Germany V Republic of Ireland - Tuesday, 14th October 2014 - Euro 2016 Qualifier

[Fixer82]

What a finish to that game. I leapt 10 feet off the couch.

Did anyone notice McGeady's cheeky pass to Gibson in build up to Hoolahan's chance? Top class!

Great pass from Hendrick for the goal.

Read a few places that RMK went nuts when we scored. Any videos or photos of that floating about?

[DannyInvincible]

This is probably NSFW, so I won't post the photo, but there were some absolutely ludicrous scarves being sold outside the ground in Gelsenkirchen, ha!

He's not the Wessiah, but he's not a naughty boy either.

Excellent!

When we finally took the game to Germany, because we had to, we constantly caused them difficulties, so why didn't we do that from the start?

If we'd really gone at them, we might indeed have exposed and been able to exploit further weaknesses. They were missing quite a few game-changing names. Could we have taken better advantage of that? Could we have won the game, like Poland did, if we'd gone on the front foot from the outset? It's hard to say really. I mean, they'd have had more space to play closer to our goal, so maybe we'd have been simply leaving ourselves open and vulnerable to more incisive penetration. Kroos and Durm showed what they could do when given the slightest bit of space around the edge of our box. Their media thinks they're a team in crisis. I'd like to think not. I'd rather think it was a brave performance and point won, rather than a cowardly two dropped, against a team who had a few injuries, of which we took advantage, but who will return to their best by going on to crush our main competition (Scotland and Poland) in the remaining games. Before bottling it again against us in Dublin, of course!

Having trumped Scotland's result in Germany by a point, the Scots are already playing catch-up in the group. And they still have to go to Georgia too. That one has "banana-skin" written all over it. Let's hope such pressure shows in Celtic Park. I'd been saying before the game that I was hoping we'd give it a proper go like Scotland did. We didn't, but I'm ecstatic. I'd rather come home with a last-gasp point having played anti-football for 75 minutes than have played plucky and direct counter-attacking football and ended up losing 2-1. The result certainly justified the means.

[tricky_colour]

So far so good, Germany had a fair bit of possession but struggle to create clear cut chance, most of their shots were from distnce, outside the area,
anyone have any stats on possession shots on target etc..

Some basic stats here, were were significantly more awesome and massively less rubbish than Germany http://www.footytube.com/video/germa...c-oct14-306459
Indeed had 52 ratings as awesome whilst Germany managed only 2 awesome ratings.
Also Germany has 27 rubbish rating v just 1 for us.


More stats here

http://int.soccerway.com/matches/201...?ICID=PL_MS_18

9	Corners				1
7	Shots on target				1
7	Shots wide				0
11	Fouls				10
2	Offsides				4

40
Republic
of
Ireland


60
Germany




Possession

Here are the Poland Germany stats for comparisonhttp://int.soccerway.com/matches/2014/10/11/europe/european-championship-qualification/poland/germany/1653189/?ICID=PL_MS_10

0	Corners				6
2	Shots on target				12
2	Shots wide				9
18	Fouls				12
3	Offsides				2

62
Germany


38
Poland






Possession




We did better on possession than Poland, did we really only have one shot on target? I guess so, just the goal, Hoolahans shot was blocked.
So we did OK more possession and we restricted Germany in shots.

[Charlie Darwin]

It could also be argued that Coleman is not a specialist right back.

I don't think anybody could argue that with a straight face. He's an out and out right back/wing back.

Having watched the game again, I'm less dispirited than I was watching it on TV last night. We set out with a game plan to frustrate them in our half - which is superficially Trap-like - but the players had a lot more freedom to make decisions and it showed as we looked more comfortable than we did under the previous manager. I think we struggled after Whelan went off - I suspect Kroos wouldn't have had 10 yards to pick his spot otherwise - but as the game drew to a close we gained a lot of composure and were able to exploit their lack of confidence.

The contribution of Kingdom and Stutts as to what was going on off-camera is invaluable, as you do miss things when you're not there (obviously there are some things you see on TV you don't see live as well). It's interesting when commentators pick their man of the match and it doesn't really tally with what you've seen on TV, and I think that might be the case with McClean last night - he was sloppy on the ball but off the ball he did some great work, and I suspect there was a lot more he did that Whelan and Hamilton would have seen from their vantage point but mightn't have been picked up by the cameras.

Our goal was brilliant. I was pleading with Wes not to take the throw-in before our goal after his previous woeful effort, but the German ballboy did us a favour and allowed him to restart the game quickly, and though his cross was overhit (although he was aiming for Hendrick and Gibson (I think) at the back, it was a wonderful piece of technical brilliance and concentration from Hendrick to ease it back into the centre and O'Shea's finish was sublime.

