and done the same thing to another group of people.

I couldn't put it better myself

[dancinpants]

If yer going with a pile of mates of the same opinion, take yer flag, turn your back when the anthems on and don't boo. Coz if yer on your own with yer back turned you'll look a right tw@t if the camera catches you!!!