Ireland V Isreal Protest

[REVIP]

Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is appalling - but they only get away with it because the Americans are there to support them.

The trouble with taking Palestinian flags is that the media will just assume that it's Northern sectarianism spread to here. A friend from east Belfast was telling me on Monday that the Loyalist areas have Israeli flags and the Republican ones have Palestinian flags.

The human rights record of some of the African countries is even grimmer, but no-one ever says throw them out, didn't Ireland play Nigeria in London?.

We should be consistent.

[wws]

but isnt being always inconsistent a type of consistency?

and typically irish

[liam88]

The trouble with taking Palestinian flags is that the media will just assume that it's Northern sectarianism spread to here. A friend from east Belfast was telling me on Monday that the Loyalist areas have Israeli flags and the Republican ones have Palestinian flags.

Aye there used to be a Palestinian flag above the Free Derry sign....pretty sure it's down now, also rumors of a tri at Arafats funeral

[jofyisgod]

Go for it, definitely.All i'd say is keep to the flags, no chants,etc. This is all about the Ireland team, but it is a great chance to generate some POSITIVE publicity for a severly under-represented people.

[Éanna]

Go for it, definitely.All i'd say is keep to the flags, no chants,etc. This is all about the Ireland team, but it is a great chance to generate some POSITIVE publicity for a severly under-represented people.

well said. I don't want any chanting or anything during the game. but during the israeli anthem, it will make a point, then we can get back to the game

[Docboy]

Not on,highly stupid,probly get us fined

[Éanna]

Not on,highly stupid,probly get us fined

very much on. not stupid. doubt we'd get fined.

[tiktok]

well said. I don't want any chanting or anything during the game. but during the israeli anthem, it will make a point, then we can get back to the game

While my opinions on the Palestinian issue are close to yours Eanna, if anyone arounds me starts booing and chanting over a foreign team's anthem in Landsdowne road they'll get a serious earful and a swift kick in the rear from me.

I don't think that Lansdowne is the appropriate venue for this type of protest.

[Aberdonian Stu]

If you want to protest during an anthem don't boo it, sit during it. That's what I did for the Cyprus game (normally wouldn't take sides but the Greek-Cypriots refusal to budge in recent months really annoyed me). It's an honourable way of showing your disgust without lowering yourself. Turning your back is another option. Booing is what we'd expect from hooligans, and given that you're trying to make a serious political point I'm guesing you don't wish to appear like that.

Incidentally we most definitely would get fined for booing. UEFA/FIFA have a zero tolerance policy and assume racism/xenophobia whether it's present or not.

[patsh]

The anthem should not be booed.

There are many, many people in Israel who want to live in peaceful co-existence with Palestinians, and many who actively do what they can to bring this about. By booing the anthem, you insult them too.

[green goblin]

While it's always commendable to oppose tyranny and opression, why weren't we kicking up a big aul' fuss when we played the Nigerians, who, let us be clear, are ruled by a bunch of evil, murdering b@stards? What about the Saudis, with their apalling human rights record and disregard for democratic process and unimaginable greed?
What I worry about is that Ireland is perhaps infected with very deeply ingrained anti semitism. It's a Catholic thing, in which the Jews are blamed for the death of Christ, rather than the collective sin and guilt of mankind. I have heard so many discussions on the Palestinian issue that ended up with "And don't forget they killed our Lord too".
And before any of you start accusing me of being some some Zionist pro-Bush lunatic, yes, I do have a Palestinian flag, thank you very much.
Can I also plead with everyone to go and read the excellent graphic novel "Palestine" by Joe Sacco. Can't reccomend it enough.read about it here

[Macy]

Good post. I too have wondered how much anti-Israel stuff is based on something that runs deeper than concern for the Palestinians. Pol Pot and Idi Amin got better press than the Israelis...

This is just typical bullshít, can't support the Palestinians or criticise Israel without being an anti-Semite. It's always the first line of defence.

IMO the reason why people feel so strongly about Israel is because of the decades of ignoring the international community, with the support of the US (refusal to ever back resolutions against them). Add this in with the fact they're the self styled only democracy in the mid-east, yet they are clearly abusing and oppressing the Palestinian people.

[wws]

While it's always commendable to oppose tyranny and opression, why weren't we kicking up a big aul' fuss when we played the Nigerians, who, let us be clear, are ruled by a bunch of evil, murdering b@stards? What about the Saudis, with their apalling human rights record and disregard for democratic process and unimaginable greed?
What I worry about is that Ireland is perhaps infected with very deeply ingrained anti semitism. It's a Catholic thing, in which the Jews are blamed for the death of Christ, rather than the collective sin and guilt of mankind. I have heard so many discussions on the Palestinian issue that ended up with "And don't forget they killed our Lord too".
And before any of you start accusing me of being some some Zionist pro-Bush lunatic, yes, I do have a Palestinian flag, thank you very much.
Can I also plead with everyone to go and read the excellent graphic novel "Palestine" by Joe Sacco. Can't reccomend it enough.read about it here