All in all, it wasn't a complete performance and there were some tactical errors (playing a long ball game with Keane and McGeady up front is a mistake that can't be repeated) but ultimately O'Neill read the game correctly and we got the point we went for, and it wasn't down to luck. If anything, our goal was much better worked than anything they came up with bar Goetze's chance that Forde brilliantly saved. Still, Scotland will be a different game and winning away from home against a direct rival will be an entirely new challenge.

[The Fly]

This is probably NSFW, so I won't post the photo, but there were some absolutely ludicrous scarves being sold outside the ground in Gelsenkirchen, ha!

Did anyone else read that as 'absolutely ludicrous services' after seeing the NSFW tag?

(Clicking the link was a bit disappointing)

[Kingdom]

Let's be honest, Germany were, well they were well below par for World Champions. In general play they can pass it as good as the Spanish team of 4 years ago. But they had no end product.

To be fair to them they're trying to replace Klose, and they're without Basti, Lahm, Howedes, Khedira, Reus, Schuerrle und Kramer, and they still dominated us.

In hindsight, I would still have played Long ahead of Keane, kept Wes and Keane until the end. Wes had a great chance, imagine it was a fresh Keane who had that chance.

Robbie Keane definitely still has a job to do for this team. Whether that's starting against the minnows, or at home to Georgia or Poland (more so than Scotland) and the last quarter against Germany. But let's not ask him to do a job he isn't able to do. Running his leg to the bone with no opportunity to get on the ball is harsh for him.

O'Neill still hasn't hasn't given a concrete indication of what his style is. All 3 competitive games have been different.

No he definitely hasn't given us that. It is possible that he's laid out his ideas to the players though. Until we've done Scotland and Poland will we then be able to put a finger on it. What he has done though, is let the players know that all places are game ball, and if you impress you'll get a chance.

It's infuriated watching Ireland knock it back to Forde continuosly and McGeady not fulfil his potential but that's not the managements fault. Well maybe it is but which management? Arguably it's all the Irish management, from U15 up.

I'd love to see us play football like Germany, Neuer to the fullback, back to Neuer, switch play, full back, midfieder, into Kroos, picking out 30 yard passes. That might happen, but not today or next week.

That's not just Germany, that's most teams now, and really we're in a small group within UEFA who technically are behind. But the question has to be asked are we really technically lacking, and I believe the answer is no. It is either a mentality stance, or it's a tactic from management that requires the ball to be hoofed. If players are brought up that way from 7, nevermind 15 when they get to England, then of course they'll rvert to what they know best when they're under pressure.

A lovely point to get, but I don't thing we are much closer to qualification. It'll still boil down to our games v Poland and Scotland and if we play like that against either, we'll be getting a draw at the most.

I agree with you. I genuinely think people are dismissing the German performance too lightly. Every team in the group so far has created chances against them, that's football. But really they should be sitting top of this group now with 9 points. As luck would have it, they're not. However, they play Gibraltar next, so that's them level already. Whatever we get from Scotland puts us ahead, same with Poland in Georgia. They go to Georgia next, while we face Poland. Chances are they they're ahead of us again by the end of the day. I genuinely can see Germany winning every group game they've got left. Thankfully they've Dublin second to last, which should work in our favour.

Chances are we'll have to win one of those mini-group games. Scotland are in the weakest position (still having to go to Georgia - where they've been derailed previously) and with nothing from Germany.
It wouldn't be a huge surprise to see 6 draws between the three teams, therefore, we'd need to be looking to beat Germany at home to qualify, and if that didn't come to pass, then going to Warsaw and winning would be required.

Timing is everything...

Timing is everything you mad yoke, I was starting to fret, thanks for the ticket again!

I think Wes realised he had very little time to make an impact so was trying too hard. Despite his slips, falls and rubbish throw in, I still think he made a difference. He took up space in the middle to last third that nobody else did and patrolled the line well. McGeady is more effective on the flanks.

Wes could really, and I mean properly, play with and destroy Poland and Scotland, home or away. As you say he naturally takes up positions in the final third, that nobody else does. I don't think that McGeady and himself are in anyway similar though. I think we're finally going to see a system, at some point in this campaign that allows two wingers, and Wes play together, and effectively, by allowing the wingers to drift inwards with Wes free to roam right across that line.

I really really hope now that MON sees that we can cause teams bother by attacking and Trap like cagey nonsense doesnt suit us. We can win in Glasgow if we play to win it.

Absolutely. There are no excuses now. Scotland were on the rack yesterday and hung on. They have nothing in their armoury that we should fear. I don't necessarily think the Scots will be disappointed in drawing next month, nor do I think they're going to take the game to us. I think they'll happily take the point and look to do a smash and grab in Dublin. Given the nature of the two teams and the two countries, it really doesn't fall into home and away matches, until you look at the nature of the two managers. Strachan will know that if they clamp down across the field, they could stifle us. They'll know that with our return game in DUblin sandwiching the Poland visit to Dublin, things should be a lot clearer by then.
If I was Strachan, I'd discount the Germany match, strike it from the list now, and assume that Poland won't take anything Frankfurt. The Scot's know they've still got Poland to come to Glasgow. So the onus is on O'Neill now, and I think he can afford to be adventurous. A win in Glasgow would be huge for the group, and to rack up as many points as early as possible too, because I don't want us to have to go to Poland looking for a win to qualify.

Do we slam O'Neill for not starting these guys or give him credit for making changes that, minus Long, maybe looked a bit suspect? All the subs contributed to us having a real go in the final five to eight minutes.

Credit him, absolutely. He tried Murphy against Gibraltar - it didn't work. That's not O'Neill's fault, but trying Doyle out when he should have given Long another run, that is his fault. I love a manager that will try something different, it shows the manager is thinking outside his comfort zone, so to see him bringing in Hendrick first was a nice surprise.

[Kingdom]

As for a German falling down in the box, I'm glad the ref took the view that if there was no blood or broken limb, there was no foul, regardless of the anguish expressed by the fallen footballer.

I think that was their 4th penalty appeal, and the novelty was wearing thin, but for me, that was a penalty all day long. Wilson cuts in two at the hip, with the hip. I'd need to watch it again, just to see if Podolski was already going to ground before contact was made.

[tricky_colour]

I don't think anybody could argue that with a straight face. He's an out and out right back/wing back.

Having watched the game again, I'm less dispirited than I was watching it on TV last night. We set out with a game plan to frustrate them in our half - which is superficially Trap-like - but the players had a lot more freedom to make decisions and it showed as we looked more comfortable than we did under the previous manager. I think we struggled after Whelan went off - I suspect Kroos wouldn't have had 10 yards to pick his spot otherwise - but as the game drew to a close we gained a lot of composure and were able to exploit their lack of confidence.

The contribution of Kingdom and Stutts as to what was going on off-camera is invaluable, as you do miss things when you're not there (obviously there are some things you see on TV you don't see live as well). It's interesting when commentators pick their man of the match and it doesn't really tally with what you've seen on TV, and I think that might be the case with McClean last night - he was sloppy on the ball but off the ball he did some great work, and I suspect there was a lot more he did that Whelan and Hamilton would have seen from their vantage point but mightn't have been picked up by the cameras.

Our goal was brilliant. I was pleading with Wes not to take the throw-in before our goal after his previous woeful effort, but the German ballboy did us a favour and allowed him to restart the game quickly, and though his cross was overhit (although he was aiming for Hendrick and Gibson (I think) at the back, it was a wonderful piece of technical brilliance and concentration from Hendrick to ease it back into the centre and O'Shea's finish was sublime.

All in all, it wasn't a complete performance and there were some tactical errors (playing a long ball game with Keane and McGeady up front is a mistake that can't be repeated) but ultimately O'Neill read the game correctly and we got the point we went for, and it wasn't down to luck. If anything, our goal was much better worked than anything they came up with bar Goetze's chance that Forde brilliantly saved. Still, Scotland will be a different game and winning away from home against a direct rival will be an entirely new challenge.

I noticed McClean doing some good work, was rather impressed with his work rate he helped us break up their possession they could not settle on the ball, at least not in the final third.
McGeady impressed me too, he was pretty good on the ball looked like he was in control.

[DannyInvincible]

We set out with a game plan to frustrate them in our half - which is superficially Trap-like - but the players had a lot more freedom to make decisions and it showed as we looked more comfortable than we did under the previous manager.

Good point. We also had a plan B, or the ability to try something different when we went behind and plan A no longer offered us any hope of a point. Plan Bs were sorely lacking under Trap. Jesus, Sweden at home was just diabolical.

[DannyInvincible]

I think that was their 4th penalty appeal, and the novelty was wearing thin, but for me, that was a penalty all day long. Wilson cuts in two at the hip, with the hip. I'd need to watch it again, just to see if Podolski was already going to ground before contact was made.

I think Podolski had already lost his balance - he was on the way down through no fault of any fouling Irish player - and you could just as easily say he took Wilson out with him as a result. No penalty for me.

[BonnieShels]

Thought the same Danny. Would have been pretty harsh.

[geysir]

The ref let the game flow and took a positive, proactive view of the tackles that were embellished with a bit of physicality.

[backstothewall]

I think advantage Scotland should have by being at home could be negated by the hype over O'Neill making his return to Celtic Park. The favourite son treatment will be wheeled out for Martin, and it will stand in contrast to Strachan who is viewed more like a ginger step-child. It's an easy narrative for the media, and there will be a lot of Celtic fans very willing to buy into it.