Green Goblin I can assure you I for one have ZERO interest in the Palestinian - Isreali conflict - on any level - what does get me angry however is this increasing Irish trait of limiting even the most basic of civil liberties. Waving a poxy flag is a personal choice and I wont have what I can and cant do (within the law) dictated to by the political agendas of a bunch of cnuts who think they can make up "moral laws" about peoples behaviour. Waving a flag in Lansdowne is a matter of personal choice for that person not something for discussion, I wont be waving one - coz im sick of Ireland home games so I wont be there - the "sit down lads" attitude of the security, the silent night atmosphere and general "non football" nature of these crowds is symptomatic of the greater malaise - wnkers telling people what is an what isnt acceptable

[green goblin]

This is just typical bullshít, can't support the Palestinians or criticise Israel without being an anti-Semite. It's always the first line of defence.
IMO the reason why people feel so strongly about Israel is because of the decades of ignoring the international community, with the support of the US (refusal to ever back resolutions against them). Add this in with the fact they're the self styled only democracy in the mid-east, yet they are clearly abusing and oppressing the Palestinian people.

I really don't think that criticising the Israeli government's apalling disregard for human rights and contempt for international law makes anyone anti-semitic, Macy. And I don't believe that ant-semitism is an different (better/worse) than being anti-Eskimo, or anti-zulu or any other ethnic group. The US policy on Israel has it's roots in the cold war, like a lot of things, and has not been up for discussion in the US for a long time. They're unlikely to shift, as Israel has gone from being the only friendly foothold in a continent of will they/won't they commies to the only friendly foothold in a continent of will they/won't they Islamic fundamentalists.
Getting back to the flag thing, I don't think that the lads at Pantsdowne Rd sending the world the message of "IRA/PLO one people one struggle" helps anyone right now.

[patsh]

This is just typical bullshít, can't support the Palestinians or criticise Israel without being an anti-Semite. It's always the first line of defence.

I have to agree with this. If you criticise American Foreign policy, you are Anti-American, Israeli policy towards Palestine, you are anti-Semite and have forgotten the Holocaust.
Nigeria is a good example. There have been many protests against deporting women, in particular, back to Nigeria, given the oppresive regimes, both governmental and religious, that will probably result in the woman's death. Yet the very people who would be the first to shout anti-Semite, will jeer at these protestors and call them "the usual suspects" or "do gooders" (because its a terrible crime in the eyes of the hard men to do some good).
Many people do protest about Tibet for instance, but are labelled "cranks" by the very same people who believe that anybody who doesn't agree with their narrow world view is "Anti-American" "Anti-Semite" "pinko" or some other nonsense.

[patsh]

Don't you think for one minute that the Jews have been subjected to genocides, pogroms and hatred since the beginning of time, that they simply wanted to have a home in a place that even the Christian Bible says is their home, and are surrounded by countries that would gladly wipe them out (and have tried in the past, but just been very crap at it) and maybe, just maybe, they deserve a bit more understanding then they get for doing what anyone would do and defending their little patch of land?

SO because they have suffered so much, it's wrong to object when they visit suffering on others?

If there was a religion that maintained that Cork/Kerry/Dublin or wherever you live, was their spiritual home, would you happily be forced to give up the home and land your family had worked and lived on for generations, go into exile/a refugee camp without a cents worth of compensation, and then accept being treated like some sort of lower life form by those who had taken your home, and be satisfied with the justification that a Book said they had the right to do this?

[Macy]

So you dismiss anti-Semitism as having any part to play in opinions on Jews? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Just that I've seen a heck of a lot more posts on here about Israel than any other flashpoint, I can't think of one word of criticism of the Russians in Chechnya pre-the terrorist attack on the school. Or, more amazingly, how about the genocide by Muslims in Sudan? Not one word of criticism.

Don't you think for one minute that the Jews have been subjected to genocides, pogroms and hatred since the beginning of time, that they simply wanted to have a home in a place that even the Christian Bible says is their home, and are surrounded by countries that would gladly wipe them out (and have tried in the past, but just been very crap at it) and maybe, just maybe, they deserve a bit more understanding then they get for doing what anyone would do and defending their little patch of land?

The threads on here are dictated by whats in the news. Thats the reason why it's a hotter topic. Or maybe like I said before, they accept the title of being a democracy without actually putting it into practice for all the people under their Governance.

[patsh]

There has been more than one case in this country, and in others, involving the possible stoning of women.
The point I was making was that one post mentioned Nigeria, and how nobody protests against this country, but the fact is that people do protest, but are dismissed.

[Éanna]

While my opinions on the Palestinian issue are close to yours Eanna, if anyone arounds me starts booing and chanting over a foreign team's anthem in Landsdowne road they'll get a serious earful and a swift kick in the rear from me.

no, I don't agree with booing an anthem. thats disrespectful and childish. i was suggesting holding up a banner, or turning our backs when the anthem is being played.

[anto eile]

bring as many palestine flags as possible to the game. and jeer their anthem incessently