The SFA should have held it at Hampden. They've foolishly levelled the playing field for the sake of a few quid.

[backstothewall]

I think Podolski had already lost his balance - he was on the way down through no fault of any fouling Irish player - and you could just as easily say he took Wilson out with him as a result. No penalty for me.

I agree. I think the booking was harsh. There was no attempt to con the ref into giving a penalty. I think he just went on his arse and then stuck his hands in the air on the off chance

[Charlie Darwin]

I think Podolski had already lost his balance - he was on the way down through no fault of any fouling Irish player - and you could just as easily say he took Wilson out with him as a result. No penalty for me.

He wasn't taken out by Wilson. It was as much a foul by Podolski as it was by Wilson, which is to say neither of them made a foul. It was just two players bumping into one another, only one team was at home and the crowd appealed. The referee was very strong throughout, correctly judging that to be an innocent clash and several German dives to be attempts to fool him. He should have booked one or both of Bellarabi or Goetze for their dives in the box.

[Charlie Darwin]

I agree. I think the booking was harsh. There was no attempt to con the ref into giving a penalty. I think he just went on his arse and then stuck his hands in the air on the off chance

Sticking his hands in the air was the attempt to con the referee.

[geysir]

I think advantage Scotland should have by being at home could be negated by the hype over O'Neill making his return to Celtic Park. The favourite son treatment will be wheeled out for Martin, and it will stand in contrast to Strachan who is viewed more like a ginger step-child. It's an easy narrative for the media, and there will be a lot of Celtic fans very willing to buy into it.

The SFA should have held it at Hampden. They've foolishly levelled the playing field for the sake of a few quid.

O'Neill returning to Celtic park won't matter at all in how it affects him or our team's preparation, neither will Celtic fans' perceptions of their ex-managers, matter in the scheme of things.
I think Celtic Park is being used because of the post commonwealth games. clear-up in Hampden pk.

[ArdeeBhoy]

I think advantage Scotland should have by being at home could be negated by the hype over O'Neill making his return to Celtic Park. The favourite son treatment will be wheeled out for Martin, and it will stand in contrast to Strachan who is viewed more like a ginger step-child. It's an easy narrative for the media, and there will be a lot of Celtic fans very willing to buy into it.

The SFA should have held it at Hampden. They've foolishly levelled the playing field for the sake of a few quid.

Er, the stadium is out of commission due to the Commonwealth Games earlier this year. Plus even Castle Greyskull is generally a better stadium. Hampdump is very mediocre these days.

[mark12345]

I think that was their 4th penalty appeal, and the novelty was wearing thin, but for me, that was a penalty all day long. Wilson cuts in two at the hip, with the hip. I'd need to watch it again, just to see if Podolski was already going to ground before contact was made.

Eh, Podolski was going to ground before contact was made - long before it, so long he was too early to make the nine o'clock news

[SwanVsDalton]

Having watched the game again, I'm less dispirited than I was watching it on TV last night. We set out with a game plan to frustrate them in our half - which is superficially Trap-like - but the players had a lot more freedom to make decisions and it showed as we looked more comfortable than we did under the previous manager.

Absolutely. I've noticed a few people saying it was Trap-like (and obviously Dunphy brayed a stupid soundbite on it at HT)but to me the approaches were totally different. Superficial similarities sure but the way the players used the ball and their commitment to playing it was much changed.

The contribution of Kingdom and Stutts as to what was going on off-camera is invaluable, as you do miss things when you're not there (obviously there are some things you see on TV you don't see live as well). It's interesting when commentators pick their man of the match and it doesn't really tally with what you've seen on TV, and I think that might be the case with McClean last night - he was sloppy on the ball but off the ball he did some great work, and I suspect there was a lot more he did that Whelan and Hamilton would have seen from their vantage point but mightn't have been picked up by the cameras.

Don't agree with that. Can't recall him giving it away much (or at all) besides two poor crosses (he also slung in two great crosses, and the centre for Hoolahan's chance). Quite contrary, he was one of only players in the first half who was using the ball intelligently and positively, often beating a man inside before looking for a pass to feet rather than hoofing or going back to Forde. He was probably our most composed player on the ball for most of the match.

He wasn't taken out by Wilson. It was as much a foul by Podolski as it was by Wilson, which is to say neither of them made a foul. It was just two players bumping into one another, only one team was at home and the crowd appealed. The referee was very strong throughout, correctly judging that to be an innocent clash and several German dives to be attempts to fool him. He should have booked one or both of Bellarabi or Goetze for their dives in the box.

I noticed both Gavin Cummiskey and Brian Kerr in the IT said it was a cast iron peno (Cummiskey wrote that Meyler had tripped him). Didn't see that at all, even from a few replays. Looked like they both came together, Podolski was falling and then decided to throw himself.